One question about counseling. I had asked W if she thought that seeing an individual counselor about her depression and general unhappiness would help. She wasn't sure, but thought that it might.
I don't want to push the issue on her, but how do I hint that it may be to her benefit in helping out what she really wants, or what will make her happy (this means with , or without me, which is why i say her benefit)
She has had past issues that she doesn't like to talk about, but I know have been carried with her all her life.
Her dad had an A when she was 9, and her parents divorced. Her Mom has depression issues as well as happyness issues, no matter who she is with, and tends to be very needy.
She is always conflicted on where to spend holidays, she doesn't want to make her mom or dad feel put out.
I think that seeing a counselor of her own might help her work through some of these issues. How do i approach her without making it sound like another "marriage fix"
Her mental state is not yours to own, particularly while separated. Depending on the therapist, many are quick to advise divorcing and moving forward to combat unhappiness which is not DB. It can do more harm to your marriage than good. If she wants to see a therapist that is up to her, you should stay out of it. Suggesting it to her may imply to her that you think she is broken in some way, just stay away from it.
You may choose to make MC a condition for having her move back in (or start staying overnight), but YOU should meet with several MC's alone and prep them on what you hope to accomplish. Do not just jump in the pool with an unknown MC and trust your goals will be met.
WRT W coming by and staying over, the goal here is to protect yourself emotionally so set the boundaries you need to set. Insisting on some family therapy to help you co-parent or MC to work on communication skills specifically wouldn't be an unreasonable request. If she does sleep over it should not be in your bed, IMO
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
W called while i was at work, she was on lunch break. Seemed like she actually wanted to talk to me. We had a nice 10 min conversation.
Picked up D from daycare after work and we went grocery shopping. (picked up some ingredients to make carrot cake and cream cheese frosting! yum)
I made dinner, W asked if it was ok for her to stay. While i was cleaning the kitchen my W started talking to me. She said "do you know what made me mad? When i left the house on Sunday, the way we kissed made me feel like you just wanted to have sex with me. and all I thought was here he goes again, just wanting me for sex".
I was really taken aback. I couldn't believe that this is how I had made her feel. She was literally leaving my life and we were holding eachother so tight.
But i thought about DB, and what i normally do. I would normally have said, well you shouldn't have felt that way, I was just saying goodbye.
Instead I stopped, gathered myself, and told her that i understood that I had made her feel this way, and that I was sorry.
And then she thanked me.
I wouldn't say the rest of the night was great by any means, but I felt like I was able to avoid the R talk, while validating her feelings.
I left her alone and went into our room and laid down to read. She came in about 10 minutes later and asked if I wanted to come out in the living room and read next to her.
I ended up going out in the living room, but made sure to give her space, I didn't try to sit right next to her, but i was within proximity.
She did end up sleeping in our bed, but I made sure to keep at a distance.
This morning we had a small kiss goodbye, but I made sure to not indicate any sexual advance what so-ever.
She still has this feeling, that everything I do is to have sex with her. I just want her in my life.
You did a great job of not arguing with her when she said she thought you just wanted to have sex with her.
I don't want to try to mind read, but I wonder whether she really means that. What a weird thing to say, when she is moving out of your house. ??
In any event, that was good that you kept your distance - you are doing what she has asked, and she certainly can't claim you just wanted to have sex with her.
Keep up the good work!
me: 44 XH: 42 M 11 years D10 and S8 Bomb drop 9/27/13 D final 7/1/14
If she truly feels like every attempt at affection, or my changes are about having sex with her, are their things that i can do differently?
I know I need to do 180's and GAL. But when i'm speaking with her, do I need to try and engage her intellectual side more? show her that what she thinks, and feels is more important to me than her body or having sex with her?
But i thought about DB, and what i normally do. I would normally have said, well you shouldn't have felt that way, I was just saying goodbye.
Instead I stopped, gathered myself, and told her that i understood that I had made her feel this way, and that I was sorry.
And then she thanked me.
AWESOME JOB OF VALIDATION!!! The thing with validation is that you may not agree with what she said, but you don't have to. It is about letting her know you understand her FEELINGS. And her response is a typical one to good validation, instead of this turning into a nasty argument she THANKED you! I bet it felt great, didn't it? There's an old saying around here- do you want to be right or do you want to be happily married? A lot of times we have to swallow our pride in the interest of making peace.
What is the history on the "you just want me for sex" complaint? First time you've heard it or long-running issue?
She has said this in the past too. I used to play on my computer a lot, and believed that I would only come to bed when i wanted to have sex with her. So now she says she has this aversion to me, like any time i want to touch her, I automatically just want to have sex with her.
Thanks AS, Validating her feelings was very new, and it did feel good!
Last night was not good. She came over to watch D while i went to see my trainer in the gym.
She told me that she might look for an apartment near our house. This made me very ... sad/emotional/angry.
I guess when she said she wanted a trial separation, i thought it would be her staying at her friends house. When she brought up renting an apartment (3/6/12mo) lease it felt so much more real. So much more permanent.
We kind of went back and forth for a bit, but i finallyl dropped the big question.
(Financials are a big issue right now) So I asked, If we had the money, RIGHT NOW (which we could get) Would you file for divorce?.
She said NO. I would not. I don't know if i want to divorce you, I don't know what i want, i'm confused.
I Thanked her for being honest, gave her a hug, and left to go work out. While i was gone, she cleaned the bathrooms, my daughters room, and did a load of laundry. I Thanked her and told her how much i appreciated her help.
She left shortly after to go stay at her friends. She called me about 30 minutes later and sounded happy, she said that she really appreciated how i saw that she had cleaned.
When she came back this morning to pick up D she again mentioned, how much she appreciated the fact that I had noticed she cleaned and then thanked her for it.
So it was a bad/good night. Obviously I made mistakes. My copy of DR showed up yesterday so I was able to read the first chapter.
I can help you with the "you only want sex" complaint. That's a fairly common issue you describe. Men often experience intimacy and connection through sex, women stereotypically experience intimacy and connection more through conversation and quality time. If you weren't doing the quality time but still pursuing the sex, they will feel the relationship is empty and they're just being used, not realizing that you believe you are emotionally connecting with them because that's what you are taking away from it. (i.e. you can't see the piece that's missing from their perspective)
So what do you do about it? Validate, as you have done. Read "The Five Love Languages" if you have not. The bottom line is that people "receive love" on different channels, but tend to always send it on the same channel they receive it. If your style doesn't match your spouse, what you consider to be your loving gestures are missing the mark.
The other thing to do about it near term is to be very careful to never escalate intimacy. If she holds your hand, hold her hand but don't hug her. If she hugs you, hug her back but don't kiss her. etc. etc. You can mirror, but you cannot take things up a notch. Tell her that this will be your rule. This will help her to feel "safe", that she can connect with you physically but not worry that it will flip your "we're heading to the bedroom" switch.
That's your path back, to establish some physical connection while having her feel safe that it won't be reciprocated with an advance.
Longer term, you have to do the quality time. TV off, no distractions, looking her in the eye and speaking to her for some period of time every day, regardless of whether or not it leads to sex. You should also make it a point to go to bed at the same time as a rule. If you can do that, then the "you only want me for sex" complaint should disappear on it's own.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Definitely a lot of good advice there. One question i have for you. I know I obviously do not show her the DR book, but would it ever be a good idea to show her the 5LL book? Or suggest it as a read?
Or is that something I would do if/when she decides she wants to reconcile?
[quote] Longer term, you have to do the quality time. TV off, no distractions, looking her in the eye and speaking to her for some period of time every day, regardless of whether or not it leads to sex. You should also make it a point to go to bed at the same time as a rule. If you can do that, then the "you only want me for sex" complaint should disappear on it's own.
[quote]
I have been doing this since I learned that this was an issue. Every chance I get, i go to bed with her. But now she is not living at home... much harder to go to bed with her, and I know that when I started to really pay attention to her she said to stop suffocating her. So i'm in the balance mode.
One other thing that i find very strange, is that when she is talking to me, I look into her eyes, and truly listen to her, she gets mad and says "why are you staring at me"
Am i doing something wrong?
Any thoughts on the rest of my previous post? Thanks,
