Confusion Reigns Part 4

[Feenix]

Pudmuddle and tigerlily:

Yeah, I used to treat my H the same as y'all with regards to respect. (especially with our kids...I don't baby them by any means, but I have tried to soften his approach with them...and I can see how that made him feel like I wasn't respecting him). I realize that I need to change that.

Wish I would have changed that BEFORE all this, though. It's really hard to respect someone who has done the things that H has done.

But, I read the other day that you can respect the "postion" or "office" someone holds even if you don't respect the person. I think I need to approach it like that until I can truly respect him.

Just work on respecting his position as husband and father in our family for now...even if H himself isn't doing things that can be respected.

[Pudmuddle]

I agree with you Ang, that it's hard to respect them when they have done all these crazy things. What I do is try to push that aside and just be in the moment of what is happening. If H and I are discussing S, I think only of that and that outcome, not all the terrible things he has done. If I focus on his acts then I will never move forward on any other situation either.

Just think, he probably doesn't respect himself either very much, and if you can show the slightest effort towards him that you respect him, then you maybe adding to his love bucket and slowly building that back up. It takes a lot of effort when our buckets are so low, but I believe it can be done.

He may think, and I know I am putting a lot of words in his mouth here, if she can respect me with all the crappy stuff I am doing, then I can too. Build it up slowly.

I know it's so hard to believe in this when it is still so traumatic. And especially with your H being so off-the-wall crazy, change the things that you wished you had done better before, not just for him but because it is what you feel is right. Take the time to know what those are and change that about yourself. Be that person.

Don't know if this was much help...just blabbing

[Feenix]

Update:

Ok, uR.....where are you? I need a 2X4.
I just need a "NO TEXTING my H EVER" rule.

The kids and I decided to go out to eat last night. I asked H if he wanted to go. He said no. He was still trying to sleep before work.

I was fine with that...but before I could move away from bed, he started trying to make "moves" on me...I pulled away. Then, he wanted to know why I was being distant and didn't want "any"...luckily, one of the kids came in...and I didn't have to answer.

Kids and I got ready to leave.

H started complaining and griping about random stuff and just being a jerk. He then said something about not wanting to go eat with us. I told him that he'd already told me that....it was fine...and the kids and I were going without him.

I said that I didn’t really care if he went or not…and he said, “Obviously.”

After I left the room, he jumped out of bed...showered and told S12 to tell me to wait, that he was going. Fine. Whatever.

Talk about MOOD SWINGS. Ugh.

He is a complete jerk….pushes me away, etc. but then acts like I should be mothering him and attending to his every need. He keeps having these “poor me” pity parties. It’s starting to really irritate me.

I know the MLCer doesn’t see this…..but he has hurt me so much…and yet, wants me to feel sorry for him. It’s tough to just be nice to him.

At restaurant, H was, again, a total grouch. He started giving me orders in a really hateful tone (actually was NOT usual behavior for him....).

"Get napkins. Get ketchup. Tell waitress we need tea, etc." but in a negative, disrespectful, mean tone.

I finally looked him right in the eye and calmly said, "Do not talk to me like that. If you need something, you can ask nicely."

After that, he didn't talk to me at all. He ate, told kids goodbye and left restaurant.

Then, the texting started.

And it got UGLY again. It's like we can be nice in person, now, but let it all out texting and that isn't good!

He wanted to know why I was acting weird and why I didn't want to have sex with him earlier.

At first, I told him that I didn't want to talk about it.

He kept on bugging me so I told him that he still hadn't moved his two bags and toiletries back home and didn't want me at Thanksgiving...and that I wasn't going to keep having sex with a man who was not showing signs of wanting to continue the marriage. (BAD ANGELA!)

He texted that it shouldn’t be a surprise that he is still unhappy....that I still was "getting my hopes up" about things that are never going to change.

But, then, he told me that he was "trying to work on things"...that he was wanting to cuddle and hold me like I wanted, but that maybe we should stop having sex since I "find him so disgusting".

I don't remember the whole convo but I did tell him that I would move out and find a cheaper place to live, if that would make him happy....I shouldn't have said this because I don't want to move. He then made a comment that it’s typical of me to run off (I HAVE NEVER ran off in any form!).

Finally, we agree to stop texting for a bit and delete all old texts. About five minutes later, we found out from his mom via text that his mamaw was diagnosed yesterday with pancreatic cancer. So, we texted a bit about that (H is really upset by the news)…and I went to bed.

Just a couple of texts today about our S10’s turkey dinner at school.

I’m need to get back to the basics of DBing….and focus on no expectations!!!!

On a good note, I have my first counseling session tomorrow afternoon!!! Yay. That should help.

[Feenix]

I agree with you Ang, that it's hard to respect them when they have done all these crazy things. What I do is try to push that aside and just be in the moment of what is happening. If H and I are discussing S, I think only of that and that outcome, not all the terrible things he has done. If I focus on his acts then I will never move forward on any other situation either.

This is a really great way of looking at it. Take each situation as it is without any history attached to it. And, true, I can't move forward if I'm always thinking like I have been.


I know it's so hard to believe in this when it is still so traumatic. And especially with your H being so off-the-wall crazy, change the things that you wished you had done better before, not just for him but because it is what you feel is right. Take the time to know what those are and change that about yourself. Be that person.

Good reminder! I keep losing sight of this....and it's simple, too, to just work on who I want to be.

Don't know if this was much help...just blabbing

You are always a help!

[tigerlily78]

At first, I told him that I didn't want to talk about it.

He kept on bugging me so I told him that he still hadn't moved his two bags and toiletries back home and didn't want me at Thanksgiving...and that I wasn't going to keep having sex with a man who was not showing signs of wanting to continue the marriage. (BAD ANGELA!)

He texted that it shouldn’t be a surprise that he is still unhappy....that I still was "getting my hopes up" about things that are never going to change.

But, then, he told me that he was "trying to work on things"...that he was wanting to cuddle and hold me like I wanted, but that maybe we should stop having sex since I "find him so disgusting".

I don't remember the whole convo but I did tell him that I would move out and find a cheaper place to live, if that would make him happy....I shouldn't have said this because I don't want to move. He then made a comment that it’s typical of me to run off (I HAVE NEVER ran off in any form!).

Finally, we agree to stop texting for a bit and delete all old texts. About five minutes later, we found out from his mom via text that his mamaw was diagnosed yesterday with pancreatic cancer. So, we texted a bit about that (H is really upset by the news)…and I went to bed.

On a good note, I have my first counseling session tomorrow afternoon!!! Yay. That should help.

I think the bit about "running" is obvious projection. Even the bit about "why are you acting weird" seems like projection in a sense.

Hopefully it will bring you some comfort to know that I have TWICE mentioned to my H that "he should maybe just move out and be with OW full time if that is where he is happy" ... and it didn't provoke any action. And actually after a few days of thinking on it, he ended up admitting that was not what he wanted/was ready to do.

I think in this regard their "poor short term memory" works in our favor. And remember too that if he brings it up you are completely okay to say, "I was angry and reacting from a very emotional place, but I didn't not really mean what I said about moving." It's okay to admit we make mistakes too. If anything it is probably healthy and beneficial... we are taking accountability for our words and actions, and that is something they typically seem to think we are incapable of due to their monstrofication of us. :P

I have taken several opportunities to say, "What I said yesterday/earlier was a reflection of how hurt and angry I was feeling, I need to work on letting those feelings and ideas out in a way that is more respectful and less hurtful."

[tigerlily78]

Well put Pudmuddle! That is a really good insight about showing respect.

I am going to put this post in my super secret notebook for sure.

I am trying very hard to put the negative behaviors on the backburner for now and focus on what's working/going well right now and build on it day by day. And honestly, we all have things we have done that we aren't proud of and would hope those things don't render us completely unworthy of respect for other attributes. Plus, looking forward if our MLC'ers CAN go through this journey, face their demons, recommit to us, and be willing to do the work to make our relationships better than ever in the future... THAT is TOTALLY worthy of respect.

I have to look forward to that potential outcome and realize that the bumpy road to get there is essential. If I judge in this moment, I may be judging prematurely. The process has just begun and the journey has yet to unfold.

[Feenix]

Thanks, tigerlily,

I forgot until I read your post, but I actually did tell him in one of our last texts last night that I didn't want to move out. That I was just upset and hurt. He responded "ok...I'm deleting all these texts anyway so it's like they never happened."

I wondered if it was a mistake to tell him I didn't mean the moving out thing...but see with your comments that it was probably the right thing to do. Glad I told him that.

And, you are right about the judging thing. I wouldn't want to continually be judged by my H on my worst qualities or mistakes.

I guess I'm really scared of being a "doormat" or a "fool" so I'm not being as compassionate as I could be.

[Pudmuddle]

Ok, I'll bite

NO TEXTING H EVER!!!! For awhile I only texted back or to H if it was about logistical stuff with S or other. And short responses. If H felt there was more need for talk or his texts became long or whiny, I would say let's talk about this later. Most of the time in my sitch, he wouldn't bring it up again. And I would never bring it up, I would wait...for him to bring up things if he needed to talk.

Your H is seriously wanting his cake and eating it too. And when you don't respond the way he is used to, he starts whining like a child. This is his Replay child. You saying 'Don't talk to me that way..' was a fabulous way of setting a boundary. This is what we do to kids too. He may need to see more boundaries from you. Start slow, think about small boundaries and see what happens.

You do better than you think. Every time something happens you are regaining composure and practicing your db skills.

And tiger, I am honored I made someone's notebook! Must mean I just might know what the h I'm talking about

[uRworthy]

Update:

Ok, uR.....where are you? I need a 2X4.

I'm here. But be careful what you wish for.

I just need a "NO TEXTING my H EVER" rule.

You know that ^^^^ isnt feasible, right? You have children together.

kids and I decided to go out to eat last night. I asked H if he wanted to go. He said no. He was still trying to sleep before work.

I was fine with that...but before I could move away from bed, he started trying to make "moves" on me...I pulled away. Then, he wanted to know why I was being distant and didn't want "any"...luckily, one of the kids came in...and I didn't have to answer.

Were you really fine with it or did you let him know you werent happy about it?

So, what is your stance on ML? If it is your choice to not ML, then that is a boundary you have to place. I can post some info on bounary setting. But be clear that it is to protect you and not to punish him. If you decide you want to be intimate, then you need to explain to him how you feel about how he goes about it.The thing about a boundary is that you have to not cross it otherwise it is useless.

Kids and I got ready to leave.

H started complaining and griping about random stuff and just being a jerk. He then said something about not wanting to go eat with us. I told him that he'd already told me that....it was fine...and the kids and I were going without him.

I said that I didn’t really care if he went or not…and he said, “Obviously.”

Ok, so, you do know that he is mentally a child right now, right? And so, he is playing the mommy doesnt want me card.

He is a complete jerk….pushes me away, etc. but then acts like I should be mothering him and attending to his every need. He keeps having these “poor me” pity parties. It’s starting to really irritate me.

I know the MLCer doesn’t see this…..but he has hurt me so much…and yet, wants me to feel sorry for him. It’s tough to just be nice to him.

At restaurant, H was, again, a total grouch. He started giving me orders in a really hateful tone (actually was NOT usual behavior for him....).

"Get napkins. Get ketchup. Tell waitress we need tea, etc." but in a negative, disrespectful, mean tone.

I finally looked him right in the eye and calmly said, "Do not talk to me like that. If you need something, you can ask nicely."

After that, he didn't talk to me at all. He ate, told kids goodbye and left restaurant.

So, he tried really hard to get your attention and mommy reprimanded him. I think I would have just said, please do not speak to me in that way.

Then, the texting started.

I'm thinking that after all of that, I would not have texted. You knew where that was going to go, right?

And it got UGLY again.

Ayep. It's gonna keep getting ugly until you can get a handle of your emotions. He cant, he is a teenager right now. So, its got to be you.

It's like we can be nice in person, now, but let it all out texting and that isn't good!

Nope, not good at all. So, why do you keep getting pulled in? You dont have to answer him or respond unless it is an emergency, right? If he gets angry, he gets angry. His problem.

He wanted to know why I was acting weird and why I didn't want to have sex with him earlier.

At first, I told him that I didn't want to talk about it.

He kept on bugging me so I told him that he still hadn't moved his two bags and toiletries back home and didn't want me at Thanksgiving...and that I wasn't going to keep having sex with a man who was not showing signs of wanting to continue the marriage. (BAD ANGELA!)

Um, yea. So, then you started acting like a teenager. Stamping your feet and telling him why you were punishing him with sex.

He texted that it shouldn’t be a surprise that he is still unhappy....that I still was "getting my hopes up" about things that are never going to change.

But, then, he told me that he was "trying to work on things"...that he was wanting to cuddle and hold me like I wanted, but that maybe we should stop having sex since I "find him so disgusting".

Yea, he is in crazyville. Population - him.

I don't remember the whole convo but I did tell him that I would move out and find a cheaper place to live, if that would make him happy....I shouldn't have said this because I don't want to move. He then made a comment that it’s typical of me to run off (I HAVE NEVER ran off in any form!).

Oh, Ang. Never say those words again. Hes unhappy, he can go. And the projection movie is in full force right there.

Finally, we agree to stop texting for a bit and delete all old texts. About five minutes later, we found out from his mom via text that his mamaw was diagnosed yesterday with pancreatic cancer. So, we texted a bit about that (H is really upset by the news)…and I went to bed.

Just a couple of texts today about our S10’s turkey dinner at school.

I’m need to get back to the basics of DBing….and focus on no expectations!!!!


Sorry about his mamaw. Ang, this stuff isnt going to stop until you decide to get off the merry go round. You cant worry if he is going to get mad. Your job is this. Every day you be your best you. Some days you'll make it, some you wont, but that should always be your goal. He is manipulating you because he can. You need to leave him to walk his journey. You need to get out of the way. Not your problem if he chooses to act like an as$. You just keep being who you want to be. So, detaching, again, is that his words and actions do not affect your words and actions.

On a good note, I have my first counseling session tomorrow afternoon!!! Yay. That should help.

That is great news!

[BrightFuture]

Angela, I think you have a better chance to DB your H than some of us here. He obviously reacts to the less attention from you. And he is testing you all the time. Just stand strong.

I was going to jump into the conversation about the trust, but I guess I missed the opportunity. I trusted H with my son, rarely intervening in his decisions. I though he knew what he was doing. Now, looking back, I regret that I didn’t trust my feelings and my instincts on some of the things. My son actually confirmed to me lately that what H was going to discipline him was not working, just in opposite, it was prompting a more rebellious response. I also keep having this thought that I failed my son by not questioning H’s methods. Part of it was also trying to keep piece with H. Well, what now? My H abandoned me in spite of my cooperation and respect for his decisions, and my son is here for me, helping and supporting me in any way he can. Sorry for being off topic. I will try to catch up.