Need support! Conflicted H

[Junsui]

I’m still pretty new to the forums, so maybe I’m just doing this wrong or I have bad luck. My original Newcomers thread never posted (on day 8), so I think it got lost, and it seems like if I post in other sections I don’t really get any replies… so I hope it’s okay for me to try another Newcomers thread. I’m sorry if my other one shows up eventually!

Background: Even during dating, I have always been the “pursuer” in my and H’s R. He wasn’t sure he wanted to commit, and even broke up with me. When he wanted to get back together eventually, I prayed about it a lot and then eventually decided to do so. We married right after he got Bachelor’s and one semester before I finished mine. He had to work a job he really hated for the first few months of our marriage while I was finishing school and we were applying to graduate school. I think this is possibly what triggered his eventual spiral into depression. We got into many different schools in many different states, but H wanted to attend school near his parents so that we could live with them. Despite my misgivings, at the time I was operating under the idea that I should support H’s career aspirations above mine, and so I agreed to this. We moved in with in-laws after only being married 7-8 months. On top of this, at the time I was suffering from some health problems that were impacting our sex life. In hindsight, I feel it was my struggle with the loss of independence that came from moving in with the in-laws that sort of triggered the issues in our M. Things grew steadily worse, and before we’d been married 2 years H and I got into vicious cycle where he would BD/threaten D, and I would cry, bargain, accept all the blame and responsibility etc., he would relent, and we’d eventually stabilize for awhile. As I also mentioned, H has been struggling with depression that caused him to fail some of his graduate classes. In an effort to resolve issues H had with my personality and behavior, I went to IC for almost 2 years.

On Oct. 9 I finally moved out of in-laws after latest BD where H did not relent. I know technically separating is supposed to make DBing more difficult. However, as a result of being able to get some distance, I've finally been able to focus on just me for the first time in years. I read DR, and I’ve been trying to 180, LRT (Stop the Chase and GAL). Since historically I’ve been the fixer and I’ve tried to help him with school and career to the point of sabotaging my own, I am letting H be responsible for himself. I’m not reminding him, applying for him, etc. Some of my GAL goals are:
1) Finish thesis, then apply for full time job that involves moving not commutable distance from H’s parents.
2) Lose weight (I gained 20 pounds since M because I’m a stress eater. That might not seem like a lot, but I am so short that it is enough to make me pre-diabetic).
3) Become involved in my church again. Before M issues I attended church weekly and actively read scriptures, etc.
4) Run a 5k. I know that probably seems small to some of the half-marathon/marathon runners on here, but I figured I’d better start small.

I’m also attempting to work on some of the ways I react in arguments that contributed to the problems in our M. I’ve gotten to the point where I realize that I am not completely at fault/responsible, but nor is it all H’s fault.

Now back to the current state of R: After a few days, H did eventually say he didn't want D, he wanted to try MC. However, he never made an appointment, and he's been very conflicted and ambivalent. Yesterday we had to meet to discuss how to pay December bills, and H seemed reasonable about finances. I was getting mixed signals from him though, and maybe someone more experienced at DBing can help me out. He said that everyone (friends and family I'm assuming?) has noticed how much happier he's been since we've separated. He doesn't think we'll get a divorce because he can't pull that trigger. He'd rather put up with the abuse. He loves me, but he can't quite bring himself to say let's get back together. However, throughout our entire time together yesterday, H was very physically affectionate - hugs, snuggles, petting my hair. He also told me we should get health insurance together if I wouldn’t be able to do it without him.

As a newbie, I’m hoping someone with more experience can help me out. He seems like he’s still conflicted and not sure what he wants, not at the point where he’s ready to accept his part in the way things got and work on things, but at the same time H doesn’t sound as hostile as some spouses do in some of the other situations I’ve read about here on the board. For now I’m still planning to continue with stopping the chase (minimal contact) and GAL and the other things I outlined above, but I wasn’t sure in light of H being depressed and maybe not completely hostile towards me if there were things I should do differently or not. Thanks for any advice!

[S4tk]

Hi Junsui, welcome! I've only been here a short time, but it seems everyone here is interested in helping each other restore their M. I have felt very welcomed.

What was the nature of the bomb drop? He dropped it on you? He asked for a D?

[Junsui]

I'm not entirely sure I understand what details you're asking for, so I apologize if my answer has nothing to do with your questions.

My T has said that it sounds like my H is experiencing negative sentiment override towards me (although of course couldn't say for sure without H's side of the story). In general, I would say something innocuous ("Turn off the stove so the food doesn't burn."), but he would take it very negatively ("Turn off the stove so the food doesn't burn. Duh, you're such an idiot. Why are you so stupid that you don't know that you need to turn off the stove.") I would try to explain that isn't what I meant, and things would escalate from there. This time it escalated to the point where he said "I want a divorce" (not for the first time). However, this time my crying, etc. had no effect. He remained very determined that he wanted a divorce for almost a week before I tried something different. Instead of defending myself, I decided to listen to what he had to say and wait a few seconds before responding. I think what I did was what is called validating his feelings. At this time, he said he didn't really want a divorce, and he would be willing to try MC. However, as weeks passed without him making an appointment, I found DR and this forum. I've really taken a good hard look in the mirror, and it wasn't pretty, and I know I have a lot of work to do. However, I also realize that I can't take all the responsibility.

Maybe the fact I'm referring to it as a bomb drop despite the fact it has happened before is confusing. But usually when things had calmed down after one of these explosions he would claim that divorce wasn't an option, he loved me, and he would never threaten again if he didn't mean it. In between I would start to think maybe we finally got past that because things would seem good, but really H would be keeping his resentment over something to himself until the next time he had a rehash of the past.

[Mimi00]

You have some great goals and are off to a great start.
I don't have much advice to give right now, but I just wanted to say welcome.

[Junsui]

Thanks Mimi! I've read several of your threads, and you've been an inspiration to me!

[Accuray]

Hi Junsui,

I do think more details are needed about your dynamics, there is lots of dysfunction touched upon, but few details. You talk about being the pursuer, but also talk about functioning in a parent role, where you are helping him to function (reminding him to turn in assignments, completing his applications for him, etc.). That is different than being a pursuer, that's a parent/child dynamic and comes with it's own issues and challenges.

You also talk about doing a lot of accommodating -- you agreed to move where he wanted to move, you agreed to move in with his parents, etc. and have put your desires and your career on the backburner to accommodate what HE wanted.

You also touched on the fact that H has inner dialogs that he gets angry with you about. You say "X", and he hears "Y", then gets mad about "Y". My W does that as well, and it's a very difficult thing to contend with.

Finally you touched on sexual problems that were triggered around the time that you moved in with your inlaws. What impact did this have on your M and what did H have to say about it?

It sounds like you have a history of unproductive arguments that end with H threatening divorce and you begging him to stay with you, you reach equilibrium for some period of time, and then the cycle repeats.

I would like more detail on all of these themes if you're up for it.

In terms of an initial reaction, it reads like you were in a "one up/one down" relationship, where H was "one up" and you were "one down". What that means is that he will be the one to ultimately get his way whenever you disagree, you will be the one to accommodate and sacrifice, and you will be the one to appear to "want it more", which means that H will value you less.

This dynamic is painful for both parties, including the "one up" person, and is written about at length in the book "The Passion Trap" by Dean Delis. That may be worth reading.

The other book that may be worth a read for your situation is "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" by Steven Stosny and Patricia Love. That will help you to break out of the unproductive argument cycles.

Let us know if you have specific questions regarding your sitch.

Acc

[ccZ28]

Junsui,

I'm sorry that you have to be here, but hopefully we can help you with your new path.

It sounds like things have been rought since the beginning! I'm sorry to hear that.

One thing that I have noticed about a lot of the DB'ers is how young they (we) are. Is our generation so eager to let things slip away?

thanks,

[Junsui]

Accuray, thank you so much for replying! I will do my best to give more details, but let me know if I’m still not being specific enough.

The reason I referred to myself as the “pursuer” and the “fixer” is because of the section in DR where it says “Some people are fix-it addicts. Fixing their marriages has become the main focus of their lives.” That totally resonated with me. However, I do agree there is definitely a parent/child dynamic going on in my M as well. I mentioned we are in graduate school and H failed some of his classes. Also his particular field is one where an internship is absolutely essential to getting a decent job. Because he was having trouble, I tried to help him find internships and did things (like move in with his parents) that he said would help him finish. However, my help was ignored or rejected. At this stage in his program, he is taking too long to finish and as a result is no longer receiving funding, so I’ve been solely paying our bills for months. As part of my 180, I decided I needed to cut his access to the credit card, which was only in my name (all of our debt is in my name).

I’m not really sure what else to say about all of my accommodating that I’ve been doing. I suppose this has something to do with H insisting that I’m abusive. Having formerly been in an abusive relationship myself, this truly freaked me out, and that was my motivation for going to IC to try to learn how to not be abusive. However, my IC eventually decided after over a year of trying different approach strategies that it’s just that H sees me so negatively. Like you described, I say X, he hears Y, and Y is always critical and abusive towards H even though my thoughts and intent are nowhere near meaning to come across that way. I know I’m not perfect and I could improve, but it really got to the point where I felt like it was impossible.

The original sexual problems were actually due to some health problems that I was experiencing that just happened to start right around the same time that we moved in with the in-laws – double whammy! However, even after I started feeling better, our sex life has essentially dwindled to nothing (once a year – really depressing for relative newlyweds!). H’s love language is physical touch (with words of affirmation as a close second), but despite that, he has consistently rejected my offers to be intimate. I think one of the problems is that he gets too awkward about us having conversations about sex (he was a virgin before we married) – another case where I say X, but he hears Y (such as I say X turns me on, please do more of that, but he hears that he’s inadequate and [censored] at ML). Another problem is that the only time he tries to initiate is in the middle of the night when I’m trying to sleep for work or school the next day – I always say let’s pick this up tomorrow evening when we get home, but he feels rejected and won’t. So I used to sacrifice sleep in order to meet his needs, but it didn’t seem to help the M situation. He used to say that he wanted us to ML more frequently, but that has stopped. I really think that the fact we could never have good communication about sex has impacted the M in a negative way because of his love language being physical touch. If I could have figured out how to fix this, maybe he could have seen me more positively and not so negatively all the time. Since we’re separated now though, I am at a loss how to fix this until we fix some of the other issues first.

There is indeed a history of cycling through unproductive arguments w/D threats from H and begging/apologies from me. The equilibrium comes when H relents, and for a long time (due to the way things worked in my family growing up) I thought that if H said things were good, that meant we had made up. However, I have noticed that part of the cycle is that H doesn’t really accept my apology or forgive me, but just holds on to it until he explodes and rehashes the past. Usually it’s weeks or months later, when I can’t remember anymore what exactly I did or said, but I usually feel like the person he’s describing isn’t me. This sparks another unproductive argument, so on and so forth. We have never developed a healthy way to disagree. And even though our arguments actually aren’t that frequent, to H I think it seems like we fight all the time because he’s constantly having past incidents festering and replaying (mind reading probably?).

I ordered “Passion Trap” and put the other book you recommended on hold at the library. Thanks again for responding to my sitch!

[Junsui]

I don't know if this is technically good DBing, but as I just mentioned in my previous post, one of my 180s has to do with finances. Since H has no income, I've been paying all our bills and all of the debt is in my name. However, as a student, I'm not making very much money, and this has been a huge source of stress to me. I told H he needed to cover his part of the bills, or we needed to sell the car, etc. I also told H he needed to get his own credit card.

I've been trying to do minimal contact, but I called H twice today to try to give him the final amount he needed to contribute to bills. He didn't answer either time and has not called me back. Since I gave him a close estimate at our financial meeting, should I just stop trying to reach him for now? Is it too helpful to send a text message or try to call again with the final amount? I feel like I might still be taking care of too much for him.

[Junsui]

Sorry for the third post, but another thing I've been trying to figure out is text messages. H will text me, and I will respond (not always right away but within hours), but then he won't text me back. I reply because it feels rude to me to not reply, but I'm sort of getting the impression that replying is hurting rather than helping the situation. Is this mind reading? His texts are about things like "Do you remember me telling you about how I was optimistic about my basketball team? They haven't won yet this season!" In DBing and LRT, considering we have no kids, I know I'm supposed to go "dark". But if he contacts me, shouldn't I polite respond? Maybe the key is just that I shouldn't take it personally. Respond politely, but if he doesn't reply it doesn't really matter. Can a "vet" shed some light on this for me?