She's gonna make it.....

[albamarie]

Your husband wants you to remain as the stanchion, pillar, he does not want you to be a defective RT.
He already has that.

Cadet, this is right on. My H has said these words almost exactly.

Linda, you know how much my H talks. He has said this to me. It's like they need both sides. I call it tethering.

It hurts us Linda, we feel the pain they are trying to escape. But, at the same time, we don't want to cut that line, so we push forward.

The trick is not to let it take us with! Hold on my friend!

[Wonka]

I mean it cuts to the very core of standing. Do we stand for the marriage by staying in the marriage or leaving the marriage?

You get what I'm saying?

I don't agree with his behavior. I think he needs help. Desperately. But, am I enabling the behavior by staying married to him?

Is RosaL enabling by allowing him to live in the house?

Heather,

Standing for your own marriage is a CHOICE you make every single day. No one is forcing you to stand...there's no gun to your head.

Would you want to kick out someone who has a 103-degree fever? Likewise someone who has MLC. It is a sickness that affects the brain and it is an invisible 'disease.' You don't kick out a MLCer because it is just damned too inconvenient to you, feeling indignant over OW/OM, and feeling that one's "enabling" the MLCer. Crazy!

Linda did set a boundary with H over RT. They are not allowed to Skype in front of Linda in the house. So H made the choice to confine his Skyping in his own room with the door closed. That is not control exerted by Linda.

[uRworthy]

thanks Wonka. I am having trouble getting my thoughts together today.

[Portia]

Rosa,

Hope you are doing well today.

Draw the boundary of a locked bathroom door with some great music, candles and a bubble bath. Put up a Do Not Disturb Sign. Or like when we were kids - No Boyz Allowed!! Especially those with Bogie Booties.

The good thing I have discovered about MLC is that they are truly never gone, even if you think so. We really do have the gift of time and we are not crazy enough to think it is running out on us right this very minute.

Thinking of you...

[RosaLinda]

I just wrote a long message, and it disappeared, what's with that?

[LoisB]

I'm imagining it Linda.

It says you are awesome!!!

Heather

[RosaLinda]

Hahaha Heather, no it said YOU are awesome! Thank you everyone for your thought provoking posts over the past day.

Job: thanks for posting that link to your thread on depression Job. It is so helpful, as you say, to comprehend the incredible pain our spouses are in, to understand them, and it makes our stand a bit easier. I think this is SO important that I'm going to copy the symptoms here.

The symptoms Job lists include "persistent irritability, excessive guilt, shame, low self-esteem, difficulty experiencing pleasure, changes in sleep, appetite and weight....it affects a person's health, his relationships, the ability to work efficiently, ability to concentrate and think clearly....behaviors designed to keep someone from feeling depressed include chronic aches and pains, compulsive social activities: partygoing, dating, avoidance of being alone, workaholism, and thrill seeking....impulse-control problems: rage attacks, sexual compulsions, shoplifting and gambling."

Familiar huh? Heather, I think this might help explain why setting boundaries with MLCers seems to be a little different from setting them with alcoholics. I am not up on al-anon, what do you think?

Cat04: Thanks for addressing my concern about your "serial MLCer" H, Cat. I did ask more out of curiosity than out of any belief my H might react exactly like your H did. Your description of your H as a "serial MLCer" spooked me because someone had just told me that she thinks my H will never truly snap out of MLC, but will alternate between months of sanity and months of affairs for the rest of his life. But he has only done this once, a multiple MLCer maybe but not really "serial." Yet. I was interested in how many times your H has been in and out of MLC, and if he ever recovered and stayed out. How sad that he has been fighting it on and off for 16 years. I'm glad you two are able to maintain a stable friendship for coparenting now.

Mach1: Thank you so much for your explanation of how men perceive and handle affairs and spewing, Mach. I have come to understand that men and women truly are different, and have different emotional needs and ways of dealing with things. In fact, I am grateful for having obtained this understanding due to my H's MLC, and think if he ever pulls out, think I'll be able to be a much better wife to him.

He is a pretty mild stay-at-home MLCer in comparison to the crap some other LBS have to put up with. He has had some truly evil moments, especially in the first year or so, but really only spews every month or two now, mostly in response to his RT spewing at him. Counter spewing! In fact Wonka calls H a kitty kitten MLCer So my method of validating/walking away usually works pretty well.

But I like Cat's and uRw's boundaries on spewing. I think I'll try something like this next time H REALLY gets out of control. What do you think? "You can think what ever you want H, but it's not okay to speak to me that way. When you speak to me like that I will leave the room." cause that is what I was doing anyway! Might as well reinforce it with him.

Nero: "nokidding. if he quit the ow and just got normal - i could forget it and never revisit it again,it he didn't cheat & lie allover the place." Me too. I could forgive him in a heart beat, forget it, without even an apology. If only.....

Cadet: thank you SO much for explaining that our Hs want us to be their stanchion and NOT a second, defective OW. That I can be, a steadfast wife. I will give him all the time he needs to get out of MLC. Well maybe not 16 years, like Cat04's H, but a good long while if necessary.

I remember Holly06 writing something like "If you put a deadline on your "stand" then Lucifer knows what he has to do to defeat you." Made a big impression on me!

Wonka: thank you for being such a good friend. You are a great resource go-to person because of your personal experiences with MLC, but actually I think you are just a wise, loving and intuitive woman. You give me the courage to Stand my own way, with few boundaries besides keeping H's skype phone sex sessions in his own room behind closed doors. And I know that I can depend on your for help if and when I need to set stronger new boundaries. Like when you gave me the words to say to H to let him know I was not driving him to the airport. Do you remember?

Heather: you wrote "I don't agree with his behavior. I think he needs help. Desperately. But, am I enabling the behavior by staying married to him?"

We all have to DB our own way. We all have different tolerances. I can see how much you are hurting Heather. It must be so so painful to have your H living with his OW for the past 2 years. My H living with RT for just 30 days almost broke me. I am trying to trust the process, and for me, that means to trust it completely. MDW wrote: "It is very important to give your husband space. He needs time to think, feel and experiment, even if part of the experimentation involves another woman....The one thing you have to keep in mind throughout this journey is that your husband will have to find his own answers....Letting go is amazingly difficult, but unless you do, your marriage probably won't work out. You have to learn to detach from your husband's confusion and let him struggle through it until he sees a clearing."

That is what I am trying to do. If it takes a couple of skanky OW bandaids for my H to be able to come out of this tunnel, I think I can bear it. I can be that stanchion Cadet talks about. I can see how strong you are becoming Heather, that you are really thinking and growing. I LOVE your to-do list, especially changing the way you look at yourself from artsy fartsy flake to artistic savvy woman. And detaching. That is a big one for me too. You have inspired me to write a list of my own! Thanks!

H is fine after his surgery, no baseball bats were required to keep him in line. But thanks for the offer DMR and Rose! He is back on his selling-all-of-my-favorite-things binge. He decided to sell his piano again, and also decided to sell both of our cars (1997 and 2000 models) and buy one newer model to share, as he is too sick to drive much. So today we went and bought a 2008 for me to drive. This made me a bit nervous. Is H just setting me up with a more reliable car so that he will not feel as guilty when he D me? I decided to put THAT clear out of my mind, and just look at it as one more proof that H cares about me. He does tons of little things every day that scream "I care" once you know someone's LL!

Eat your heart out RT I hope sexting on skype is really satisfying to you!

[RosaLinda]

I forgot Portia and Dawn, thank you both for posting. Portia, I am glad that your crazy SO has been contacting you again. Thanks for the reminder that they are never truly gone. Just look at poor Bea and Job! And thanks Dawn, I am going to try to keep Cadet's "stanchion" in mind and Stand a bit longer

[BrightFuture]

Linda, I’m glad the surgery went well. After reading your update that your H is talking about selling the piano again, I thought of something interesting. I just remembered that when I’m stuck in some funk for some time, I tend to look for something to change in my house, or in my life in hopes that it would get me out of the funk. It could be the same with your H. He is stuck, there is no doubt about it. RT is probably continuing to pressure him, but he doesn’t want to make a big decision. So, he is trying to do something that he thinks will propel him forward, like selling the piano. I think he does other things for you because he truly cares, even on subconscious level. Enjoy your “new” car!

[Pudmuddle]

Linda, I was having low pma again, and I read your post. You have inspired me to pick myself up again and go on. Stand a little longer. Love the Lucifer quote, kinda creepy to think about! If you can do this, so can I. thank you.

Heck at least you got a car out of it!