Intro - hoping for support/advice on DBing

[loualea]

Hi melissag

just read your post and the conversations about needing, time and space and living for himself could have been copied word for word from the ones in my house!

Even the ". ("It's time for me to be selfish." "I don't love you." "No, I will not give you another chance, you already got your last chance," etc. Ouch.

Amazing to me that the WAS always seesm to use the same reasoning.
I answered your comments on my thread, thanks for that. I will take some time out how to follow through without blowing it.
I start coaching tonight. I will let you know how it goes.
It is tricky with no one to talk to, especially if you are trying to maintain your privacy.

[melissag]

We told the kids over the weekend. It was awful. I was pretty sad and, really, MAD. The kids are all over Dad now . . . I am wondering if they think that if they are really loving and good, he will stay. They fight over who gets to sit next to him at meals. It made me feel like crap and I was pretty upset . . . then yesterday I played basketball for an hour (shooting baskets outside my house, slamming the ball into the ground as hard as I could, chasing after it, etc.) and holy cow, I felt like a whole new person afterward! I don't know if it's the time to reflect, the exercise, the endorphins . . . but I was able to get it together, make dinner for the fam, have a fun night and 180 like a pro. H slept with me again (he seems to be doing that more and more, though never two nights in a row).

It's very frustrating how much fun we have together and how connected we are at times, but then he is moving out. I guess I have to remember that while he may be enjoying how things are now, he is still feeling very burned by what happened before, and doesn't trust that things will stay like they are now. I think I really need to

A lot of my frustration/anger comes from the fact that, though I have been taking all the blame and acknowledging my part in how crappy our M became, he truly doesn't see where he went wrong, or that he did go wrong! I was thinking a lot about it yesterday because I have almost convinced myself that this is all my fault, and have been carrying that heavy burden for a while now, and honestly, I think that it truly was a vicious circle . . . we were both hurt and neither of us would go first to change things. It's hard to have my feelings feel totally invalid and irrelevant - but I know I have to get over it because right now I have to put him first.

A question for the expert DBers . . . what do I do when he moves out? I have been really good about it for the most part (though he knows I am upset and don't want him to go) - I offered to take the kids to get some things for his new place, I listen to all their talk about how cool his apartment is and I'm encouraging . . . but I know I am going to lose it when the time actually comes. Am I supposed to pretend like I don't care? That seems impossible. Or can I just be real (without begging, seeming pathetic, talking about the future, etc.) and allow him to see my sadness, but then go back to GAL, etc. after he is gone?

[3boymom]

I am not an expert and don't know the perfect answer, but I think that I would just be real. If you have a huge smile on your face and are faking it, he will just think that you are doing it as part of a game to win him back or control him.

You don't want him to think that you are faking it in this situation, so therefore all of your other changes must be fake and not permanent. The good thing is that you have some time to prepare yourself. There is a lot of room between pretending you are happy about the situation and acting pathetic and begging for him to stay.

Good luck. I know that this is so hard, especially with little kiddos involved.

[AnotherStander]

I guess I have to remember that while he may be enjoying how things are now, he is still feeling very burned by what happened before, and doesn't trust that things will stay like they are now.

He may not even be enjoying things right now, a lot of WAS's will continue participating in family stuff but for them it's just going through the motions. They are deep in the fog and stuff that brought them pleasure before BD doesn't anymore.

I listen to all their talk about how cool his apartment is and I'm encouraging

For kids it's an adventure at first, but that'll wear off in a few months. My kids were really excited about it, the idea of having their own rooms in two different houses seemed fantastic. But a year later they're tired of going back-and-forth and they don't like W's neighborhood or the people in it.

Am I supposed to pretend like I don't care? That seems impossible. Or can I just be real (without begging, seeming pathetic, talking about the future, etc.) and allow him to see my sadness, but then go back to GAL, etc. after he is gone?

I tried to act like I didn't care, but I imagine my W could see I was sad about it. The DB'ing approach is to act "as if" everything is fine even when it isn't. I doubt we're fooling the WAS when we act as if though.

[melissag]

Thanks, 3bm and AS . . .

OK maybe I am fooling myself, but I don't think he is just going through the motions. I think he likes it because (a) he has said as much (and that he wants to send time with me even after he moves out); (b) he is initiating spending time with me even when I give him space; and (c) things are actually much better and we are both behaving much better than we were before BD. It is true, though, I haven't the slightest idea what is going on in his head - he could be totally FOS. I don't think he's an insincere guy, but I do think he is confused and in a very selfish place right now, so he could be changing his mind every hour. I find this is one of the most difficult parts of DBing . . . not knowing what he is thinking and not asking. (Though there are probably plenty of times I don't want to know.) I have to keep reminding myself that we are in a much better place than we were 5 weeks ago, and that he's not going to give me any more than that right now.

I agree about not faking being happy when he moves. Honestly, I don't even think I could. I have made it pretty clear that I am not happy about any of this, so it won't be a surprise for him that I am upset. However, I will make sure not to be too pathetic about it - I can save that for when he is gone and I am alone. I do think in some ways it will be easier to 180, because it won't be a constant struggle to push down my feelings - but then again, I find that having him around and 180ing helps give me a focus. I guess we'll see.

One dilemma about the kids. When we presented this to them, we said that we are going to live separately for a while. They asked how long. H said six months. (That is the term of his lease.) The kids calculated the time and are now counting on him coming back on May 1. My son (7) put it in his calendar. They are sad that it is so long, but they very clearly think that he is coming back on May 1. He has done nothing to disabuse them of this notion. I have no idea WTF he is thinking. (I mean, truly, I don't. I don't bring it up, and he sometimes will say something but I don't even know what of that to believe.) I don't want to ask. But I don't want my kids to be devastated either. Not sure how to handle this, or just let him handle it and butt out.

[Not Quitting]

Hi melissa - got a few minutes so as promised I dropped by your thread.

You're going to see that your sitch will have a lot of similarities to others on this board. I haven't noticed anyone say it to you yet, so I will...Only believe half of what he does and none of what H says. In his mind everything he says and does is justified and is the truth. It's just the way his mind is working right now.

I found it much easier to start detaching after my H physically moved out. For starters, you're probably walking on eggshells around him right now, which means that you're not very relaxed. You mentioned earlier about trouble sleeping - a large part of that is the stress you're going through. If you really feel you need help either see your doctor or a naturopath, depending on how you feel about chemical sleep aids. Sleeping better will improve your general outlook, so it's a vicious circle if you're not getting enough sleep.

My H also told my son that our separation was only temporary while we tried to work things out. In the meantime he's posting pics on FB of him and his OW - our son is a friend on FB so he could see what was going on but no explanation was coming from his dad. Take it day by day with the kids - it's the only thing you can. My son is old enough to understand a bit better and I told my H from the start that I would not lie to our son so if he asked questions he would get an honest answer - and that is exactly what happened.

Nothing about your sitch is going to be fixed overnight. This is, as the vets will say, a marathon, not a sprint. I see that AnotherStander has been posting on your thread - very good source of advice

If you intend to email, text or even talk to H you can always post your ideas on here for feedback before going to your H with it. Keep working on your 180s, build and maintain your PMA (for the kids as well as your own well-being) and GAL. If you need to vent, do it on here not to your H. Journallying or asking advice on here is a great idea. And do not involve parents, in-laws or other family members if you can avoid it. Friends and family will want to see your hurt ending so they may not understand why you are still trying to save your M.

[melissag]

NQ, thanks so much for your response. You are quite right - IRL, not one single person told me I should try to save my M. I do have two close friends who are very supportive of my efforts now that I have explained it, though. So that is good. But, they are married and have no idea what I am going through - they can sympathize but not empathize. So this board is my lifeline.

I'm a little confused about not believing anything H says and only half of what he does. Is the point of that just that I shouldn't go on this roller coaster with him, and instead focus on myself? Is the suggestion that they will lie, or that they are confused, or what? When I am DBing and I am looking to test things out, I kind of have to believe some of his reaction, right? Sorry, maybe I am being too over analytical.

Thanks for all the great words of advice. I am working really hard on not letting my emotions drive my interactions with H. And I think you are right - it may be easier in some ways after he moves out because then I can make sure that every interaction is the way I want it to be, because I will have the time to prepare and make sure I have a PMA.

By the way, how does one get a PMA? I find so far it is more getting rid of a NMA - via exercise is the best way. By 180ing, by GALing. Those things help. Not thinking about the future, what H is doing or what he is thinking help. But that's pretty difficult. I am pretty early in the process, but I am hoping that I can find things that give me a PMA. (Actually, I can think of one - I like wearing nice shoes that click on the floor - it makes me stand taller and feel more attractive. Weird? Maybe.)

And one more question . . . what is your mindset with all of this? Do you allow yourself to think that things are going to work out with your spouse? How do you keep that hope there, without relying on it to get you through each day? That is one of the things I am having trouble with. I start feeling good about GAL, 180ing, his reactions to it, etc. And then one little thing crushes me. (Seeing the new keys on his keychain; him sleeping downstairs on the couch after having been with me the night before; etc.) Would love to hear how others manage their thoughts and expectations.

[PatientMan]

I'm a little confused about not believing anything H says and only half of what he does. Is the point of that just that I shouldn't go on this roller coaster with him, and instead focus on myself? Is the suggestion that they will lie, or that they are confused, or what?

Yes. It means your H is like a crazy person that is capable of rationalizing saying or doing practically anything, so don't let those things he says or does get to you.

You are cool as a cucumber. You are an emotional rock. What he says and does DOES NOT AFFECT YOU. Got it?

When I am DBing and I am looking to test things out, I kind of have to believe some of his reaction, right? Sorry, maybe I am being too over analytical.

Believe his consistent actions more than his words, but really the focus needs to be on yourself. Your most paramount and most difficult task is going to be detaching...getting off of his roller coaster.

By the way, how does one get a PMA?

The best way is to GAL. Find things that bring you joy outside of your M.

And one more question . . . what is your mindset with all of this? Do you allow yourself to think that things are going to work out with your spouse? How do you keep that hope there, without relying on it to get you through each day? That is one of the things I am having trouble with.

You are correct. Hope and expectations easily and naturally go together, and it's important to segregate the two...to have hope, but not expectations.

How?

It's a journey and you have to dig in hard and do the work.

I wish I had more time to post, but there are many others who have more specific (and probably better) advice for you that will come along.

Here's a good tip: Read Sandi2's 37 Rules. Daily.

-PM

[melissag]

Thank you, PM. Yes, I do refer back to the 37 rules quite frequently. I have also started collecting little nuggets from reading tons of threads on here, so I am making a list of those. That way I can look at them whenever I am letting my emotions get the best of me.

I am definitely GALing . . . I've been going out more with my friends (mostly lunch and coffee - not so much up for a night out on the town yet, but hopefully will get there); bought some new clothes; got a fairly significant haircut; started running with my girlfriends (we are all doing couch to 5K together); signed up for a photography class that I have been wanting to take; started to cook more often (in the past, H has done a lot of the cooking); and generally just been busier doing things. Some of this is also 180ing, since somehow (now that I look at it), I would up doing almost nothing for myself and was way too focused on the family unit.

Also for 180s, he said I was too critical - haven't said a critical word to him in 5+ weeks; not enough intimacy - I have been forthcoming with that but only if he initiates it (this one is rough bc I want to initiate to show him but that's pursuing of course); Just basically doing everything differently. Maybe before would have sat out of a fun activity and let him do it with the kids. Nope. Now I do everything. Being less picky about food, the way things are done. Giving him appreciation for things.

Ironic how the 180s are SO easy and in fact, in most cases, much easier than the same olds. I mean, I can't believe the effort I put into looking at things he did in a negative light . . . how exhausting. And stupid.

[chasingpavements]

Hi Melissa. I felt the same way as you when I started doing the 180s, you start feeling better about yourself and about everything in general, and wonder why you haven't been living that way the whole time. Good to shake things up once in a while, and it sounds like you are doing a good job!

-cp