DARK - how do you do it right? I need help BADLY

[DTM]

Well I had a few days off and tried not to be around the house too much. As I expected, my W said she rather enjoyed when I was on night shift..I guess she feels obligated or pressured somehow when I'm around, even though I don't do a darn thing with her.
I had a moment yesterday, my W was obviously in a depressed mood as we were taking our kids to a local pet store...I asked how she was feeling and received the usual response of her not be happy, feeling sick (she has lost a lot of weight, not sleeping well, etc...same thing I went through). I told her I understood how she must feel and explained to her how I went through the same feelings, depression, weight loss and sleeplessness and how I started my recovery from it, I offered anything I could do to help.
She responded with a "I don't want to be with you anymore" & "I don't want to live with you anymore". This was a little bit of a change from "let's be friends and live together" just a short time ago.
This led to a brief R discussion and I felt compelled to share Michelle's video on WAW...specifically I related to this video because it's extremely similar to our situation. She listened to it in the car and then started crying. I'm sure I didn't make any ground with that move but I'm so tired of watching an smart woman seemingly make the worst decision possible and not be willing to dig deep and understand that positive change and happiness is possible in our marriage.

I have been feeling worse than a total stranger, hardly speaking to the woman I love and doing my own thing and just spending time with our kids. I've been keeping busy. It's been about 4 months since my W has shown any resemblence of love towards me and since March that I found out about her EA/PA with her girlfriend.
My thought is that since my W doesn't yet have state residency that she might be waiting until January (6 months residency) to file, if she has the heart to do it. I will not file for D and I will not encourage her to do it either. If she wants it she can pursue it herself. I figure that gives me time to continue working on me and showing her friendship.
I don't know if that is the right way to feel or act.

I finished reading the 5LL and 5LL for children, I thought both books were excellent and only wish I had read them years ago. I did share both with my W and she commented that she thought it odd that all the sudden I'm reading all these books. As is said in Michelle's video - a man in my situation has made a profound change which is lasting - the only problem is getting the emotionally detached W to believe it and want to come back.

She is so far into the belief that once a woman is emotionally disconnected that there is ZERO chance of getting it back...even after 14 years of being together and two awesome, young kids. You would think I was a monster, adulterer or violent abusive husband the way she has cancelled me out of her heart.
I can only imagine that her EA with her girlfriend is still going strong and I'm going to have a serious tough time winning her back. At this point she loves her cell phone more than me.

Any support, words of wisdom and encouragement much appreciated.

[2ndtimearoundCA]

I told her I understood how she must feel and explained to her how I went through the same feelings, depression, weight loss and sleeplessness and how I started my recovery from it, I offered anything I could do to help.
She responded with a "I don't want to be with you anymore" & "I don't want to live with you anymore".

Not sure it is a good idea to bring up yourself when showing sympathy to your w. You are making it about you and not her. I am not surprised by her response. Just listen and say things like "I am sorry you are felling that way" but don't bring up YOU

I felt compelled to share Michelle's video on WAW

Bad idea. Giving books, showing videos... It is pressure that a WAW does not want

I can only imagine that her EA with her girlfriend is still going strong and I'm going to have a serious tough time winning her back. At this point she loves her cell phone more than me.

Your w is having an ea with a woman? Is she questioning her sexual orientation? Sorry if I missed your comments about this before?

[DTM]

Thanks for the reply - I figured I made some mistakes and also thought that the video was probably adding pressure...to be honest seeing her cry was about the second time in months that I saw any emotion from her.
I see how I need to concentrate on validating her feelings and leave it at that...thank you.

Regarding the EA, yes she had and EA/PA with her 'best friend' girlfriend back in December 2012 and I found out about it in March 2013. She supposedly broke off the phyical part but I would say with confidence that the EA is still alive and well even though they are 700 miles apart now (we moved from NC to FL)

This is a big part of her 'unhappiness' because she is away from her girl.

I don't know if she is questioning her orientation, I think it was just a convenient way to get her emotional needs met with someone in a similar situation. I don't believe it went much further than hugs and kisses...but isn't that more than enough!

She has travelled back to NC twice for 1 week each time since we moved and stayed with this woman...I'm sure you can imagine how I felt about that.

I spoke to her this morning and once again told her that I respect the way she feels and I'm sorry she feels that way. I told her I don't have any expecations and that I am here as her friend with HOPE.
She is stuck in her belief that she cannot get her emotional connection back with me, she states she does not love me. We do live in the same house, as convienent roommates...separate bedrooms for the last 1 1/2 months now.

Our 14 yr wedding anniversary is coming up mid November..I'm so torn as to what to do about it.

[DTM]

I was invited to Key Largo with some friends during my anniversary week, I'm torn as to if I should go or not. I had mentioned it to my W that I was thinking of going (just me on a trip) to see if she had any interest and left it alone for a while...then found out that she mentioned to a family member that I was going (alone)...so I imagine that means she's not interested or she would've said so.

Sounds like a fun anniversary celebration...ugh.

[FlyOnTheWall]

Your are giving her your entire playbook, there is not any mystery left. She needs to be able to miss you before theres any chance of R. Standing for your marriage doesn't mean share things she doesn't want from you right now.

Take the trip, don't tell her much about it. Your going on a trip, period!! Don't even think about bringing up your anniversary with what she's saying to you right now.

You have got to stop trying to convince her, show her, tell her how you feel. Make your changes, she might notice she might not, but make those changes for you, cause u need to make them anyways.

Its ok to backslide occasionally, its gonna happen, but you really need to get into a mindset that you ARE going to stick to the plan!!! You need to limit those mistakes to ZERO over time.
Don't say things like you don't have expectations but have hope ?? Your setting yourself up as a doormat. She has to get to a point that she thinks she might lose you. Right now with what your doing, all your saying is keep living your life, i'll be here for you. That's not attractive.

Stop trying to think what she might be thinking, cause A. you have no clue, B. Theres nothing you can do about it anyways but lose focus on your own goals.

Make yourself a list. What would you like to change about yourself, what can you be doing better?
GET TO WORK, focus on your kids, be the best damn dad you can. Get out of the house. Find a new hobby, or start a new one. Take a cooking class, or a dance class. Try not to be "home" so much while your wife is there. But always come home with a smile on your face. Rearrange the furniture in the bedroom you sleep in.
Fake it till you make it, you and I know a lot of what you will be doing is a total façade for a while. But you need to get on the horse and show your willing to ride off into the sunset.

These things tend to take at least a year if not 2 to play out one way or the other. Right now, your playing into a fixed deck and your showing your cards. We all think/thought our spouses were incapable of such actions, yet here we are. Its time you make some changes too, but be positive, supportive, and let your wife go in a loving way. You are really going to have to learn some patience with yourself. The patience and the detachment are absolutely the hardest things to adjust too.

Tell yourself right now, out loud, I CAN DO THIS. Tell yourself everyday that. When you let your mind take over, and start over thinking things, break that list out you made, read it over and over until you pull yourself out of that funk and get back to the I CAN DO THIS. You need to get those emotions in check. It takes work, it takes time, is your wife worth making those changes in yourself?

[2old]

Very well said Fly.....

[DTM]

I appreciate the well spoken reply. It made a lot of sense and you're right, it's the hardest thing I've ever had to do. I find myself always looking for the next way to "fix" it - heck I spoke to her grandmother today (she is going to visit her this weekend)...that was a stupid idea because she divorced her husband after 37 yrs and couldn't be happier (he really did have his issues). The only good thing about it is she's a good woman and she knows how dearly I love her grand-daughter...but ultimately she will only tell my W to do what makes her happy. I also feel I got some confirmation from grandma about my W's plan to file for D once she has residency because she said to me "well it's not over yet, don't you need to wait for residency or something first?"..who knows, mindreading..etc..but she said it not me.

That's not a good example of detaching at all.

Not even recogizing our 14 yr anniversary makes me feel like a guilty, unloving POS. I hate feeling like that and I find myself thinking that what if she expects something (a card, a note, anything) and I do nothing...does it work to my favor or against me?

Leaving on a trip without her or my kids...well I guess I can do that since she found it quite acceptable to head back to NC twice for a week each to see her girl...I just need to man up and do it.

I have taken up some new hobbies..although I am participating in both with my son...which I see as a positive?

I know I can't change what my W feels or how she acts...I am just so in denial that the woman I love and married could turn into this person and say the things she says. I need to ignore it, not believe it and let it go.

I did do something out of the ordinary the other night...I was off and it was 11:30 at night..she was still up, I went to the bedroom, got dressed nice, threw on the cologne and went out..came back a few hours later without saying a word...she knew I was leaving and she never asked anything about it that night or the next day.

I guess I just need to move to more of NC state and just be there for our kids because you're right...there's no mystery about what I'm doing..I always lay it right out in front of her and she knows that I'm here waiting for her...doesn't have the least bit worry that I'll do anything rash....divorce or othewise.

What would be a good way to open up a new mystery novel..I need something that gets me moving in the right direction because I'm in a constant backslide.

[DTM]

I'd love to get some nice divorce lawyer mail sent to the house...although at this point she would probably welcome it instead of worry about it!!!!

[S4tk]

I appreciate the replies. I will readily admit that I certainly fell into the trap of doing ALL the things my wife said she wanted..to the point of suffocating her (her words)..I definitely see how it pushed her further away and made the situation worse.
We do still live in the same house, roommates is the correct term it appears.
My biggest worry is that she dtill has a strong emotional connection & bond with her best friend (the other woman) who fortunately lives in another state now that we moved. I strongly believe that until she makes a choice to stop loving her (constant phone calls, text, facebook, etc) and direct her energy back towards me she will never begin to fall back in love.
When we had this discussion she clearly stated that she does not love me, does not know how to get the love back and is quite unsure if she wants to anyway....but then in the same sentence she will say maybe one day she will ask me back and at that time it will be up to me to accept her or decline. She has told me to move on - go date other women...do my thing. This worries me because it almost seems like a trap to me..to see if I will give up on her. Well, after much thought (I'll be honest here) I went out on a date yesterday (she was out of town with the kids) and it made me feel very indifferent...happy that someone wanted me and sad that it wasn't my wife who I want. I have finally come to terms with patience, time and space and plan to give her all of the above with hope that she will eventually find a reason to miss me and the good that I bring to her and our children's lives. I have quit saying "I love you" and basically stopped pushing any talks about the relationship. I still "DO" for her..like I always have, helping where I should. It's absolutely heart breaking to basically ignore the woman I love...and I think for men who finally "get it" (the wake up call) it's unfair for a woman to think that things will go back to the way they used to be instead of believing they just won the lottery. Going back for me is the last thing I would ever do...why would I want to be that person who caused so much pain in myself and the woman I promised to love? I don't know how to get her to believe that the past is the past...she is stuck on it and truly thinks that since I hurt her she will be hurt again. She is "protecting herself" and has convinced herself that she should not love me again. I will say one final word for now, her family (mom and grandmother) were visiting this past weekend and they both see my change and they both are against a divorce...but they both very much support their child (grandchild) in whatever decision she wants to make. Grandma said to me before she left "make her miss you"...that made me tear up. It [censored].
I'm open to any an all advice...I can guarantee you that this is one man who does "get it" and want my marriage to be better than it ever was....I just need her to believe it, see it and want it too.

DTM,

I am reading your thread and I am in the same situation, similar timeline too. Just no OP that I am aware of. Good luck. I will pray for you and we will "stand" for our marriages together. Keep posting here.

s4tk

[DTM]

S4TK - thanks brother. I know I'm not alone out there and it's good to see other guys standing by their marriages....as tough as it is.

The one thing that I know my W wants that she feels she isn't getting is "absolute expectationless space" - I made that up..but it fits. I give her plenty of space, we hardly have a conversation anymore, we sometimes sit separately at our childrens events, I hardly ask questions and moved simply to logistical (food shopping, bills, or kid related questions) I've moved to the spare bedroom, etc etc. We still share meal time and do on occasion eat out with our kids but it's nothing like a couple anymore.

I've heard her say that on the few weekly occasions where I might touch her shoulder, get a quick hug, or run my hand through her hair to say goodbye or etc (a distant attempt by me to still show I love her) she thinks I EXPECT something in return and that IF she were to give me anything even remotely resembling LOVE that I would take it the wrong way and think she is softening up. I've been without my W's love for 5 months and almost 10 months since I found out about her EA/PA with her girl...trust me I don't have any expectations anymore (and I've told her this).
The toughest thing for me to do is to act like I don't care or love her...and God forbid, treat her like she is treating me. It may be the very thing that needs to be done but I don't seem to have the capacity to treat her like that. Maybe if I did she would 'miss me'...I don't know.

I do know that I'm not as depressed as I was just a short time ago and I do recognize that as each week goes by I am able to give more space and less pressure...but I find myself backsliding often with just the a simple glance at her knowing she "doesn't love me" or when I think about how she is just stalling for time.

I also recognize that if I don't get my ass in gear and show 100% patience and space that I am going to push her right out the door come time she gets state residency in January...so I know I have work to do and I need to dicipline myself to sticking to what I've read and learned and stop trying to "fix it". The best thing I can do is be her friend and SHE needs to see it and believe it by January or I can pretty much guarantee she'll file.


Time is ticking.

Best wishes to you brother - I'm probably not the guy to come to for advice but if you need someone to talk to I'm here.