Fog City Coaster continues

[25yearsmlc]

Hey Fly .. Thanks for stopping by! I will have to see if you updated your sitch.

At time of BD in February, there was ton of circumstantial evidence that w was seeing an OM. I don't know if anything physical would have started before BD or not. I never got any clarification on that. That OM is either over or it is casual and still going on, but not frequently. I am not 100% certain anything happened. It is a "Where there is smoke, there is fire" kind of thing.

Why I say that it is a virtual certainty that she has been physical since BD is because we have been separated for 8 months and when she left she said that "she needs sex". Before me, and after her first D, she was involved in other sexual relationships and some of them were very short lived.

Did you read the "rules" for newbies? Believe nothing they SAY and only Half of what they DO.

Why bother with the mind reading? Does it change a single behavior of YOURS? If not, stop torturing yourself.



I actually suspect that she may have gone back to a previous boyfriend or more like "sex buddy". She was clearly not involved in anything serious a month ago because she reached out to me for sex (even though it didn't happen).

useless speculation. No control over it and since you are separated and seem to be saying it's not a deal breaker, it's truly counter productive. And self inflicted pain. That's counter productive and worse, it's destructive. From within.



I have a small amount of fear that she could actually find someone she likes and who likes her back.

Really? Most of us are MOST afraid of that happening. Why poo poo it? Of course it's a fear of yours. You spend A LOT of time thinking about it but you DO nothing about it. So, it's just a way to stay stuck. NOT Change...


W thinks of me as an ex now

so you say. So what? Every interaction is an opportunity to show her change in you.

Thing is, NO WAW comes home to a marriage unless she believes it will be better/different than before.

You seem to be shrugging your shoulders saying "well, nothing I can do...oh well"

and that shows. And it's sooo not a way to attract a woman back.


even though we have done no legal work toward a D or even separation. At this point it is hard for me to be upset with her for anything she does with another man because we are not together.

I get that. But it does not mean you give up. UNLESS you want to, but then you have to admit that and move on. Own that you are giving up.

Seems as if you are not into things that require a long haul amount of effort it if it means really digging deep and looking inside.

The real journey in life is an inward one. Do you get that?

Are you in any form of counselling? I hope so b/c there are a lot of things you skim the surface of, without wanting to really truly LOOK. I think that would be valuable.




My first w had an EA with the next door neighbor; that was very painful to watch. I held out hope,

you "held out hope"...but what did you DO? Did you even confront her or ask her why? Did you want to know?


but when she met a new guy OM2 and was physical with him, I couldn't take that pain and I moved on.

I don't mean to blame you. But these words sound as if you are saying "I did nothing to change and it happened again. So I left."

See what that looks like?


My first w is now married to OM2 and they have a daughter together. My M to w1 ended 10 years ago and we all get along well. I co-parent with w1. She is still married to OM2

Current w told me that her first marriage ended because her h always had his friends around and they had no time as a couple. Also she placed a lot of blame on some weird sex stuff that went on...

I was pretty good with the GALs up until my fall classes started. (I teach at a community college) I am technically just part time but teaching a full load right now. I also develop education content for an online homework system and that is a 75% time job so I am have trouble GALing right now. I do get to the gym often and was racing sailboats over the summer.


here's a bit of a 2 x 4 for you. So get a helmet on. And remember that I'm here trying to help you so that you don't end up here again and MAYBE so you can save this marriage. B/C it's your second one and I can't tell if you learned a thing about yourself, from your first marriage's ending.

That is why most second marriages end in divorce. Only the marriages that end AND TEACH one something about oneself, help improve the relationship skills involved. Otherwise it's just a repeat of the past patterns but with a new person.

Your first wife had not one, but TWO affairs. You sound as if you did not do any work on yourself during or after the first, so yeah, she kept looking for a sub and she eventually found one. ANY insights as to why?

(Maybe now that you two are reasonably peaceful, you could sincerely ask her what she thinks...)

First, imo, GAL does NOT mean just going to the gym. That's for your personal health and it IS good to go.

but it's not new or involving other people or expanding your horizons or pushing your comfort zone or you learning something new or novel or doing something you always wanted to do but held back...

it's just getting in shape. DO MORE. I don't care what your excuses are b/c they are just that.

Here are SOME of the things I did in the interior of Alaska, including in the winter when it was dark 21 hours a day and well below minus 20'F.

I had a baby at the time. An infant turned toddler...

I worked out a lot and looked good

( I either scheduled with older kids help or used the gym that had daycare)

I joined a writer's group. Met some smart people who had interesting "messages."

I used a tanning booth (B/c even though skin cancer risks were bad, it was still better than blowing my brains out...if you take my point)

I saw a therapist, and in the winter I took some anti-depressants.

I volunteered at a woman's shelter, helped others and felt grateful

I took a Conversational French class and later, an Italian cooking class.

I did stand up comedy there (they needed to laugh!) Have done it professionally since.

I auditioned for local community theater roles. Got cast and Met super fun people.

I learned to cross country ski, and went deep sea fishing and yes I hunted some big game too. Did a lot of target shooting too.

Joined the Bd of Director's for Alaskan Wrestling, as our son wrestled and it was a good way to meet other parents and support the team.

I learned to fly, to get my pilot's license

AND I went skydiving. (That was the ONLY GAL activity that costs much. & The symbolism of skydiving was crucial for ME internally and spiritually).

I edited a hunting book. Jobs were scarce and I could do it from home. Turned out to be a best seller.

I volunteered at the kids' schools for PTA and field trips when possible.

I took a pottery class (Very unlike me).

I painted a few colorful paintings to get some color on our WHITE walls (with the snow outside the landscape often looked like black and white film).

I finally joined the Wives Club (I had resisted that for out-dated reasons). I'd been a fool for delaying.

I made two LIFE LONG friends there, and without those women, I am not sure I'd have made it through 3 winters there.

Without them, I'd have had to go south for months at a time and taken the baby with me, and who knows what that would do to our older kids.

I coached two teams.

You can do more. I had a baby, two other kids, lived in a small COLD DARK place, and did what I listed above. I'm probably leaving out a few things too.

Put yourself out more. I read your words and the following words & images come to mind

"apathy", "floating along..", "hoping but not doing"...."waiting to see"

and "Holding back"...and STUCK




To me it sort of feels like w may be pulling away a little more, but it might all be in my head. When I had more of a life, time when by faster. Right now I am taking a step back to see what w does next.

Think that makes her feel taken care of, or what?

I mean, how much effort does that take on your end? Oh, none...note that


My birthday is in a few weeks and then we have the holidays. I have plans to spend the time with my family, but I am curious to see if w reaches out to spend some time with me.

Why not take some control of your life? MAKE PLANS YOURSELF that are appealing to YOU and invite her or whomever. It's YOUR birthday. Don't make your kids or your wife guess what you want to do.

Invite your friends and family and DO SOMETHING FUN. Be appealing and interesting and interestED


According to w1 the reason our m ended was that I could not get along with her family. According to current w, I was not pulling my weight in the relationship.



What do YOU THINK the reason the marriages ended was? I mean, your first w had two affairs you know of, and left you for OM2.

What do you think she meant by saying you did not get along with her family?

RE the present wife, who ought to be the main focus now, what do YOU believe she means and what, if any, validity do you feel there might be to her feeling you don't pull your weight? It's not all about money according to you.

So, maybe it's effort WITHIN the relationship. That's my guess.


I was out of work at the time of BD.

probably VERY significant, don't you think? I mean, seriously...did you read the post I wrote to you?

What is your standard of living? And will hers go UP or down after a divorce from you? It sounds crass but it needs looking at. The whole cave thing, the biological needs and the provider deal...might not be fair, but it does exist in many women I think.

IS the reason you got work, b/c of the BD? What would you have done otherwise? How long had you been out of work?

Current w also said she was not satisfied with our sex life (more recent conversations lead me to believe that she didn't think it was that bad).


"not that bad"...is that a ringing endorsement of passion or what? Come on 2nd, you have to DIG DEEP and face some stuff about yourself and

find what we all find when we do that

flaws we want and need to work on. CHANGE and GROW...


ask yourself how desired your wife felt in the marriage. How much did you SHOW her you wanted her and were willing to pursue her? Be honest about it.

I don't hear ANYTHING about pursuing her here. When we say "read the rules" we don't say they ALL apply. if you were neglectufl, or inattentive, then playing it cool is NOT the best route for you.

make sense?

.

Nonetheless I will work on that for whatever relationship I find myself in next.
Both w's fell out of love with me. Still I am in the same position twice and need to figure out the common things.

My gut says your utter lack of intiative or strong reaction, or showing any passion, (can't tell if you feel it but you don't sound like you show it at all)

and the way you portray yourself as helpless, as if "it happened to you and you played NO role"... "both wives FELL OUT of love with me"

how on earth can you not feel terrified of that always happening if you have nothing to do with it?

Of course you played a role and that ought to make you happy b/c it means you are NOT HELPLESS

you are empowered to learn that you played a role in the demise of your first marriage b/c then you CAN do something about it.

If you were a great husband and wives just "fell out of love" with you, then life and marriage would sure sukk.

You'd be powerless...but then, you would not have to dig deep or look inside and that might feel a lot more appealing to you now than just blaming them or life in general.

But you DO and DID play a role in your position. You're here. What do you want to do with your life?

Be the author of your life and don't let others write how the next chapters go. That is what you have done so far.


is NOT strong sounding or appealing. You use a passive voice in it and I don't know what your childhood was like but it's time to drop it from how you see yourself now. But you did react in similar in both scenarios.

You seem to be floating around like furniture that gets moved where OTHERS move it...and you are content to be there, until you get kicked out.

Women want partners or leaders...what do you make of that comment?



That is enough of a novel for now

You're a colllege professor, right? Okay so maybe you need to

get OUT of your head and get INTO your heart.

FEEL emotions and passions even if they are painful. But feel them and talk to a counselor.

Tell them what you have said here. Get their take on it.

Or look up the Essential Experience workshop back east. It's a profound experience that is for individuals and makes you a better partner and parent and a happier person, living with more clarity and intent.

I think you need it and would love it. IF your w is willing, try attending Retrovaille but that is for COUPLES and she may not be ready to do anything until if and when she believes you have changed.

HER time for change will come but as the one here posting about saving a marriage,

it is up to you/us to take the first step, and the second step and the next 452...

Keep at this. Don't give up.