Just read through your entire thread and it feels like I got in the Hot Tub Time Machine. A lot of similarities with your answers and how I answered questions when I first came here. And Mach was the guy that gave me the red pill as well and I can't say enough good things about him. While the journey is a tough one and you'll get mad at the questions at times you'll never go back to the old you if you stick with it.
I think people covered the need/ want stuff but it can be done. My LL is PT and WOA and I slept in the same bed for over 10 months without any touching at all. Did it $uck, yeah...but I lived through it. Could I have went out and found PT somewhere else? Yeah but I would have had to live with that regret and I'm so glad I didn't. And don't listen to Mach's sitting on the hand thing...just gets messy
Since we are so similar there are a ton of places I want to go but let's start with one that I think screams from this post. It's the words obligation and duty. I think Mach asked you about it originally and your response was:
Originally Posted By: JFun51
"Obligation"? "Chivalry"? Are those dirty words? I know they serve no purpose in our conversation.
I couldn't disagree more. I think this is a place to start looking at your motives for why you do things. There are quite a few things you've said in this post that made me think of those 2 words.
During my journey down the rabbit hole I realized that the majority of my adult life were because of an obligation and not because of a true desire. I'm not saying duty and chivalry or anything like that is bad, all I'm saying is that you need to want to do those things for the right reasons. In a M I believe that reason is love. It's not because you were born a man if that makes sense.
So... Do you feel obligated to save M or is it something you really want?
Do you feel obligated to love your W because of how much time you've invested together or do you love her for her?
Do you feel obligated to stand for M for the family or is standing for what you want and believe in what you really want?
Do you feel obligated to be a great dad or is it something you really want (this sounds easier to answer)?
Personality is who the world sees, character is who you are
I agree with above. I have been fighting the urge to initiate physical contact with W as well. I just got lucky I guess and she initiated with me. The last thing I wanted to do was make her feel uncomfortable. Just hang in there for now and hopefully in time she will make the move. I know it stinks, just stay strong. From what I've read, you have the strength.
separated since 9/01/13 M-31 W-36 D-4 Move back home 12/26/13 3 months of tough times Finally in a happy M
Easy answer: I definitely desire to be a better father. I am very grateful that this garbage has allowed me to see the rewards of better relationships with my sons.
Tougher answer: Pretty sure I feel an obligation to save my marriage. I feel obligated because we have brought children in this world together. I feel that way because I respect the institution of family and I believe that people should honor their commitments. The whole knight in shining armor protecting my wife and kids. Worst part is that my actions over the last few years gave not echoed that.
Truth: I believe in standing because I am a strong man that wants to show my boys how to be a man that stands strong for something. I believe in fighting for what you believe in.
I love this woman. She is a wonderful woman that has perservered and given of herself to every one. She is beautiful and sexy. She has a giant heart that cares for so many people.
Both 40 T-22 M-18 S13 S11
Bomb, ILYBINILWY-7/10/13 EA #1-confirmed 7/10/13, ongoing since 5/13 EA #2-9/13/13
Oh man, how I've missed a boys thread. LOL! Hiya Mach, Spartan and t2.
Fun, listen, I get the missing the touch stuff. Um, in a few short words. Get over it. Cant happen now. So, best to get it out of your head. Is it doable? Abso-freakin-lutely. The more you think about it, the tougher it is, right? So......
Ok, so, no to initiating anything. Here's why. She has told you ILYBINILWY. She needs to know you heard her. That is important to the MLCer. Well, to anyone really.
And I get that you want to fix this. I get that you want to help her.
The thing of it is, that you cant do any of that. The reason is that she has to do it. That's the simple truth. She will not come out the other side unless she makes it out on her own. Because if you pull her through, this stuff is going to come back to bite you tenfold.
So, it's time to answer the hard questions. Time to dig in deep and figure out who you are, what you are made of. Time to find out just how hard you are willing to work for your marriage.
And I completely understand if the fact that this is a long haul is a deal breaker for you. It aint for the faint of heart - this.
You have to decide if you are willing to honor your marriage, your wife, your family enough to want to walk this. Your choice.
Good news today. W again tried to push my buttons last night when I came to bed. Sat a texted/messaged for 2 hours right beside me. This behavior used to really set me off. I even noticed her turning her phone towards me so that I could sneak a peek if I wanted too. I found it pretty easy to watch TV and not care. Even when she asked about S12s bball tryouts, I talked with her cordially and went on about my business. I hit Netflix and continued watching a series I've gotten really interested in.
Earlier in the evening I had been the Parent On Duty, picking up joys from practice so she could go to a makeup party at a mutual friends house. Found myself really happy with myself as both boys were excited to tell me about practice and their homework.
Funniest thing this morning: for the first time in a long time W told me goodbye with a smile as she left. Boys always give me hugs and we trade ILYs, but W has been leaving without a word.
Question for today: How nice/cordial/friendly can I be while she goes through this without encouraging cake eating? Or does it even matter if I'm happy and my boys are protected and happy?
Both 40 T-22 M-18 S13 S11
Bomb, ILYBINILWY-7/10/13 EA #1-confirmed 7/10/13, ongoing since 5/13 EA #2-9/13/13
Good on you recognizing the button pushing aspect.
Originally Posted By: JFun51
Funniest thing this morning: for the first time in a long time W told me goodbye with a smile as she left. Boys always give me hugs and we trade ILYs, but W has been leaving without a word.
Yea, no surprise there J...
She didn't get the reaction she wanted with you, so it's time to reel you back in a bit.
Keep your eyes open with this. Reeling you in means that once you get reeled in, you are vulnerable to get chewed up and spit out again with venomous spewing.
Welcome to "the bounce" of the MLCer.
You will have "the bounce" as well, just recognize it for what it is, and try to find a balance within yourself.
Originally Posted By: JF
Question for today: How nice/cordial/friendly can I be while she goes through this without encouraging cake eating? Or does it even matter if I'm happy and my boys are protected and happy?
How nice and friendly can YOU be when YOU are going through this ????
What can you handle ??
Where is your line in the sand ???
Yesterday, you weren't sure if you could do this, and today, you want to snuggle with her whilst she texts her boy toy....
Think I was kidding about the bounce ???
Take in the good times, and let them fuel you through the bad times. And it all revolves around your balance.
Although you really need to figure yourself out fully before you can find said balance....
Pretty sure my line in the sand is PA or doing these things in the presence of my kids. I don't think I could recover from PA.
You don't know what you are capable of, I have been amazed at what I am capable of that I had no clue I could do until this journey. Don't sell yourself short.
Lose the pre-conceived ideas about M, R, manliness, life itself. Beginner's mind, find it, start from scratch.
And as one on the other side of my W's PA...you can get past it. You can allow trust again. If you choose to.
All yours, the choice, the power. While knowing you may get hurt. Life is full of risk. No risk, no reward.
And with W, my experience was that the EA part is more worrisome/hurtful than the PA. She didn't mourn, go through withdrawal from PA OM. EA is where she pains, where she hangs onto. Women tend, generally, to value the emotional part of a R more highly. Think about it.
Maybe re-think that notion of yours, that you can't recover.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
