Becoming PatientMan IV - It Is Well With My Soul

[PatientMan]

XW keeps saying she misses me. She called me today and told me the same, justifying it with the fact that I told her long ago she could tell me these things (vent to me) and not worry about what she would think my reaction would be (her leading me on, giving me false hope, etc. with the WAS script).

So I made some time today and we met for lunch. No kids around. No expectations. No R talk. It was nice.

-PM

[jp787]

That is AWESOME PM!

[PatientMan]

I am enjoying this discussion and have thus brought it over to my own thread. If you are not, let me know and I will cease.

PM, just a final word...or 2 and then lets allow Planet to get what he needs.

About the child running into the street, apples and oranges. You don't have to hit a child to keep him/her out of the street. You changed somewhere in there from physical violence to physical intervention.

I changed the term because the term you used offended me, and I am not easily offended. You very first response to the issue of spanking was:

"Physical violence is physical violence."

I took that to mean spanking and other forms of physically disciplining a child to be "violence."

I looked up the definition of the word "violence":

behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.

Synonyms: brutality, ferocity, savagery, cruelty, sadism, barbarity

Do you understand why I would take offense to what I - and many - view as reasonable parenting being labeled as "violent"? Do you think those that responsibly spank (or use other physically-based methods) intend to hurt, damage, or kill their children using brutality, ferocity, savagery, cruelty, sadism, and barbarity?

Responsible parents correct out of love, not out of any of those words.

So yes, I changed the term to one I felt was much more appropriate: "intervention" or "correction", because I am certainly not "violent" with my children, by definition.

I never said I wouldn't physically intervene in an extreme circumstance but let's face it most of life isn't made up of extreme circumstances.

My point of you protecting your child from harming himself or someone else - taking the argument to its logical extreme - is a common test to determine the integrity of the argument being presented. As you agreed, physical intervention/correction is absolutely necessary and proper in certain cases.

We can change the terms you used to something other than "violence" and likely agree, or we can stick with the phrase "physical violence is physical violence" if we agree that, using your idiom, we are comparing apples and oranges and that phrase does not apply to responsible spanking and thus doesn't really apply to the thread.

I'm sorry for the abuse you suffered. Do you truly believe that hasn't affect your adult life?

Of course it did, as did so many other aspects any person experiences while growing up. Do you think I spank (which I have repeatedly admitted is extremely rare) because I was "abused", as you put it?

You didn't ask me if I think it negatively affected my adult life, to which my answer is "no." In fact, you didn't even ask me if I thought I was "abused" and "suffered." In response to a request you are about to make in the next quote, please don't mind-read me.

I'd ask that you don't speak for me or mindread me. I'm very capable of speaking for myself and I'm usually pretty clear about what I think.

Fair enough. I made a supposition to your answer so that I could further my point. It seemed like a more than reasonable supposition, but my apologies if you took offense that I presumed your answer. I was trying to speed up the process of making my point instead of waiting for what I thought would be your obvious answer.

There was no disrespect intended in that presumption. I value your opinion and know you are a reasonable woman with valid opinions and the conviction to share them candidly.

My views on this are out of the realm of opinion because there's a lot of solid research to back them up.

Agreed. Most notably, I encourage you to look at the crime and incarceration rates of young men who didn't have a solid father figure in their lives. Those were the statistics I spoke to.

I am certainly not disagreeing that there are numerous parenting methods, some of which include no physical correction, I just disagree that those methods are ideal solely for the reason that they don't include that physical contact. Correlation does not imply causation.

I hope that clears my position up. I am not "violent" with my children, but you are certainly entitled to your own opinion and to disagree with me there if you truly think otherwise.

You have raised tremendous young men. I am raising tremendou young women. We are utilizing slightly different parenting tactics in very rare moments in the context of parenthood. Clearly there is more than one way to skin a cat.

-PM

[RockJC]

Patient man - Thanks for posting the "It is well with my soul" story. When my mom was going through breast cancer, this was one of her favorite stories and songs. We talked about it many times. It gave her strength. When she finally passed, i knew that it was well with her soul.

This story makes my trials seem small and my faith even smaller. It is good to be reminded of that.

[labug]

PM,

You and I see the world very differently and I don't base that solely on this discussion.

All the best to you and your Ds, truly.

[PatientMan]

PM,

You and I see the world very differently and I don't base that solely on this discussion.

There aren't many people who I would care what figuring out what this comment means, but from you, I find that I do. And that is truly based out of nothing but respect for you as I have come to know you here on this MB.

Please take that as a compliment and not as some sort of bait to engage in a potentially fruitless internet debate. When I log-in here and see that you have posted - not just in my threads - I pick those posts to read first.

All the best to you and your Ds, truly.

Thank you, and to you as well. I humbly follow your journey (now piecing) and learn from you, especially about control and acceptance.

My apologies for failing to communicate well through written word.

God bless,

-PM

[PatientMan]

Patient man - Thanks for posting the "It is well with my soul" story. When my mom was going through breast cancer, this was one of her favorite stories and songs. We talked about it many times. It gave her strength. When she finally passed, i knew that it was well with her soul.

This story makes my trials seem small and my faith even smaller. It is good to be reminded of that.

Thank you for sharing. You warmed my heart.

And you are dead-center correct: how humbling that story is.

-PM

[PatientMan]

Made progress on some projects this weekend. All four beds are now in my home and two of them have full bedding on (I couldn't find the right bedding for the two beds in the other room... still looking - been to 4 stores). The girls' bathroom is almost complete, but fully functional.

Two weeks of school left! And one final paper due today.

While I was out shopping for the home items yesterday evening, XW called and asked if I wanted to write my paper up there at her house (I took that to mean she wanted me around given how her day had gone - rough).

I turned the offer down. *sigh*

-PM

[AnotherStander]

I turned the offer down. *sigh*

Why? For a legitimate reason or just because you think it's the proper DB response? If you did it for DB'ing, keep in mind that in DB'ing while you shouldn't accept ALL invitations you should accept SOME of them.

[PatientMan]

I turned the offer down. *sigh*

Why? For a legitimate reason or just because you think it's the proper DB response? If you did it for DB'ing, keep in mind that in DB'ing while you shouldn't accept ALL invitations you should accept SOME of them.

I feel like me heading up there would have been feeding her addiction - her admitted dependency on me. And as much as I wanted to go, I want to love her as best I can and help her reach her also admitted long term goal of being "okay" without me.

I wanted to go. I want to make her feel better. I like swooping in and "saving the day". I like showing up and taking some of the load of off XW and spending some more time with my ladies. All that comes naturally to me and it's how I tend to show my love for others: actions.

I did not make that decision cavalierly.

I realize she may be reaching out to me and perhaps my rejection of that request will have negative results down the line. However, like a drug addict, I don't want to be a quick fix that makes her feel better in the moment, but doesn't fix her long term issue.

Does that make sense?

I emphatically welcome anyone and everyone to opine on this. I'd love to hear both male and female perspectives - my sitch is well documented. I am open to hearing ideas and opinions that I may be overlooking.

I know my sitch is seasoned, but tell me what you think! Give me perspectives to consider!

I am always learning and always striving to be open-minded. I stand firm in my convictions, but I want to make sure my convictions are honorable and based out of love.

AS, thanks for your post and holding me accountable.

-PM