Hi all. I'm new here.

[2ndTimeHurt]

"Can somebody tell me not to ask about her damn phone. Yell at me even. Tell me it's the stupidest thing I can do. No good comes out of it."

You posted this on one of your first posts...

"I had anger issues which I've worked really hard on changing. Through counseling and many self help books and podcasts, I've successfully changed that behavior."

That is your problem right there. You continue to say that you've cahnged, etc. but you really haven't. Many of the things that you've just posted contradict what you said were "fixed" in your first post. It takes more than a year for changes to take place for life.

Maybe I'm wrong here or maybe I'm not, when I say change I don't mean fixed to the point of perfection. I'm only human and will make mistakes. What I mean by change is that I no longer go into rage mode. My counselor says I'm allowed to get angry, even voice my anger. It's how I deal with it that has changed.

I don't quite understand how you correlated my comment of her phone to my past anger issues. Maybe you could clarify that for me. I didnt go into a rage and accuse her of having inappropriate texts. I simply said "woah, you're texting a lot". I even said it with a tone of humor and playfulness. Which still came across as a judgement to her, but that's for her to decide how she views my comment.

I've also been in counseling for 2 years so I'm well aware changes take a long time to stick. Finding faults within yourself is a lifelong process and I'm well on my way down the right path. Do I still have issues? Sure, we all do. Am I aware of them? Sure most of them. Am I trying to "fix" them? Yes I am, but I do have greater difficulties with some of them.

My rage mode is the least of my concerns and my W agrees completely that I've changed in that regard. I diffuse rather than escalate arguments. Between the 2 of us, she is now the aggressor. And she's aware of that too. She will invalidate my thoughts, yell and scream and call me names, but I don't view it as abuse like she did. Our sensitivity levels regarding abuse are just different.

The person I am now is completely different from who I was. So ya, I've changed. I haven't changed everything so I can kind of agree with you there. But you can't say that I haven't really changed. Wait, I guess YOU can. YOU are free to judge and decide what I have and haven't accomplished. It's your right to do so. I, on the other hand won't take it personally.

I know I may come across as whatever it is you see me as during a moment of weakness, but I know that I have improved myself.

[MrBond]

""I don't quite understand how you correlated my comment of her phone to my past anger issues. "

Because you are typing your story, you left out alot of details and so I can only go based on what you wrote. You typed... "During the relationship it pissed me off that she was always on her phone." and "Can somebody tell me not to ask about her damn phone. "

Just from reading that, it seemed like your anger issues resurfaced. You never explained that it was your "RAGE" issues that you supposedly corrected. You actually never mentioned rage issues before.

Anger is anger. It's how you deal with it that's important. Women have long memories. She'll say that she sees you changed but nonetheless it could have been the thing that planted a seed of doubt in her mind.

You can't keep posting here and get defensive when you haven't detailed your whole story.

[2ndTimeHurt]

""I don't quite understand how you correlated my comment of her phone to my past anger issues. "

Because you are typing your story, you left out alot of details and so I can only go based on what you wrote. You typed... "During the relationship it pissed me off that she was always on her phone." and "Can somebody tell me not to ask about her damn phone. "

Just from reading that, it seemed like your anger issues resurfaced. You never explained that it was your "RAGE" issues that you supposedly corrected. You actually never mentioned rage issues before.

Anger is anger. It's how you deal with it that's important. Women have long memories. She'll say that she sees you changed but nonetheless it could have been the thing that planted a seed of doubt in her mind.

You can't keep posting here and get defensive when you haven't detailed your whole story.

Gotcha. It's hard to tell the whole story. There's just so much of it.

Anyway, when I say pisssed. I mean pissed inside. I'm not showing anger but instead I'm realizing the feelings come over me so I take deep breaths and relax. Nevertheless I am pissed.

Maybe I need to explain further. Everybody gets angry, some more than others. I still get angry, it's a normal feeling. Rage on the other hand seems like it's only normal in a life or death situation. I obviously had to get my rage under control and it's my bad that I used the word anger instead of rage. I just didnt think there was such a thing as rage management. Anyway, my W was emotionally and physically abused in the past. Me being the way that I was just pushed her over the edge. I just want to make clear that I went into rage mode about 4-5 times during our 4.5 years together. Regardless, that's still too many to go into rage. I think still might have to make myself clear. My rage wasn't throwing stuff or calling her rude names. It was just a huge build up of emotion escalated from horrible communicating and frustration. It doesn't make me feel any better, I just want to paint a real picture of how I was. I wasn't over the top crazy but I also had a piss poor way of dealing with frustration.

Also I'm not trying to sound defensive. I'm just trying my best to tell my story as it was.

So ya, I was a douche, she wasn't perfect either, she had enough and left, I looked at myself and tried my best to become a better person, I'm aware it's a lifelong process.

About me saying I wanted someone to tell me to stop asking about her damn phone... I knew I was wrong I just wanted some reassurance that I was in fact wrong. You know, motivation. Kinda like, "hey idiot, stop asking about her phone. You know she's gonna get upset. No good is gonna come from it!"

It really feels like we are not on the same page regarding these posts. From my point of view, it feels like I'm being attacked and you think I'm being defensive when I'm actually trying to tell my story as best as I can. I hope I'm wrong though.

[2ndTimeHurt]

Hi there 2TH,
This evidently is my first post also, so not sure if it'll show up. I think I can finally contribute to something on here (been reading and studying since August)
My H is always on his phone and yes it is also a trigger for me as I found out he was having an affair and yes of course all on his phone as OW was a 3 hour flight away. So it was hyped up on fb messaging and texting.
I feel like I may possibly be down the road a little and be able to offer some insight….
What I did - When I seen H on phone - I walked the opposite direction and pretended it didn't bother me. (this actually can become a game, I let him see my disinterest sometimes) I found a few spots in my house (like the toilet) and said to myself 'I am only in control of my own actions, one day they will realise what they are doing (how rude they are) and then they will need to address their own emotions tied to that. I choose to be a respectful and admirable person and I will show this in my actions not my words' believe it or not after a while you start believing yourself and get a little kick out of it.
Lets be honest people don't respond by you telling them what to do, they see others behaving a certain way and treating them in a certain way and they mirror this behaviour. I can now tell you with experience that although this phone business has not stopped he now only plays games on there in open viewing and actually involves me in the things he sees on fb. When we talk he actually puts the phone down and looks at me when we speak. I'm still getting used to it.

Other things I do. I detach myself from my phone while he is around on purpose (the action thing). But I also post more on fb while he is gone as I know he is on there. I use this little vice to help show that I have got a life. A little cheeky sometimes but he has mentioned about everything I have posted so it actually makes me feel like the interest in me is still there. (I found out how to get a little back out of this situation :-) when he says something I downsize like 'oh yeah I forgot I posted that' like its not the only thing happening in my life.

I felt like I started to play his game back a little which I did not do before but still showed respect in my actions. I have even gone as far as telling him I will always show respect to him whether he deserves it or not as it is a choice I make as a person to have these qualities. Hope this offers something. Good luck!

[working out still how to do a signature but it will go something like this]
Me 31 H 31
D 6
S 4
S 8mth
OW bomb dropped july sometime

Never allow kindness be misinterpreted for weakness.
Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself.

Thanks for the reply and advice. I know intellectually what I'm supposed to do. Sometimes I need a kick in the butt to stay on track.

I don't know your story but I hope things are on the up and up!!

[MrBond]

"Also I'm not trying to sound defensive. "

"she wasn't perfect either,"

Being defensive.

"It really feels like we are not on the same page regarding these posts. From my point of view, it feels like I'm being attacked and you think I'm being defensive"

Go back and read the posts. You're not being "attacked" that's just how YOU CHOOSE to interpret what is being said.

You're the one that wrote those things, not me. In your writings you do come across as defensive. The key to successful DBing is to REALLY comprehend what is being explained to you by looking at the other POV.

[2ndTimeHurt]

"Also I'm not trying to sound defensive. "

"she wasn't perfect either,"

Being defensive.

"It really feels like we are not on the same page regarding these posts. From my point of view, it feels like I'm being attacked and you think I'm being defensive"

Go back and read the posts. You're not being "attacked" that's just how YOU CHOOSE to interpret what is being said.

You're the one that wrote those things, not me. In your writings you do come across as defensive. The key to successful DBing is to REALLY comprehend what is being explained to you by looking at the other POV.

I obviously haven't explained everything regarding my story. I also said it "feels" like I'm being attacked. I have seen from my W's point of view. That's why I'm continuing to find things about me to change. I've been looking for 2 years and she hasn't at all. My counselor calls my w immature. She was not perfect, fact. And what I mean by perfect is that she does have serious issues. Issues I've tried explaining but it seems like her being depressed and suicidal is my fault too?

Also, how does me saying she wasn't perfect either, an example of me being defensive? You calling me something that I'm not is an attack. It seems you are just picking and choosing things from my posts. After i said im not trying to sound defensive, i wrote "I'm just trying my best to tell my story as it was". I'm being as honest as I can to illustrate what exactly went on in my relationship.

I have aquired lots of tools over the last couple of years. I'm just looking to gather more info here. I'm free to post here if I want regardless if you think I'm being defensive. I have already gained some insight from other posters.

Your very first post didnt help at all. Telling me that people here are regular people who are not obligated to post. Telling me to understand that right off the bat. Obviously I'm choosing to view your comment as rude just like you chose to view my comment about no responses as me being impatient. My comment was only in response to me getting responses while on moderation and people asking if I'm still here. I thought it was kinda funny.

[2ndTimeHurt]

Mrbond....

Based on what I've written, what would you recommend I do? Or what do you think my faults are? Things I need to understand? Are there things you think I'm misunderstanding?

I'm saying these things with sincerity not sarcasm.

During our 14 month break, I was on another forum and sought after posters who are not scared to say the hard truth. In fact some of them were flat out rude. But I've become friends with some of them and they helped me. They actually went against the grain with me and actually saw hope. They didnt tell me to give up like they usual tell people. I was floored because I was expecting the same.

You seem like the same type of guy who isn't scared to call a guy out. If I can get some insights from you, that would be a plus in my books.

[MrBond]

"Also, how does me saying she wasn't perfect either, an example of me being defensive? You calling me something that I'm not is an attack."

Then you don't fully understand your situation. When you mention ANYTHING about something that is a fault or deficiency that you see in her, you take the focus away from you. It lessens the importance of your part in the downfall of your M. You may not think it does, but a little comment here and there can build to resentment and sometimes compartmentalization on your part.

Again, not an attack, but you just chose to see it that way. Just an observation. When you disagree with your W, do you see it as "attacks" as well? I think to a certain degree you do. It's like the cell phone issue. You got mad for her use o the cell phone even though it wasn't hurting you in any way. You CHOSE to get upset. It doesn't matter that you diffused it, what matters is that you got angry in the first place.

"It seems you are just picking and choosing things from my posts."

You'll find out that after awhile, everyone's posts are the same. What you need to do is see the parts that stand out that give an indication of an emotion or attitude.

"After i said im not trying to sound defensive, i wrote "I'm just trying my best to tell my story as it was". I'm being as honest as I can to illustrate what exactly went on in my relationship."

That's YOUR POV of what went on in your relationship. Even though your W told you that she agrees with you, etc. to your face, what she might write down here or tell her friends might be totally different. It's important to note that.

"I have aquired lots of tools over the last couple of years. I'm just looking to gather more info here. I'm free to post here if I want regardless if you think I'm being defensive."

Again, this was a defensive comment from you. No one said you couldn't post or criticized you, etc. However you escalated a simple observation I made into a defensive stance.

"I have already gained some insight from other posters."

Which is the beauty of this forum. You get insights that you never realized before.

"Your very first post didnt help at all. Telling me that people here are regular people who are not obligated to post. Telling me to understand that right off the bat. Obviously I'm choosing to view your comment as rude just like you chose to view my comment about no responses as me being impatient. "

You did sound impatient. Again, it's what you wrote that gave that tone. What my comment did, however, was allow you to clarify your point which is how you should be detailing your ongoing sitch.

I will tell you one friendly word of advice. You will get alot of advice that you may not agree with. I encourage you to learn from those posts as well. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean that it's wrong or doesn't have merit.

[2ndTimeHurt]

"Also, how does me saying she wasn't perfect either, an example of me being defensive? You calling me something that I'm not is an attack."

Then you don't fully understand your situation. When you mention ANYTHING about something that is a fault or deficiency that you see in her, you take the focus away from you. It lessens the importance of your part in the downfall of your M. You may not think it does, but a little comment here and there can build to resentment and sometimes compartmentalization on your part.

Again, not an attack, but you just chose to see it that way. Just an observation. When you disagree with your W, do you see it as "attacks" as well? I think to a certain degree you do. It's like the cell phone issue. You got mad for her use o the cell phone even though it wasn't hurting you in any way. You CHOSE to get upset. It doesn't matter that you diffused it, what matters is that you got angry in the first place.

"It seems you are just picking and choosing things from my posts."

You'll find out that after awhile, everyone's posts are the same. What you need to do is see the parts that stand out that give an indication of an emotion or attitude.

"After i said im not trying to sound defensive, i wrote "I'm just trying my best to tell my story as it was". I'm being as honest as I can to illustrate what exactly went on in my relationship."

That's YOUR POV of what went on in your relationship. Even though your W told you that she agrees with you, etc. to your face, what she might write down here or tell her friends might be totally different. It's important to note that.

"I have aquired lots of tools over the last couple of years. I'm just looking to gather more info here. I'm free to post here if I want regardless if you think I'm being defensive."

Again, this was a defensive comment from you. No one said you couldn't post or criticized you, etc. However you escalated a simple observation I made into a defensive stance.

"I have already gained some insight from other posters."

Which is the beauty of this forum. You get insights that you never realized before.

"Your very first post didnt help at all. Telling me that people here are regular people who are not obligated to post. Telling me to understand that right off the bat. Obviously I'm choosing to view your comment as rude just like you chose to view my comment about no responses as me being impatient. "

You did sound impatient. Again, it's what you wrote that gave that tone. What my comment did, however, was allow you to clarify your point which is how you should be detailing your ongoing sitch.

I will tell you one friendly word of advice. You will get alot of advice that you may not agree with. I encourage you to learn from those posts as well. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean that it's wrong or doesn't have merit.

Thanks.

I do agree with a lot of what you're saying. I also have to disagree to a couple points. I'm probably not explaining myself correctly which is something I'm always trying to improve.

You mentioned this, "You can't keep posting here and get defensive when you haven't detailed your whole story." I'm sorry for not going into all the details. I figured I'd give a decent description and then fill in the blanks as the thread grew. I'm actually being consciously aware that I'm trying to post without defensiveness. That seems to be the trouble with text. It's very hard to distinguish tone.

"Then you don't fully understand your situation. When you mention ANYTHING about something that is a fault or deficiency that you see in her, you take the focus away from you. It lessens the importance of your part in the downfall of your M. You may not think it does, but a little comment here and there can build to resentment and sometimes compartmentalization on your part."

During our couples counseling my w said she spent the 14 months doing everything but work on her issues. That's exactly what I did for 14 months. I looked at my part of the downfall. During couples counseling it felt like I had to rehash my part again. We all know my part. The reason I mention anything about her is because she knows she has problems and because I care about her, I want to support her in anyway I can. She has asked me for help. So when I post something about her "faults" it's because I'm aware of her issues. I know she's the only one that can help herself which makes this so confusing. She felt suicidal, how am I supposed to respond? I know I'm supposed to look at myself, but at this point I want to make sure she's at least "there" for our son.

"Again, not an attack, but you just chose to see it that way. Just an observation. When you disagree with your W, do you see it as "attacks" as well? I think to a certain degree you do. It's like the cell phone issue. You got mad for her use o the cell phone even though it wasn't hurting you in any way. You CHOSE to get upset. It doesn't matter that you diffused it, what matters is that you got angry in the first place."

Honestly I don't feel attacked. This is so weird because you are describing my w. she describes herself this way. I did not get angry this time time for her cell phone. I felt hurt and disrespected and because I knew I have no right to ask her to get off her phone I made a stupid comment (woah, you're texting a lot). She got furious with me because she thought I was being paranoid. I understand I chose to get upset. Like I said there are some situations where I have more difficulty.

She's out right now playing pool with that guy she had casual sex with. I'm not bothered at all right now. In fact I told her to have fun. I'm choosing to not get upset.

"I will tell you one friendly word of advice. You will get alot of advice that you may not agree with. I encourage you to learn from those posts as well. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean that it's wrong or doesn't have merit."

I agree with that comment.

"That's YOUR POV of what went on in your relationship. Even though your W told you that she agrees with you, etc. to your face, what she might write down here or tell her friends might be totally different. It's important to note that."

I sort of have an advantage over some of the people here. During the 14 months she repeatedly told me from her point of view. That's one of the reasons I know about my part of the downfall. In couples counseling I have heard her side many times. So when I describe a situation I more or less know what she's thinking because she's told me. I could write that I feel betrayed, that I've done nothing wrong, that she left for no reason, but I've already done that. The first time she left, that's how I felt. After going through what I've gone through, I now know that's not the case. I've been informed of what actually happened during the R that now I am better able to describe my situation. I've been told to give details and I feel I can give a lot of details based on what my w has told me, what our counselor has told us, what my IC has said to me. I have a lot of colors to paint with.

"You did sound impatient. Again, it's what you wrote that gave that tone. What my comment did, however, was allow you to clarify your point which is how you should be detailing your ongoing sitch."

My mind was thinking humor, I guess the text said impatient. Can we both agree now that I've clarified my point? I was trying to be funny. I have no problem letting someone think what they want about me. I don't care what people think of me. However in the case of posting on a divorce forum, I feel I need to clarify if I feel there is a misunderstanding. So I think we're clear on a few points now. I sounded impatient, you gave me a chance to clarify, I clarified I'm just a funny guy.

[MrBond]

"From my point of view, it feels like I'm being attacked"

"Honestly I don't feel attacked."

Contradicting yourself again. It's hard to tell what you really mean.