The tide is high, but I'm holding on

[job]

I'd like to remind posters that the talk that TV has w/her h came a good place in the crisis. If you attempt to have this type of talk w/your MLCer before they are partly baked, it will go in one ear and out the other. It is best to wait and observe and you will know when the time is right to open that door and step inside to have that chat.

[nero]

tv -

a few comments:

H said that he wished I had spoken to him sooner, that we need to get better at communication, that we shouldn't go so long without talking.

I said - this is true. Before all this happened, I was not great about talking to you when I was upset. That is something I need to work on.

we're bad at this too. it alwasy never seems "easy" or the rite time to "talk" to a non-talker. a person whose policy is to NEVER talk about his feelings-

i wonder HOW _ WE BEGIN - after sooooooo many years to talk more to each other and communicate more effectively. it's soooooo easy to talk to women or almost anhyone else alive- and soooooooo hard with him- about him - becasue it's soooo important? i guess??? idk- just relate like mad and see it as something that is our "problem" also.

This surprised me, because to be honest, I didn't feel like he saw me struggling. He was already in the early stages of his crisis.

io wonder and hope that my h notices anything at all "with me". i don't think he does - it's all about him in life. maybe - maybe i've not known his mlc began ten years ago- he said in beginning he's been unhappy for ten years!!! all i could say was "were you going to say something about it???" e ver""" wtf to be fair- his comment last week that "he doesn't have the right to say it" "that he misses hearing my voice when we don't speak for a few days" - was wierd & interesting. to hear that he acknowledges he doesn't have a right to feel it- because of what he's "done" with is mlc- idk

YOU ALSO say somewhere that you didn't want to hear his voice or see his face. i know----- i get that way too , i'm soooo tired of being relegated to a stinkin ten minute phone call once a day- there's sooooo much more to me as a peson that that - a f'ing phone call.

it's stilted andwierd to try and make it "do" or mean someting. when i know he's with her or seen her- i do not pick it up- i can't. i just don't want to know he's alive then- and wonder each time if it will "stick" the next time - or this time. i have a bad feeling it will one time- i'll never pick up again- he can go drift away - and good riddance.

ya gotta wonder 0- no??? i can't even imagine sex because i don't even want to look at him sometimes, the damage he's wrought.

it's such an insane thing - isn't? trying and trying and STANDING and at the very same time hosting such anger and resentment of the exact same person-


eeeeek- she's-a-gonna-blow .....

thanks for sharing- i know i said it- but i sure liked reading your thoughts that mirror my own and seeing what you're doing - feeling- trying-

a ray of hope (dim and wattery - but there)

your comments seem like hopeful stuff - i despair of there being any life after mlc -

[LoisB]

Thanks for the reminder Job.

Yup, Smokey would just say, "Well, see ya. MaryJane has one rolled and ready to light."

I'm practicing indifference today.

But, TV, the time was ripe and you handled it like a pro!!

Hope we get to that point someday.

If not, well, "It just doesn't matter." Bill Murray, Meatballs

Heather

[ForeverYoung]

I'd like to remind posters that the talk that TV has w/her h came a good place in the crisis. If you attempt to have this type of talk w/your MLCer before they are partly baked, it will go in one ear and out the other. It is best to wait and observe and you will know when the time is right to open that door and step inside to have that chat.

Very true, that.

But this:

H said that he wished I had spoken to him sooner, that we need to get better at communication, that we shouldn't go so long without talking.

Is proof to me that we don't have to STFU forever, and wait, wait, wait for them to initiate some kind of reality talks. Of course timing is everything.

TVS, would you say you issued any "truth darts" prior to your nuke session with H? Oh was it more like you weren't saying anything about the R and held it all in until you finally couldn't take it anymore? You've not posted for a while prior to this so I'm not sure. Thanks!

[Takevowsserious]

Hello All

I was thinking a lot about everyone's posts.

Job is right, they have to be at a certain point in the crisis to even entertain hearing what you might say.

The tricky thing is, I think we may believe that we HAVE to wait to that point to talk to them. We don't. We don't have to do anything we don't want to do.

Nero, I had come to a point where I can honestly say I was fully prepared for him to leave. In fact, I wanted it. I felt like this could go on indefinitely because he was getting the best of both worlds. Yes, living a double life was also taking its toll on him, but he kept it going.

I thought - what's the worst that could happen if he left? Maybe he and FT need to be together without me as a buffer. Let her try to fill all his needs.

Never mind that she's married too! I mean really, where is their R going to go long term???

I also thought - let HER be the one to worry about ME. Which I think she does anyway. Perhaps she would like to live a life always watching her back, waiting for when my H would betray her.

Doesn't sound too romantic to me.

FY, H and I didn't really discuss our R (or lack of one) during the past two years. Not counting bomb, we maybe had 2-3 talks. We would go long periods of time without discussing anything.

Which can be a catch 22 - yes, he SAID we needed to communicate more, but I can think of several times during this crisis where he sabotaged any attempts at communication.

Because DB is often doing the opposite of what we feel/think we should do, I think that while it may be tempting to try to talk to the MLCer, it's often a waste of time.

I also think that just because we aren't specifically talking about the M, it doesn't mean things aren't happening. On the contrary, I think if we don't pressure them and give them space and time to figure it out on their own, that's when some progress may happen.

Prior to the talk, I had also decided that I wasn't done with my H, our M, or standing. I was just done with the status quo. Not that I was going to share this with him

Who knows what's going to happen in the future. Part of me still feels like he needs to be away from me and living here to make it all the way through. I'm not totally convinced he fully understands all he has to lose. But I do think some things are finally percolating up there...

Heather, indifference is hard. Detaching is hard. Loving someone who hurts us so much is hard. Hell, this is all hard!!!

I hope you get to a point one day where you can talk to your H and he hears you. But no matter what, you have proven yourself to be strong enough to live a good and happy life - whether or not you love house cleaning

[reachingHigher]

TVS, I read your posts eagerly this weekend as if devouring a novel.

I applaud you for having the fortitude to state where you are emotionally, and giving H the open door. It was perfect.

I love that he wants to stay. That he still cares about you.

I admire you for taking a break from here and doing what you need to do. You've been carrying a weight for so long. I admire you so much.

I hope your H really asks himself about where his life is going, what his values are, etc. As you remember from my sitch, it felt like an aircraft carrier turning around, but here I am a year later blissfully awaiting the holidays.

I kept holding on to job's occasional statements about holidays sometimes producing a "miracle". Oh, I how wanted that SOOOOO badly. Could it possibly be a miracle for me? I never win anything. Could it happen this time?

You know it did! It was a huge miracle! And not that we didn't face a lot of work this year and plenty of times I said bad words about H into the open air with no one listening, it was worth all the trouble.

But those are all iffy things and your H needs to be willing to do some hard work. I hope and wish, more than you can imagine, that he is willing.

Oh, TVS, I often recall little tidbits of your posts to me. You have been a faithful friend for me and an awesome W and mother.

Your boys have more to be grateful for than they will ever realize.

There is nothing love cannot face; there is no limit to its faith, hope and endurance.

Yes, yes and yes!
I love your tag line change!

[Whiterose]

Holy wow TVS. How spectacular that you were able to so successfully understand exactly when, and how, to approach your H. Your spidy senses were in fine form!

I'm so glad for you that you were able to have this conversation and I pray that this leads you on a path towards peace.

[Mach1]

I'd like to remind posters that the talk that TV has w/her h came a good place in the crisis. If you attempt to have this type of talk w/your MLCer before they are partly baked, it will go in one ear and out the other. It is best to wait and observe and you will know when the time is right to open that door and step inside to have that chat.

This can't be stressed enough ^^^^^

[Mach1]

TVS

I've been thinking about your recent conversations a bit...

For the most part, what you did throughout that, was to give his crap back to him. You have been dragging around HIS emotional garbage for a couple years now, and it was time for YOU to kick that schidt to the curb..

And within that, you scared him for the first time. This is the first time that he was faced with actually loosing you, and everything that contains "you".

Now it was only for a little while that he popped his head out of his little fortress that he has built, yet it did happen.
His words were there, of one side of his struggle, not every side, but one side of the arguments that go on inside of his head daily. The "other" side of that argument, he STILL hid from you, the other equation was hidden.

In that moment, what he faced was very similar to what each of us has faced, and refer to as "the bomb". It was a wake up call for most of us...

We weren't ready for it, and I doubt that HE was ready for it...

So, with that, I would like for you to realize that this isn't the end for him, and his theories are still unproven, and he is still confused about a lot of things. Not admitting the affair, is a sign that he isn't ready to face any of this yet. And just because he "says" that he knows what he wants, he is still cycling and spinning just as much as before.

Now isn't the time to "move" closer to him, and start to forget the hard work that you have done. Now isn't the time to appear indecisive with your ACTIONS, or your words.

Now also isn't the time for you to do a lot of talking either. This needs to be about him still, and what he can handle, what he is ready to deal with, what he can accept, what he is ready to be accountable for.

Your life moves forward just like before...

What he needs to see from you, is a constant in your words, and even more from your actions. That you were serious about what you said, and how you felt.

I have said many times before that this ISN'T a game, although it will play like one. Cool calculated steps in this journey, on your behalf. Each one thought through, yet totally independent from getting a reaction, or expecting one. There are steps, and as much as we do things for our self, there are things that need to happen to produce the results that we desire.

If you were to tell him that you were done with this, last year, or before you actually were done, and it was done to achieve a desired outcome, he would have sniffed that out like drug dog on a Cheech and Chong movie set.

Saying it when you are actually at that point, has a totally opposite effect. THAT is where your words AND actions align, when the head and heart are reconciled. You live your words and actions. Totally disconnected from the marriage being the prize at the end of the race. You shifted that focus so that YOU were the prize. The only way to do that, is through a LOT of hard work, and that part scares the bejeezus out of him at this point.

In talking with some former MLCers, one constant has been that they all have said that they come out of this slowly. AmyC had stated that the Lord unraveled this tangle web of destruction very slowly to her, because he knew that pulling the shades up too fast would have destroyed her. Another friend described the process as these thoughts would pop into her head, things that she had forgotten about for years, and once she placed HER emotions onto theses things, they would disappear from her thoughts and confusion. And things would slowly become clearer each day.

Another friend has described a combination of both of those things, although they ALL felt a burning desire to make the wrong things right. Yet their path wasn't always clear. And that they all felt that they needed to get them self right, without any interference.

Another thing...Once the MLCer comes through the tunnel, and starts to own their things. They are light years behind the LBS in terms of relationship knowledge. The LBS has read, cried, struggled, triumphed, and come through a revelation of sorts. We are enlightened, and very much different than the person that they remember.

Go easy with that, and the ONE skill that will help the most, is to ..

Listen without defending, and speak without offending....


For now though.....

If you were to ask me my opinion of what the heck happened...??

He got scared when you took away HIS safety net. He said the right things to stop you from pulling his rug out from under him, and he has a plan to stay safe for another few months.

Now isn't the time to become weak, or believe action-less words from him.

Stay YOUR course until, over time, his words become deeper than a hot air balloon....

Remember......TIME

[reachingHigher]

Fantastic post, Mach!

Thank you!

And I love this:

Listen without defending, and speak without offending....