Intro - hoping for support/advice on DBing

[melissag]

I'm having trouble with the PMA. Sometimes I do OK, others not so great. I wake up each morning with a pretty bad MA. I mean, the first thing I think when I wake up is, "oh, crap, this is my s.h.i.t.t.y. life - another day with no H." I need to think of a new mantra I guess to replace that negative thought. Just not sure what it is, or how to convince myself of it.

Maybe I need to go read DR again. I think the feeling of complete lack of control is making me feel really down. I know I can't control H, but I feel like he is completely controlling me (as least as far as our relationship is concerned). I pretty much just have to take what I get from him and react to it. Ugh.

[melissag]

Ok, take this advice lightly, but..... Your H wanted to have a night for his sister to see the kids and he happened to invite you...... And you made it sound like her being there cramped your chance to connect with him.

That night wasn't about the 2 of you, it was about the kids seeing Their aunt.

You are indeed trying to control situations so you can " prove" things to him or feel certain connection.

Take it from the woman who made this mistake all too much.

It looks forced and fake and it actually ends up looking like it's all about you, which isn't a good thing.

Wait . . . what??? That's not at all what I did. I went over and stayed for a very short time in order to allow H and the kids to hang out with my SIL. I acted fine and happy while I was there, I said nothing and acted in no way to seem like I thought SIL was cramping my chance to connect with him.

When I come here and say that I felt like I wasn't going to be able to connect with H because my SIL was there, that's me venting. I did nothing to control the situation or try to prove anything to H. He invited me over, I accepted. I arrived on time, we had fun, I left reasonably early. I'm not sure how anything seemed forced or fake, or how he could possibly think it seemed like it was all about me. ??? Am I missing something? Please elaborate.

[melissag]

GM, thanks for the clarification. I actually didn't have any expectations about connecting with H, as I knew my SIL would be there. So there was no surprise there. I was merely complaining that the opportunity wasn't there - not saying I was disappointed when it wasn't. I do think that without SIL there, there would have been an opportunity for something more with H - I am just saying that based on our interactions of the past few weeks, which have all been very positive. He has initiated R talk and/or intimacy many times, and given me reasons to be hopeful that we are going to work this out. Is that an expectation I need to erase from my mind? I'm not sure how to do that! I know, keep the hope but lose the expectations - not sure how to separate the two. It's kind of like not believing anything they say and only half of what they do . . . what am I supposed to do with that?

I can tell by what I am writing now that I am still focusing far too much on H and not enough on myself. Ugh . . . it's such a process. And a hard one at that.

[Mimi00]

Good for you getting through last night, I know that had to be tough!

I'll respond to your question from Louela's thread about the balance b/c space and speaking the love language.

Mimi, this is kind of where I am right now - H has moved out saying he needs space to (a) figure out who he is/wants to be and (b) figure out if we can fix things. When he was here, I was able to 180 and speak his LL (physical touch - I did not initiate, but I sure reciprocated!), and things were going really well. Now that he is not here, it seems that the 37 rules view this as pursuing, which I am not supposed to be doing.

In my non-expert opinion, lol, now that your H has moved and you're giving space through no calling/texting etc.. unless necessary. But when your H contacts you or if you're invited to spend time with him as you were last night, find natural opportunities in those moments to "speak his love language". Like if he's in the kitchen and you have to walk past him in a tight space; touch his back gently (if touch is his LL) or if you all sit on the sofa don't sit all the way at the other end and be awkward, "act as if" and sit nearer him [but still giving a comfortable personal space of course] , or if he looks nice when you see him let him know or if he does something helpful tell him you appreciated it(if Words of Affirmation is his LL).etc...

So in the times you see him or he calls you, you're "acting as if" your happy to see/talk to him; yet you've set him "free". You have a PMA and every once in a while when you're around he feels a special touch or hears something you've said that makes him feel special/appreciated/smart/etc.... Then when you leave he has his space again..... it's hopefully in those times of space where he thinks back those positive visits or phone conversations and says maybe she wasn't so bad

Unfortunately for me I don't have in person chances to be w/ my H like many on the forum do. So all of my LL work has to be done by phone if the opportunity arises.

[JuneReN]

And one more question . . . what is your mindset with all of this? Do you allow yourself to think that things are going to work out with your spouse? How do you keep that hope there, without relying on it to get you through each day? That is one of the things I am having trouble with. I start feeling good about GAL, 180ing, his reactions to it, etc. And then one little thing crushes me. (Seeing the new keys on his keychain; him sleeping downstairs on the couch after having been with me the night before; etc.) Would love to hear how others manage their thoughts and expectations.

I have always thought things will work out with my spouse and I think yours has a good chance, seeing where your H is and the script he is using. The thing is, expectations will drive you crazy, these are the first thing you let go. I just tell myself that I have a plan and will end up in the exact same place whether or not H is with me. So far, so good

And one more question . . . what is your mindset with all of this? Do you allow yourself to think that things are going to work out with your spouse? How do you keep that hope there, without relying on it to get you through each day? That is one of the things I am having trouble with

See above. I think that a positive attitude towards things working out is a must. Just as long as it's not delusional lol

Also, H is acting so happy it's almost manic - it's a little disturbing. I don't know if it's fake, or if he's just so happy now that he has a cool apartment and kids who worship him.

AS had a good response...it's cool until it's not. And it's fake. I thought H was totally happy with Massage Girl, I was p*ssed that he had no responsibility every day in terms of the kids or house and that everyday was amazing party day.
I was wrong. As he said three months later "You got happy. I didn't"
Here we are a year later and he is further along his path but happy? No. Your H will eventually realize that the happiness lies in him and you are not the cause of his unhappiness. That moving out will not cause happiness.
But because some WAS take many many years to come to the realization (and some never do) is the reason you focus on you.


I need to try to see this from his POV, stop being selfish, and remind myself that my happiness and self confidence comes from within and not from H and not from the way my kids act.

Absolutely as to the happiness from within. Takes a while to get to this point. But you are not selfish and you really don't need to see his point of veiw. You can't deny his POV, but you don't have to agree with it.

Is that an expectation I need to erase from my mind? I'm not sure how to do that! I know, keep the hope but lose the expectations - not sure how to separate the two. It's kind of like not believing anything they say and only half of what they do . . . what am I supposed to do with that?

The longer you live for you, PMA, GAL the easier it gets. When you have a close relationship with your H and he has indicated that he wants to "be friends" "rebuild" etc. It is especially hard not to think "Hurry up and get there" The thing is, you have to build your life and be prepared to keep living it without H, if necessary.
I've told my H that I have a great life. Having him in it would make it better, but it's a great life right now. If H threw coming back into the path I am on now, that path would not change-not in the least.

Thanks for your reply on my thread. Welcome

[melissag]

In my non-expert opinion, lol, now that your H has moved and you're giving space through no calling/texting etc.. unless necessary. But when your H contacts you or if you're invited to spend time with him as you were last night, find natural opportunities in those moments to "speak his love language". Like if he's in the kitchen and you have to walk past him in a tight space; touch his back gently (if touch is his LL) or if you all sit on the sofa don't sit all the way at the other end and be awkward, "act as if" and sit nearer him [but still giving a comfortable personal space of course] , or if he looks nice when you see him let him know or if he does something helpful tell him you appreciated it(if Words of Affirmation is his LL).etc...

So in the times you see him or he calls you, you're "acting as if" your happy to see/talk to him; yet you've set him "free". You have a PMA and every once in a while when you're around he feels a special touch or hears something you've said that makes him feel special/appreciated/smart/etc.... Then when you leave he has his space again..... it's hopefully in those times of space where he thinks back those positive visits or phone conversations and says maybe she wasn't so bad

OK, this makes a lot of sense. I think I am just greedy and missing the many opportunities I had when he was still here to 180 and speak his LL. I think I just have to see the extra space as a positive and not a negative - yes, he will likely reflect on our interactions during that time, and I really need to make sure that our interactions are positive so that he is thinking of those and not of the person he decided was causing all of his misery.

That is tough that you don't get to see your H as much . . . but I guess it's just a different ballgame, having to DB/LL long distance.

[melissag]

I have always thought things will work out with my spouse and I think yours has a good chance, seeing where your H is and the script he is using. The thing is, expectations will drive you crazy, these are the first thing you let go. I just tell myself that I have a plan and will end up in the exact same place whether or not H is with me. So far, so good

Thanks, KP, for your insight. You are right that expectations drive me crazy. Wow, do they ever. I am working on dropping them. I think I am just still in a very desperate place right now. I have been 180ing, DBing, GALing, and all that, and it definitely helps, but this is still pretty new for me, and I still have all those crazy roller coaster emotions. I am hoping that time will help, as well as constant reminders.

[bustingout]

I went through most of your thread and you are doing incredibly well being relatively 'new' to this. I think getting a DB coach is one of the best things we can do for ourselves. My coach also said small tests are ok and can be helpful as we navigate our way through this. In my earlier days I was too focused on H and the testing though. And I was very consumed with how he was seeing me. I took me awhile to realise he simply was not seeng me and this journey had to become my own. To become the woman and mother and best partner I could and wanted to be. It takes time. And more time. And more time after that. And I don't mean to get to a point of reconciliation because we don't know if that is going to happen, even though it is our goal. But it's a long term goal. The focus now is you. Is us. This is our time to shine. And the consistent work on ourselves and the life we want to create irregardless of who wants to be a part of it becomes our light. Our daily goal.

Keep going - you can do this. There will be highs and lows but keep the motion forward moving. Accept that it's hard and don't let it frighten you. Acceptance is the begginning of freedom.

[melissag]

Thank you, Busting. I agree with you about the coach, and I am right there where you were being consumed with what H is doing and thinking. Yes, I have accepted that it's hard, but I think I am still wishing it wasn't. I am having trouble accepting what is staring me in the face, that he is gone and he is creating a life for himself in his new place. I am struggling to find a mindset that allows me to continue being hopeful, but not have expectations, and accept that this is the way it is for now. Sometimes I think of it as a good thing, because really in some ways it is - it's a chance for us to each figure ourselves out and hopefully that will help us in the future to have a better relationship (he has said as much himself, though he has left that relationship open - could be friends, could be more). But that's still really hard to swallow right now. I think my wounds are just too open. I hope that with time each interaction will get a little easier and I won't feel so on edge all the time. It is sad because we had such a good rapport and we were in such a good place before he moved . . . I guess it's only been 4 days, so I should give it time and be patient.

So H just dropped off the kids. He came in to get a few things, then chatted with me in the kitchen for a few minutes. He asked how my weekend was and of course I said, "it was good!!" with a smile, even though I wanted to scream at him to stop this BS and be my husband again. He said his weekend was good, except that he was ready to strangle the kids by the end of it. Which is funny because all he did all weekend, as far as I can tell, is buy them things, feed them crap, and let them do whatever they wanted. My D9 didn't do any homework or take any showers. I wonder whether they brushed their teeth. It's just funny because he is in such a selfish place right now that I don't think it even occurs to him that I have them all the time on my own and I have to make them do the unfun things, and make them go to bed on time and have rules and structure (more rules than "don't fart on Dad.") He just has no appreciation for it at all.

Anyway, he kept talking about his apartment this and his apartment that - does he think I want to hear about that? Is he just an idiot, or am I doing *that* good a job of being happy around him that he doesn't think it crushes me when he talks about it? Sigh. So he hugged me twice and then off he went to go install his lights in his fancy new place. I will see him tomorrow afternoon as we all do a martial arts class together. I think by then I can get some good PMA going and be happy - it's easy to be happy when I get to punch and kick things!

I think that he is probably feeling pretty awesome right now. He has a cool new apartment, his kids idolize him, his sister was here all weekend so he had fun, I am being ultra cool about everything and hey, if he gets tired of his exciting new life he can always come back to me. Life is grand for him right now - there is nothing pushing him to take a deeper look at himself or what he's doing or his contributions to the demise of our M.

I just wonder how many months (years?) it will take before the novelty wears off and he starts to become a little less self centered. If ever. Sigh.

I think I need to go read the piecing forum and look at the dates so I can remind myself what a long road this is going to be. I sure hope it gets easier because I feel like the past six weeks has taken 15 years off my life.

[Accuray]

Melissa, do you think there is an OW? It's unusual (but not unheard of) for someone to jump out of a marriage fairly suddenly without another person waiting in the wings. I think it's good to know because it influences what you should do. Have you seen any signs that would indicate OW other than the all to familiar script he is giving you?

If only we could deal with our shock and loss first, and our wayward spouses second it would make it so much easier than both at once!