New to the board, fairly newly LBS from MLC.

[tigerlily78]

I also ran across this on another thread but didn't want to derail that discussion:

Whoops. I clearly forgot to paste over the quote. Anyways, the conversation was about addiction and how addicts commonly substitute one kind of addiction for another. I think OW is clearly filling her addictive void with me WAS. I also ran across something on addiction and ritual behaviors and remembered that WAS mentioned to me he drank a "near beer" with dinner at OW's house and she is also drinking it. At the time he said it I gave him kind of a dubious look, like "Umm.. should a recovering alcoholic be drinking near beer?" Most online resources I found seem to indicate NO... that it is still serving as a psychological crutch or ritual that serves the same role as the addiction did, and is often the beginning of a slide back into abuse. "If I can handle drinking a near beer or three and be in control, then why shouldn't I be able to start drinking a real beer or two when I want."

I know that my journey is supposed to be about ME. I just think it's interesting to have the insight. In a way I guess I should be thankful that my WAS was initially so open about who she is... otherwise the mystery of it would probably be a lot more annoying and intimidating than the reality. Yes, she is pretty and likes to skate. I kind of feel like I am not so bad looking myself and my list of other skills and credentials blows that out of the water. :P

[tigerlily78]

Without giving you all the details, we had some R talk today. I didn't initiate it, but once it started I rolled with it for awhile. He basically admitted that I AM a good person, and he is comfortable with me, and we know so much about each other that he feels like he can just be himself with me. I agreed and validated that we seem like a good fit in a lot of ways.

I confessed a few of my worries and fears, (calmly, no tears) just as an adult in a situation who needed some assurances, even though I know there is much he is still unsure of now. He gave me some assurances (he will never sell our house and expect me to move no matter what happens, that he feels an obligation to helping my son and I be able to stay in our home). And he mentioned that already his feelings for OW are changing in some ways. (I didn't have the courage to ask which way.. positive/attachment or negative/detachment... I just replied with a "Oh, I see.") He also admitted that over the past week or so he was feeling a lot more positive about our relationship and about our potential. I told him I was glad to hear that he was feeling more positive about us. I took that as a good note to end on and excused myself to go make some breakfast.

I know we are probably not supposed to be having these conversations... but in a way they also feel like a 180. I think I did a decent job being honest about my feelings and my fears without being sad and invoking shame or guilt. He is also sharing what he is thinking and feeling in a way he hasn't done in many years. I am not going to keep TRYING to have these conversations, but it seems like if they come up and I can hold up my end of being unemotional, but honest, it seems positive. I guess we will have to wait 24 - 48 hours to see what the reaction is. Will he flip the switch again, or is this a baby step that will hold for awhile?

[tigerlily78]

Well, wouldn't it just figure. Weeks ago, (oct 21) when the WAS went AWOL for 48 hours I sent a Facebook message to the OW expressing my feeling that although I was letting WAS "explore his emotions" I did still love him and was not throwing him out of my life or advocating for their affair. I was NOT taking a break from him and that we were still being intimate. Also that my sticking around did NOT mean I was okay with him being completely selfish and irresponsible and doing things like taking off for an evening and then leaving me in the dark for prolonged periods without letting me know he was okay, especially when he knew I needed the car for one of our son's events and waited until the last minute to get in touch with me to let me know I would have to make other arrangements. I also added a definition of midlife crisis and rebound relationships to illustrate that as special as they both feel, there's a pretty good chance they are self deluded. I know NOW that was not a good idea. I sent it before I had read better advice and didn't have a way of retracting it. It was going to her "other" folder so I figured there was a good chance she might never see it.

I also told WAS that I had sent this message when he got home after the 48 AWOL event, and I let him read what I sent. He actually said it was a "decent message" and after reading it I think he took a fair amount of my points to heart.

Well, of course now that the message was received he got a little pissy about it. Apparently after she read the message she browsed my page and saw my family pics of us and some posts I made eluding to some recent intimacy we had that I found quite pleasing and messages of gratitude and hope that with a little work we could still reconcile. At some point previously I had promised WAS that I "would not tell OW that we were still being intimate... and he feels he added on a provision that I shouldn't tell ANYONE." Well, nothing in my posts specifically said "we had sex", and they were on MY facebook page, which I never presumed the OW would give a flying fruck to view. She has my WAS, if she cared that he had a committed partner and a wife of 15+ years she probably would have made a different decision from the outset. :P

So WAS tells me I MUST remove these posts from my facebook, and demands that I verify that I made a PROMISE not to tell her and that this activity violated that promise. I argued that what I posted was for my own edification, not meant for her or even him. (If he was bothering to may any attention to MY facebook he probably would have seen the messages earlier and could have asked me to remove them sooner, but he didn't care about MY facebook until it affected HIM and his delusional fling.) I said that I guess I had violated the provision about "not telling anyone", but it was honestly not my intention to out him for playing two women (which he is doing, but clearly I think I have a better handle on what my situation is than SHE does), I posted what I did for my own reasons of self esteem.

Well, end resolution is he decides he STILL wants to keep up what he is doing, but wants me to remove my posts. Apparently OW was somehow mollified over both the note and the messages, I am sure he managed to convince her that I am just mean and vindictive and a liar, and just made those posts to make it LOOK like something is going on. How funny is that. You get into a relationship with someone based on a misrepresentation/lie of their relationship status and living arrangements, and then when you get the tiniest inkling that they might be lying to you about something else... you turn up the denial and accept that you can TRUST the liar over the spouse they betrayed?

Well, I already knew this OW is kind of a headcase, but her acceptance of his rationalizations and MORE lies really just takes the cake.

I guess in a way though she is actually doing me a favor. Now they can still break up eventually under the weight of their own emotional issues and/or selfishness than me having to bear the weight of his resentment for "breaking them up."

He says he is not mad. (really? bizarre) Since this situation didn't rock his love boat too much, I guess he is willing to overlook it, because he still wants to be with me too. Man, if I could get some of the drugs he is under the influence of. After this debacle we had a talk/argument, I validated, I apologized, I said I was very remorseful for having broken his trust. In the end he wanted to RENEW our agreement to keep being intimate but keep it between the two of us ONLY and reiterated that it was bad timing, since he was really starting to feel like we had potential again, but he wasn't going to hold this against me, that he understood it was a much smaller kind of betrayal than the one he inadvertently brought against me with "falling for someone else." (Again, drugs? One minute I deserve this and the next I don't) He ended up coming to sleep in our bed with me for the first night in about two weeks. I don't know how that plays into his reconciliation with OW. I am trying not to press for details until he offers them. He went over there to return something of hers this afternoon and to pick up some of his things. At first I thought this meant they were splitsville afterall, but he didn't bring back everything, he told me later he just went to get his skates because he is skating tonight on his own.

He said he intended to come home tonight too after skating. Guess we will see how that goes. It was nice having him in the bed even though my mind was spinning from anxiety, remorse, guilt, etc from wondering how the message situation would be resolved.

[tigerlily78]

I ran across this in a HuffPost article the other day and thought it was interesting. Just further conformation that those of us DB'ing are putting ourselves on the path to real and lasting happiness, and our WAS and Exes are taking a path towards constant longing and jumping hurdles to get fulfillment from all the wrong things:

"Not all happiness is created equal, and in your own pursuit of joy and bliss, keep in mind that the type of happiness you're after can make all the difference. A recent UCLA study found that eudaimonic happiness -- that which was linked to having a larger purpose or sense of meaning in life -- was linked with healthy gene activity, whereas hedonic, or pleasure-seeking, happiness was not. Those who were happy because they had a sense of purpose in life had lower inflammatory gene expression and higher antiviral and antibody gene expression than others.

"Eudaimonic happiness is something you build up over a lifetime," Shimon Edelman, cognitive psychologist and author of "The Happiness Of Pursuit," told The Huffington Post. "In a sense, it's a great consolation for older people -- it's nice to know that on that component, people can get more and more happy as they age if they led good lives."

[tigerlily78]

Well, he didn't come home as he had announced he intended to do. No surprise there. He sent me an email letting me know, and like a dummy I replied. "Thanks for letting me know. This [censored] and is stupid. I deserve better."

How odd it is to live life with no expectations for positive behavior.

When he came home today I avoided him, gave him space. He did finally call out to me because our bedroom door didn't latch this morning when I came out and one of our cats who "isn't allowed in the bedroom" (she has peed on the bed and is now banned) was in there hiding under the bed. I admitted I messed up and made a mistake and that I would get her out of there.

Then I resumed being dim and doing my own thing. I had some website updates to make so I was working on that when he strolled through the living room and out to the car to get a bag. When he got back upstairs he sent me a message letting me know he liked a video I sent to him yesterday (motorcycle related) and asking about when they have Open Swim hours at the Aquatics Center and how much that costs. Our son is stalled in Boy Scouts and can't advance any farther until he becomes a competent swimmer and can meet the swim requirements... so it's nice to see this priority/issue is still occupying some space in WAS's mind. I was beginning to think we'd just have to wait until next summer when our neighborhood pool reopens.

I sent him the info on the times and prices and mentioned that if there is a weeknight that he thinks would work for us to go regularly I can call ahead and make sure they will let us use the open pool area during that evening's lap swim. (the only real open swim times in the evening conflict with other plans we have).

I left it at that and will wait to see what he does next.

[tigerlily78]

**I have several years of previous web forum moderating experience if you ever decide you need a few more eyes doing moderation.

I made one of my 180s to keep the house more tidy and organized, so I am making good headway on that. I started on the garage and worked until the trash and recycling was full for the week. Still plenty to do, but it's already a big improvement. I deep cleaned our master bathroom and our bedroom. I boxed up some clothes he has had piled up in bags in one corner of the room and never wears. You should have seen the look when he saw the boxes and asked "What's this about?" LOL. I said I just boxed up those extra clothes so it looked neater. Maybe I should have said I was starting to pack his bags. :P Today I decluttered and cleaned my cookbook shelf in the kitchen and then vacuumed and mopped the floors. I can tell he is taking notice. There have been comments about how lucky *I* am to live in this nice, big, clean house. (what about him? not so lucky I guess)

After Friday's facebook post discovery debacle, and the shock of Saturday seeing that WAS and OW are still hunkydory with each other it is more clear than ever she is as self deluded about the nature of my page posts as WAS is about the longterm viability of their "love". Yep, cupcake you aren't so special after all, but I know you'll just keep pretending. They have both blocked me on Facebook now... as if that is really any sort of solution if I *really* wanted to keep tabs on them on Facebook. I am going to just chalk that up to some more infatuation induced naivety. My WAS has to know I know plenty of ways of getting around that, I am no dummy. He has pointed out several times how I am WAY smarter than the OW.

He spent most of the day in his office claiming to be "working on stuff." My son invited him to walk down with us to the basketball court and shoot hoops for a little bit, but he said he was too busy. He also wanted to know if we were eating lunch before we went. I had my son relay the message that neither of us was hungry yet, we planned to eat when we got back. WAS muttered something about if we had ingredients to make a salad. I called up the stairway that we did and we'd be back in about 30 minutes.

Had a good time with our son. The weather was lovely, he was in good spirits and we talked about some ways he could help make Dad feel more appreciated and respected ("When he talks and interacts with you, set aside what you are doing if possible and give him your full attention" "Ask follow up questions if you have any about what he is saying"). He asked if Dad was going to be spending Thanksgiving with us, and I said I didn't know. I suggested he could ask him and see, or write him a note or an invitation about it. Then we talked about what our plans for Thanksgiving would be whether Dad is around of not.

When we got back to the house WAS had not managed to get around to making that salad. I ended up making lunch for all three of us. WAS thanked me and explained part of the reason he was so busy was because he got roped into trying to fix a "slow" laptop for "a friend" (presumably one of OW's friends). I know he HATES doing these kinds of favors, especially when the person tries to tell him what to do to fix it, rather than telling him what the problem is and letting him use his degree and experience to make his own judgment about what needs doing. I validated that I understand how frustrated those kinds of favors make him and that is why when my mom had a problem recently I figured it out for her myself. I could tell when I talked to him this afternoon that he felt unduly burdened.

Sometime later after I had gone about the afternoon doing my own chores and tasks, I was sitting on our bed reading and he came and sat by me and asked if I would do a favor for him. I said it would probably depend on the favor. It turns out he just wanted me to run to the store and buy him a couple bottles of this recovery drink he uses after exercise. He said he felt like he was dehydrated and his eyes were shriveling up and he really wanted some of that drink right away. I said since I could see he was very busy and I was just reading and relaxing that I would go and get it quick (the store is less than 10 minutes from our house, so I didn't feel this was asking too much. I could tell from his body language that he was feeling seriously in need). He was very appreciative, which was nice.

When he got ready to go out tonight he further complained about what a busy day he had. I said I knew he felt like today wasn't very relaxing, but also pointed out that I personally had made almost no demands on his time. He nodded and admitted that was true. When he first came into the kitchen prior to leaving I told him he looked good, and then as I thought he was actually leaving I told him to have fun and that I would see him in the morning. It turns out he needed to run back upstairs for one more thing. By the time he came back I had finished doing the dishes and was looking over my grocery list. He came over and gave me a tight hug and told me he'd see me in the morning. I replied with a smile and "See ya."

He still gives good hugs when he wants to. Of course after he left it put me on the verge of tears. Its hard to want something so bad and know it is teetering on the edge of the cliff.

[tigerlily78]

Well, tonight I kind of fell off the wagon. He came home to shower and change clothes and to give me the car so I could take my son to his activity tonight. I was already feeling at the end of my chain emotionally... I had the wrong album come up in the mix on my MP3 player and it just threw me right back into those Week 1 kind of feelings. He told me once he was ready he wanted me to go drop him off at the skate place where OW works part time. I told fine, just tell me when you are ready. I am tired of being expected to wait around in the kitchen for him like a valet until HE is ready. I am done playing that game. I wanted to drive there and so did he. I insisted that I should get to, he just had the car for the past 24 hours. He refused and got in the drivers seat anyways. I was super pissed at this point.

I pretty much unloaded on him about a lot of things. How I am feeling, that I am sick of seeing his "whore's stupid hat in the car" (he says it's his now, she gave it to him) and that I am trying very hard to be calm and levelheaded about this stupid situation, but I am not going to stand for having reminders of his affair thrown in my face on a daily basis. Her crap should not be in my car or laying around in the house, keep it under wraps.

I ranted about some other things too, like how I can't trust one single thing he says anymore, that what he thinks he means or feels or wants or intends to do changes on a weekly if not daily basis... so it's no wonder I am sitting in the car here today acting like a crazy person. It is enough to make any sane person crazy. He wanted some examples so I gave them to him, clear obvious examples. One was the post bombdrop comment about how "He would never leave her, she would have to leave him" and his subsequently admitting that was a really dumb thing to say and he really overstated it. I asked which of those two statements do you feel today is the more genuine one, because I can't tell. I think you mean everything you say, but what you mean is constantly changing. The other example was this initial acceptance of the idea of getting counselling, and then his subsequent comment 8 hours later that he "didn't think he really needed therapy after all because all his problems seemed to be solved by his new lifestyle, and then his more recent comment that "we can't afford to have 3 people in therapy?" I asked, do you ACTUALLY think you want to do therapy. His response was, "Yes, when I have more time." I laughed a little and pointed out that under his current lifestyle he will never have more time. He will have to MAKE time or it will never happen.

Then we arrives at our destination and I had no desire to keep talking, I realized I had already screwed up in letting myself explode the way I did. I got out right away to switch sides, which prompted him to get out and get his stuff. I squealed the tires pulling away from him in the lot. See? He isn't the only one who can drive like an idiot just because they feel like it.

Good Gravy, the level I sunk to today. It was not pretty. I gave him all the space and avoidance in the world this evening when he came home to get the car. I didn't have an ounce of energy left to even pretend to be happy.

[tigerlily78]

He took his pillow to OWs last night after the whole car situation. Bleh. I left him a note in the bathroom letting him know it made me sad that he took his pillow, but that this is still his home and his bed when he wants it to be.

We managed to have an amiable trip to the grocery store today. I mentioned to him that is seemed like he was trying extra hard not to make eye contact with me. He shrugged and agreed. I didn't bother to ask WHY? ...I finally picked up that pointer. I just made the observation and left it at that. Later in the day when I went to bring him some lunch I got deliberate eye contact and even a smile. So I guess I was on to something there.

He has started rinsing out his dishes after he eats... something I have asked for him to do on and off for over a decade, now I didn't even have to ask and he starts doing it. Oh this MLC stuff is a trip. I did make sure to let him know I appreciate it, even though I find myself questioning his motivation.

[tigerlily78]

Woo. I am finally out of moderation!! *joy*

[tigerlily78]

I have resigned myself to no longer wanting to see their facebook crap. Someone posted to OW "Congrats on you and H!" and she replied with some nonsense like "Yeah! It's awesome. There is nothing happening in the world right now but him but the two of us. I think it's healthy!"

Between this vomit inducing post and her Halloween picture I have seen all I need to. Yeah, I am sure it seems healthy to obsess over each other while also being in denial about the nature/meaning of my facebook posts she saw and the reality that the guy still spends hours a day here at home.

Instead of a sexy-whatever costume, she did this grotesque makeup job that looked like her face was getting unzipped and there was a monster/demon underneath emerging. Despite the masquerade, the truth really IS sitting there just under the surface. That image will always be how I see her now... hopefully in time that is how WAS will see her too.