BTW, I don't think your dialog was anti-DB. You simply have to have these types of discussions at times - it's how you respond to hearing hurtful things and how you choose to interpret the overall theme.
I think I mentioned to you that your H has a lot in common with my XH, especially on the passive aggressiveness. If you read up on P/A behaviors, you will see your H's picture next to it - as did I. As Job mentioned, they are "taught" to STFU when expressing themselves. I think we discussed your H's childhood rearing. My XH had parents who simply would not allow him to voice any opinion that wasn't positive or agreeable in general. He was instructed and battered into his brain that IT WAS BAD TO SHOW PEOPLE HOW HE FELT. Over time, he learned to associate negative feeling with being deceitful, wrong, you name it.
So instead of speaking how he felt, he agreed with everyone and then did what he wanted. Example, "I'll meet you at XXX at XXX." We'd make solid plans and then he'd not show up. He'd then make a buttload of excuses (all of them not making sense). Much later, he told me that he just didn't feel like doing them. So instead of the possibility of me reacting negatively or pressuring him to do what I wanted, he'd tell me what he thought I wanted to hear and then just do what he wanted. He just wanted to avoid any confrontation.
Although it's up to your H to cure himself of this habit, I took the better part of 3 years inviting my XH to change--at least with me. The main reason I took this job on with me was that I needed to know when he was going to be following up with activities that involved the kids. I started potentially disagreeable conversations with, "It's OK to disagree with me or to tell me no." And I STFU. Gradually, he learned how to be different with me. He's NOT different at work or in his other relationships, however. And when he tells me this, I just point out to him that it's not his responsibility to make other people happy at the expense of his own peace of mind.
Getting back to your very big discussion. I think your subject matter is telling and it was definitely the time to address the elephant blocking the door in your house. Maybe the pleading thing wasn't a good overall move, but then again, maybe it was. Maybe it was actually good for him to see that you want to save your marriage.
Pud, I know you know this... but in order for you to progress, you have to forgive him for his choices and more importantly, forgive yourself for yours. When he tells you this stuff, are you 100% sure you *have* forgiven yourself? There's a lot of hurt here. No matter what he decides to do, you might want to spend more time on that one. And if you truly have exorcised your demons, then that's good. I just know how I feel when someone brings up stuff that I thought was dead and buried. And yes, my XH still does that. He's been gone almost 11 years, yet he still periodically brings up stuff I said or did back in 2002. The difference for me now is that this barn door has been open a long time and the animals are now in Kenya. If he chooses to live with this crap and remind me of it, it can only prevent him from living completely in the now and happily. And sadly, I think his relationships will always be more emotionally stunted than they need to be.
Overall, I think you did a very good job with the information you were given. Maybe the next time, address the ever emotional topic of what it will take to forgive? I'm not suggesting you do this now, though. You've had enough for the month with this one.
Hugs, friend. And I hope you have a good Thanksgiving.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
