Who is this woman & what has she done with my wife

[AJM]

While I agree with FY on this for the most part, this isn't about her. This is something she is going to do. Has done. That's yesterday. Tomorrow is a different story. And this is about you and what you're going to do.

Honestly? I don't advise telling the family what she's doing. Won't change her. It may make you feel better in the short term; like you're doing something. But that won't last. It may get people to commiserate with you. But it's not about them, so that won't bring much comfort either.

I've been there. I'm glad I didn't tell her family what she was doing. I did confront her on one occasion when I found a valentine card. Didn't change her. Made her more defensive.

Only you can decide what you're going to do. Your boundaries are your boundaries, and as long as they are important enough to you to "die on that hill" there's nobody here that will tell you what to do.

As you deal with your pain over this, consider the future you. What would you want to see when you look back on your life about how you handled this? Seriously. Do you want to look back and say, "I caught her and I told everyone. They side with me even though she's gone!" Or do you want to live your life and make you the center of it?

What she does or doesn't do, is up to her. You have no influence at this point. You can hurt her emotionally, you can expose her, you can yell or scream. But that won't change what she's doing. These are her choices and she has to figure them out and live with them, the same way you do.

MLC is a b*tch. I don't think she asked for this either. But she has to see whatever she is doing through, at any cost. Have you noticed?

Peace,
AJ

[THX-1138]

...MLC is a b*tch. I don't think she asked for this either. But she has to see whatever she is doing through, at any cost...

Thanks for the advice everyone. And I haven't done anything about confronting her over her 24-year-old boy toy yet. Except for doubling up on my own anti-depressant intake for a couple days.

I quoted AJM above, because I'd like to talk about the concept of responsibility he raised. I've read on the board that MLCer's are hurting, depressed, acting out, etc. But I am not convinced that W didn't ask for this. She is not merely an innocent bystander unable to control herself. Plenty of people have handled mid-life crises without having affairs, and leaving their children, their homes, and their spouses.

I can't accept the premise that my wife is simply blameless in this. I am justifiably furious about what she has done. I don't believe MLC is a disease or a medical psychosis. I beleive it is a snowballing series of really awful decisions which reflect poorly on her character.

Each bad decision adds to the rush she's getting, and each thrill makes it harder to turn around and see what she has wrought. Ultimately, it is about indulging in child-like narcissism, using denial as a defense, and refusing to accept the responsibilities of being a grown-up.

[JFun51]

THX,

I feel your rage. You would be well served to take a deep breath. Who was this woman earlier in your relationship? I have referred to my W on these boards as an "alien" for good reason. She isn't the person that she has been. She is acting out in every direction. She is not caring for the house. These are all things that are not normal personality traits for her.

It hurts, but we cannot fix them. Telling them they are in MLC doesn't help. Eventually, you will look inside yourself and inside her to understand how you got here and evaluate who you are going to be. That's the only thing that matters at this point. "Keeping score" of her actions and transgressions may feel good, but serves no purpose.

You have it right, that it is childlike. Think of it that way. She is returning to an earlier place in her life to relive something that is unresolved.

Patience,
JF

[AJM]

I've read on the board that MLCer's are hurting, depressed, acting out, etc. But I am not convinced that W didn't ask for this. She is not merely an innocent bystander unable to control herself. Plenty of people have handled mid-life crises without having affairs, and leaving their children, their homes, and their spouses.

There's a difference between asking for the MLC and responsibility for one's actions. MLC in no way excuses somebody's choices. Not trying to say it does.

I'm trying to point out that all that doesn't really matter compared to what she's going through. At least from her perspective.

You are justifiably furious. I don't take that away from you nor do I mean to infer otherwise.

But just like her, your choices are your choices. Your choice to hurt her (back) or to take a different approach, are your choices.

You mentioned that if your W had slept with somebody older it would have been ok with you (or at least more tolerable). Really? I call BS. You won't know for sure, but I call BS in this case. It hurts regardless. Not more nor less.

But I am kinda curious why her sleeping with a guy half her age is something you would consider more painful than if it was somebody older? What if it had been a woman half her age? How about a guy 20 years older?

Is there something there I'm missing? Help me understand your thoughts.

Peace,
AJ

[TSquared2]

I am justifiably furious about what she has done. I don't believe MLC is a disease or a medical psychosis.

I'm going to disagree with you there. I am 2 years into this "worse" phase of my W's mlc, 4-5 total. I have a degree and real life counseling experience from an earlier career, okay?

In the early days when I snooped hard (and my current career makes snooping a rather trivial exercise, btw), and through this W has left out her notes/journal in the open quite often. This is one advantage/disadvantage of having an in-house mlc'er...Let me say this, and clearly: There is a TON of pain, confusion and anger in the mlc'ers head...amazing amounts, SCARY amounts...and when I was snooping was the time she was all acting wonderfully happy, etc on the outside. Wouldn't you act happy if you thought you had found the "solution" to escape from all the turmoil, pain in your mind?

Thing is, since she has moved out in your sitch, you don't have the easy ability to get glimpses of what is going on in her head, right? You are making a lot of assumptions there. You're an engineer, right? What happens when you make faulty assumptions, or don't have NEARLY enough info to make a reasonable premise????

Hm?

I get your anger, shame and all...been there, felt all that, hard. My ego was battered bruised and self-righteous as all h3ll. W's PA was with a 32 year old married douchebag, and the online EA's and boy toys? The dozens of boy toys? From 19-60 years old...she was/is 45-46... Okay? Good enough for you?

I am going to be blunt...you need to work on your ego, big time. And I don't mean the "self-esteem" ego, I mean the ego that we all have that defends us from hurt, pain out in te world. Because THAT is who I hear in your posts. The anger, the self-righteousness, the "punisher"...all ego.

Is that who you are?

Yes, she is wrong in what she is doing. Guess what? Deep inside somewhere she knows it too. She is running from it, it's too painful. I have watched the process right up close with my W in the house, trust me...it's there. I have watched my W go from denial/running, to realizing that it is within her the problem lives, and there also the solution. It's gradual, because it is terrifying to them. And FEAR extinguishes logic...you know this, as your posts show your FEAR. And I get that, we all get that here, we've been there, or are there.

Please go through JF's thread and read the posts from Mach and Truegritter, and AJ...they would be useful to you. I hope they find their way here for you. They, and many others like Bond, J3B, etc got me on track, reading the archives, of their sitches, their posts to others. They helped me see past MY EGO and get LOGIC back in the process in my head. Logic works.

But you are free to believe whatever you want, just as your W is. It is safe to stay in the anger, judgement. It's easy, and socially acceptable. Comfortable even, perhaps, in a twisted way.

I torn down all my assumptions, pre-concieved ideas and societal norms, tore down MY EGO. I looked in the mirror, a lot. I still always check my premises, like any good engineer/scientist should do. My kids deserve me doing everything I could to give the family the best chance of staying whole. I needed to wipe away the sand in MY eyes and see this from a beginner's mind. I did, and still do. My kids KNOW, I am doing everything possible, they have watched me VERY closely through this.

And my W is still here, and moving, I think, and believe, towards reconciliation, slowly.

I'm going to quote URWorthy from JF's thread, she has seen several MLC's up close, including her own H's. She has quite a bit of experience in this, and you should (re)read Job's threads in Cadet's initial welcome post to you.

THe feelings you are having are all normal. You are grieving and going through all the phases of that. It is important that you feel them all. Then when you are ready, let them go.

You dont want to get stuck in any one phase for too long.

So, you are not liking your wife right now. Understandable. But here's the thing. If you believe she is in crisis, then, it is good to try to find compassion. She is going back to that little girl whose mother left and who's father didnt accept her. She didnt learn all the coping skills she needed back then. She has to go back and figure it out before she can close the door on it.

Trust me, you would not want to be in her head. But that doesnt mean she gets a free pass on her actions. Those are hers to own.

People often misunderstand detaching. It doesnt mean you dont love her or you are abandoning her. It means you love her so much you are willing to let her go. That is the ultimate act of love.

It also means that you are honoring your long term marriage and the mother of your children by allowing let her walk her journey. Your job is to get out of the way.

I know your w is very angry. And since you are the closest person to her, you are the one she is going to target. She thinks if she can just get rid of you, then she will be happy. It isnt until she looks within that she will realize it is her.

It is important that you continue to do the work on you. You have children watching you. You need to show them how to handle life's tough spots with strength and courage.

[Mach1]

I quoted AJM above, because I'd like to talk about the concept of responsibility he raised. I've read on the board that MLCer's are hurting, depressed, acting out, etc. But I am not convinced that W didn't ask for this. She is not merely an innocent bystander unable to control herself. Plenty of people have handled mid-life crises without having affairs, and leaving their children, their homes, and their spouses.

I can't accept the premise that my wife is simply blameless in this. I am justifiably furious about what she has done. I don't believe MLC is a disease or a medical psychosis. I beleive it is a snowballing series of really awful decisions which reflect poorly on her character.

IF you have zero belief in MLC, then I encourage you to read the archives, and seek out people who have gone through this process.

AmyC
Mirage
Jasmine
MrCAS (in newcomers)

I know there are others, they just slip my mind right now...... Cadet ??

MLC isn't as diagnosable as many other mental health diagnosis, mainly because no two MLC's are the same. They are as unique as the person going through them.

Each as individual as the next.

Does that excuse her behavior ???

Not in the least....

Are YOU the judge, jury, and executioner ???


Only you know that answer...

So...what are you planning on doing with your new information ???

Confront her, her family, friends, co-workers, the Pope ???

Bury it inside of yourself , and pretend that it isn't happening, so that it can eat you up inside ???

There are other options, yet until you can stop spinning, and treat this emotional decision in a rational way, you aren't going to see it....

Slow down and listen with your head and heart reconciled....

[THX-1138]

You mentioned that if your W had slept with somebody older it would have been ok with you (or at least more tolerable). Really? I call BS. You won't know for sure, but I call BS in this case. It hurts regardless. Not more nor less.

But I am kinda curious why her sleeping with a guy half her age is something you would consider more painful than if it was somebody older? What if it had been a woman half her age? How about a guy 20 years older?

Is there something there I'm missing? Help me understand your thoughts...

[WARNING: I have used strong language in this post, because it is appropriate to the subject matter. If you are easily offended, I ask that you stop reading now.]

AJ, I am completely sincere in stating that an affair with a guy her age would be acceptable to me. In fact, I know she is having/had an EA with a coworker in his 40's, and I am pretty sure it may have progressed to a PA a few months ago. And I really am not worked up about that one. As I said a few pages back, I understand that affairs are part of the MLC process, and they help to move it along. I can handle that. I accepted it. No problemo.

*******

Here are some reasons why sex with a 24-year-old is different:

It makes my wife a sluut. If she was with a guy near her age, she would be seeking an actual relationship; companionship, a friend, a compatible lover. With a guy less than half her age, she is seeking and getting SEX from a man-child. Like porno grade SEX. Like Cougars. From a guy who is willing to scr3w someone older than his own mother.

She is sending sexy pictures of herself to a kid born one week before I met her (when she was 26 and I was 29). She sends these out at midnight, and then he comes over and fukks her. That might sound crass, but that is what she is doing. They are not making love.

It is different because she is doing it to indulge in a fountain of youth sex fantasy with a college student. This is not a healthy fantasy to indulge in. This guy is probably not trustworthy. What kid is? He is gonna brag. It is likely he is sharing the photos with his friends. It is likely he is telling them about her. He works in the same building as her.

It is different because societal norms do not allow for this sort of thing. If my friends found out she was doing a 24-year-old, they would be disgusted by her, and embarrassed for me. If W's own mother found out they both would be horrified. Societal norms are important, because we live in society, and they are real. Other people's opinions are real, and they matter.

She would not be embarrassed to tell her sister about her affair with a peer. But she will never tell anyone about the one with this man-child. Because it is wrong, embarrassing, harmful, and disgusting. To everyone; me, our kids, our families, our friends; and ultimately, to herself.

It is disgusting because societal taboos exist. Social taboos are real, and this breaks one.

Because she is getting sex from a guy who because of his youth, offers her the one thing I cannot - youth and youthful virility. It thus wounds my pride.

Because she is demeaning herself, for a momentary pleasure. And it is a very guilty pleasure. If she ever recovers from this, she will have to deal with it. Since I am aware of it, I must eventually share that I know. It makes any possible reconciliation less likely, and more arduous.

Because if my teenage children were to find out she had done a 24-year-old, they would be horrified, and damaged emotionally. They would need therapy. If my kids found that she was having a relationship with an actual peer they would be okay with it.

My son is 16. My wife took a 24-year-old lover. She is 49. This is wrong.

[Cadet]

Wonka and My favorite Wierdo(butterflymoms's husband)

So my question is have you ever dealt with anyone who is mentally ill?

Or had any other illness?

Are they at fault for their illness?

Cause that is what you are saying.

Let me know the next time you have a sinus infection and tell me WHY you inflicted it upon yourself.

Is she making bad choices, absolutely.

Then again if you point your car towards a tornado and drive into it, that is also a bad choice.
I would reccomend turning a 180 and driving away from it.
Dont blame the tornado.

Have you done all the homework?

[Cadet]

This is why it is called affair down.

You mentioned that if your W had slept with somebody older it would have been ok with you (or at least more tolerable). Really? I call BS. You won't know for sure, but I call BS in this case. It hurts regardless. Not more nor less.

But I am kinda curious why her sleeping with a guy half her age is something you would consider more painful than if it was somebody older? What if it had been a woman half her age? How about a guy 20 years older?

Is there something there I'm missing? Help me understand your thoughts...

[WARNING: I have used strong language in this post, because it is appropriate to the subject matter. If you are easily offended, I ask that you stop reading now.]

AJ, I am completely sincere in stating that an affair with a guy her age would be acceptable to me. In fact, I know she is having/had an EA with a coworker in his 40's, and I am pretty sure it may have progressed to a PA a few months ago. And I really am not worked up about that one. As I said a few pages back, I understand that affairs are part of the MLC process, and they help to move it along. I can handle that. I accepted it. No problemo.

*******

Here are some reasons why sex with a 24-year-old is different:

It makes my wife a sluut. If she was with a guy near her age, she would be seeking an actual relationship; companionship, a friend, a compatible lover. With a guy less than half her age, she is seeking and getting SEX from a man-child. Like porno grade SEX. Like Cougars. From a guy who is willing to scr3w someone older than his own mother.

She is sending sexy pictures of herself to a kid born one week before I met her (when she was 26 and I was 29). She sends these out at midnight, and then he comes over and fukks her. That might sound crass, but that is what she is doing. They are not making love.

It is different because she is doing it to indulge in a fountain of youth sex fantasy with a college student. This is not a healthy fantasy to indulge in. This guy is probably not trustworthy. What kid is? He is gonna brag. It is likely he is sharing the photos with his friends. It is likely he is telling them about her. He works in the same building as her.

It is different because societal norms do not allow for this sort of thing. If my friends found out she was doing a 24-year-old, they would be disgusted by her, and embarrassed for me. If W's own mother found out they both would be horrified. Societal norms are important, because we live in society, and they are real. Other people's opinions are real, and they matter.

She would not be embarrassed to tell her sister about her affair with a peer. But she will never tell anyone about the one with this man-child. Because it is wrong, embarrassing, harmful, and disgusting. To everyone; me, our kids, our families, our friends; and ultimately, to herself.

It is disgusting because societal taboos exist. Social taboos are real, and this breaks one.

Because she is getting sex from a guy who because of his youth, offers her the one thing I cannot - youth and youthful virility. It thus wounds my pride.

Because she is demeaning herself, for a momentary pleasure. And it is a very guilty pleasure. If she ever recovers from this, she will have to deal with it. Since I am aware of it, I must eventually share that I know. It makes any possible reconciliation less likely, and more arduous.

Because if my teenage children were to find out she had done a 24-year-old, they would be horrified, and damaged emotionally. They would need therapy. If my kids found that she was having a relationship with an actual peer they would be okay with it.

My son is 16. My wife took a 24-year-old lover. She is 49. This is wrong.

[TSquared2]

Because she is getting sex from a guy who because of his youth, offers her the one thing I cannot - youth and youthful virility. It thus wounds my pride.

- Ego

Because she is demeaning herself, for a momentary pleasure. And it is a very guilty pleasure. If she ever recovers from this, she will have to deal with it. Since I am aware of it, I must eventually share that I know. It makes any possible reconciliation less likely, and more arduous.

- Yes, it is hers. The rest is completely YOUR CHOICE

It is different because she is doing it to indulge in a fountain of youth sex fantasy with a college student. This is not a healthy fantasy to indulge in. This guy is probably not trustworthy. What kid is? He is gonna brag. It is likely he is sharing the photos with his friends. It is likely he is telling them about her. He works in the same building as her.

A lot of speculation there. Also, a fantasy of boinking a college chick has never, ever crossed your mind? Again, fantasy, not actually doing it, but just the fantasy part? Really? And a man our age with a 24 year old woman is wrong as well, right?

Just checking...