She's gonna make it.....

[BrightFuture]

Spell check. Not refereeing, haha. Referring.

[RosaLinda]

I'm glad you've noticed your Hs being called to the mother ship too, Pud and Heather. I think Cadet is probably right, that the "spacing out" is probably due to depression. My H is horribly depressed; depression is the underlying cause of all MLC, right? 

Bea, I've also wondered if H would love me better if I could whip up a bit of RT's nasty aggressiveness and bossiness, but like you, don't care to become a bully. Plus I asked H if he wanted me to act more like RT and demand he get his lazy ass off the couch and get a job. His answer was that he's not an easy person to live with, and my easy going nature is the only reason we've been able to stay together for 38 years. I guess that means no, but it doesn't stop him from being infatuated with RT's odious pushiness. 

"Isn't that part of the fermented oatmeal recipe?"

thanks FY, you always make me laugh! It must be that humor class you took!!  Bright, thanks for dropping by! I'm sure you're right and RT WAS referring to H's surgery tomorrow, but WHY? Why is she so anxious for H to have surgery? His ability to have S-E-X was my first inclination. But SweetRed is probably correct, and "things might not be as important or exciting as I'm making them out to be." uR is always saying that the relationship between our spouse and the OP is nothing like we think it is. So maybe this is NOT some secret sexual code like I was assuming. Just some Russian foolishness or other. 

H has been practicing his dance moves for the distancer-pursuer dance contest these past 2 days, but I'm not playing. Yesterday afternoon H acted as if I did not exist, as if he was looking right thru me, so I went into my room to read and eat pretzels and did not say one word to him all night. Today...joking, teasing, lots of eye contact. He even asked me if I wanted anything from the store, and picked up a bag of steamers, my favorite food in the world. 

Maybe he's nervous about tomorrow. Good thing RT won't be with him. She doesn't believe in medication and would probably insist H undergo hernia surgery with only a couple of dollops of fermented oatmeal and some vodka. 

[MileHigh]

Good thing RT won't be with him. She doesn't believe in medication and would probably insist H undergo hernia surgery with only a couple of dollops of fermented oatmeal and some vodka. 

A good crack on the head might help ease the pain, too. Got a rolling pin or baseball bat handy?

[Whiterose]

MH. Hahahahahaha. Someone pass Linda a bat please!

Linda, the week before H left we were having a conversation while watching tv. We even laughed. Very easy. And then GONE.....no idea that this was normal. I even told my girlfriend, hadn't even seen this site yet, that it was like the light went out in his eyes.

Keep it up lovely lady!

[cat04]

I decided to bring this to your thread...

Cat04, this really scared me: "My X, was a "serial" MLCer. That is to say, he was snapped out of the first crisis period without ever completing the MLC. When he returned to the tunnel after losing his grandparents, it was done with a vengance." My H did this, was in crisis for 3 years, "snapped out of it" for 5 months, then jumped back in feet first. You say you are not reconciled; did your H ever escape out of MLC?

Rosa,

First I want to say that I haven’t read your threads and I am not totally up to par on your sitch…

Secondly, my answers are not your answers. Please understand that. Every situation is very unique.

I am sorry this scared you. I am not really sure why though and I would like to explore that…

I didn’t know about MLC, QLC during the first crisis period. What I knew was my H hated me and then when I finally let go, he decided to stay. We had quite a few very good years (save one instance) inbetween the bombs. I was simply grateful and happy that we had reconciled.

When it started the second time (07/08), THAT was when I learned about MLC, saw all of the signs (and when I looked back they had been there the first time as well). That was when I learned what I was dealing with. I stood for a very long time and there was for me, a breaking point.

I am the reason that there was no reconciliation this time. I became healthy and happy and as I observed H, I realized that while I still loved him, there were just some things that I couldn’t reconcile within my own mind and heart in a way that would have given a reconciliation a fighting chance. For me to have continued to stand, simply to reconcile the M, would have been unfair to both of us at that point.

Has he escaped the tunnel?

As we maintain a pretty comfortable coparenting relationship/friendship I do get to have communication with him on a semi regular basis. I consider it more “old friends” but not “great friends” now.

It is an interesting question…most days, I want to say as far as he is capable of at this point in time.

I have seen regret, introspection, maturing, and some acceptance. I have also seen times where he has wanted to go back into the tunnel, and I see him fighting to keep that from happening for more than a few days. This is something he has been struggling with on and off for about 16 years now. I have no idea if he will ever dive head first back in or not. No one can really predict that. I hope for his sake that it doesn’t happen.

I hope you asked that more out of curiosity than as a guidemap for something…

"You were hurt, and angry, and although you left the room to regroup, you still walked away from this. That will come across as a weakness in the eyes of a MLCer, and it makes you vulnerable to them.

How was that different, than in the past ??"

This is how I usually handle my H spewing at me, Mach. Validate what he had to say, and then walk away before I cry in front of him. Would it be better to just stand there?

I wanted to respond to this as well.

There came a point with the spew that I had to set a boundary because like you, I usually ended up crying, sometimes in front of him, sometimes in private.

I finally decided that that wasn’t good for me.

The boundary I set, finally, was firmly stated and was simple. “One day you will figure out that I am not to blame for all of your unhappiness. I do not deserve to be talked to in this manner. When you can speak to me like an adult, I will listen. If you can’t, then don’t speak to me at all.” And then I walked into my room and shut the door.

There were a few days of no speaking whatsoever on my part(yes I had a livein). Then trivial stuff was approached. Eventually more in depth conversations happened.

So while yes I walked away, which Mach said looks vulnerable, the WAY I did it did NOT make me appear vulnerable. I was not angry. I was not sad. I was not yelling. I was calm, firm, and rational. And I backed it up by ignoring attempts to be baited into something. It was only when he approached me in a manner I was willing to accept, did I respond and engage in conversation with him again.

It is truly possible to set and enforce boundaries that are good for you without being controlling or a bully.

[job]

Cadet is correct when he said that the "spacing out" is part of the depression. Have you read the thread called "In Tandem--MLC and Depression"? It's got a lot of good info on it and there is a second part to it as well. I'm going to post the link for the first part just in case you've not read it.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=121351&page=1

[Mach1]

The boundary I set, finally, was firmly stated and was simple. “One day you will figure out that I am not to blame for all of your unhappiness. I do not deserve to be talked to in this manner. When you can speak to me like an adult, I will listen. If you can’t, then don’t speak to me at all.” And then I walked into my room and shut the door.

There were a few days of no speaking whatsoever on my part(yes I had a livein). Then trivial stuff was approached. Eventually more in depth conversations happened.

So while yes I walked away, which Mach said looks vulnerable, the WAY I did it did NOT make me appear vulnerable. I was not angry. I was not sad. I was not yelling. I was calm, firm, and rational. And I backed it up by ignoring attempts to be baited into something. It was only when he approached me in a manner I was willing to accept, did I respond and engage in conversation with him again.

Thanks Cat....

I was thinking about how to answer this....

I do want to add to this from my perspective...

Dealing with a MLCer can be vary quite a bit depending on if it is a Woman in MLC, or a Man in MLC.

I'm not big on percentages, although I would venture that there are a lot more spewers with the Men, then there are with the Women.

Women in MLC tend to not spew as much, although they are capable. Women (from my perspective) tend to be colder, more closed off, yet when the DO strike, they strike hard at the LBS. They know the LBS better than anyone, and know EXACTLY how to strike, and when. They tend to strike with more emotion (which the LBS Male isn't prepared for).

To consider my answer to JFun, you have to consider that I was speaking to him Man to Man with this, from my experience.

I am not going to engage, and I hope not to start some sort of barbaric discussions about Men being cavemen, and all, yet there ARE certain characteristics that have been proven over time that still hold true. In the majority of the homes today, the Male is viewed as the head of household.

And no matter how hard, or how much it is pushed, and no matter how untrue it may be, that is just the way things are still acted out.

So while I understand, that most of you Ladies, and Ladies everywhere are far superior to us guys, you still get a bad rap due to stereotypes, traditions, and old school way of thinking.

Soooo....

Keeping with that, when the LBS guy gets the bomb, it is probably the most emotion that he has exerted within the relationship in YEARS....

THAT....gives the Female MLCer ALL of the power in the relationship. And as most of you have learned ( or should have learned by now). MLC is about power, and control.

The Male MLCer handles that emotion and power through spewing, and belittling (beat them into submission, and another example of how poorly most Men handle raw emotion), whilst the Woman MLCer keeps that power, and uses it only when necessary. If they are live-ins, then the "facade" is very important to them. And they try to show that they are still in the relationship to the average person looking from the outside.

They seem to control more through manipulation, rather than spewing....

So my point is....finally....

That JFun needed to stand up, and remain firm with his boundary to show that he is not the emotional mess that she left quivering in the corner.....

He needed to remove the emotion from the boundary, and take control of the room BEFORE she took it away from him....

It sounds barbaric, that much I am aware of.


Venus and Mars stuff....

And the difference in understanding the dynamics of MLC, and not yet understanding....

[nero]

hey linda -

i was having an observation about the "shutting off" thing- and somehow it alllll got lost somewhere. at least - i can't find it or see it-

i wanted to throw in - what if this::":

for me - (yeah, i know, i'm always analyzing & comparing (what can i say- it's my life at the moment) what is going on with me and my family as well as h. there are similarities going on.

i have observed h "shut off" rite in my face. mwd says it rite out- when you talk about r, or sitch - he'll close down. and he does. shut the windows & pull down the blinds.

i have also noticed that my sister shuts off around my mom. she began a few years back- her way of dealing with something she just can't stand (the constant re-visiting of alllll my mom's pains and gripes with various people & sitchs). she hates it- she can only remain in the same room if she blocks it all out & does not participate. i used to think poorly of her - like why bother being there if you're not going to talk & respond & listen...... WELLLLLLL......

NOW I FIND myself doing it- i just cannot deal with allllll the animosity and hard feelings and emotional responsibility for her happiness - ANYMORE. NOTMY JOB.


then i think - OMG - IS TAHT ME??? IS IT THE SAME AS THAT?? (AT LEAST - does it seem & feel the same to h) and if so, wtf do we do about it???) he's not depressed - he doesn't want to "deal with it" - that's all.....it's not "FUN".

i hate thinking it- i hate thinking my h views me like that- like my griping mother on an awful "roll"... LIKE i'm trying to make him responsible for my happiness and it's suuch a drag to him. (and yet- here's the man that is blaming me for allllllll his unhappiness???!!! (AND i and we are walking away from THAT & BLOCKING IT) WTF BIG TIME. SOOOO - like, we're alllll "doing it" to each other.

BUT - then i think of myself and i do it too (well, am more and more) it's self defense when i cannot stand it anymore- either her or him -

then i think - if my "talking about how i feel" IS SOOOOOOO awful - (either in general or because it's pointing out stuff that makes him feel bad in response???

how the heck to make that call. either it's just longevity and "nothin new" to hear or it's specifically his response to "the bad news about himself". he always says it's "picking on him" - if i say anything at all honest about this mlc stuff. .no kidding - he's like a kid- he doesn't want to acknowledge anhyting about it (mlc) and go about his life as he is- unfettered by reality..(well, my reality - or the "reality of me" that is....

i despair of it ever being anything than what it is - FOREVER.

nokidding. if he quit the ow and just got normal - i could forget it and never revisit it again,it he didn't cheat & lie allover the place.

i don't know if that will or could ever happen. why he bothers to maintaIN THIS R with me- i do not know. well, i do - he loves me but he has this wonderful & exciting new hobby- and it's ow & so on - and he doesn't want to quit it i guess (his new addiction?) he's always got something.

i'm still here - but , JUST.

when he's nice i want more - and when he's bad i "want more" than that.

SO, DID i say anything of use here or what? i don't know if my mother picks up on me "shutting down". i'd guess she does. sometimes she doesn't care- in general i think she knows there's a "disconnect". i'm sorry about that- i swear my stinkin head will explode if i engage sometimes. maybe it's like that- self defense. maybe the intensity of my sitch with family is my own sort of "mlc" of the moment- idk

where the heck it ends - idk.

oh well- another day- can we do this???? i guess for want of a better or other "life" we can. whattya say?? at this moment it's this or nothin (or so it feels) is that acknowledging all the bad junk and letting the problems & pain flow over you and around you- does it accomplish something - facing them allllllll - is it DEALING with it??? or something nuttier? feelin a bit nutty alot of the time - this thinkin stuff is burning out brain cells i'm pretty sure. idk

xxoo

xxoo

[LoisB]

The Male MLCer handles that emotion and power through spewing, and belittling (beat them into submission, and another example of how poorly most Men handle raw emotion)

So, Mach, how should us girls handle the control and manipulation from the boy MLC-ers?

[uRworthy]

Short answer, Lois. With dignity and strength and by taking back your power.