Intro - hoping for support/advice on DBing

[melissag]

Hi all, I introduced myself on the newbie thread, but it looks like nobody really responds there, so thought I would start a new thread with my story, and hopefully get some input/wisdom/advice. Here it is:

Hi all, I have been lurking for a bit, just now registered for an account.

Brief story: Married almost 11 years; together 13.5; friends 17. Two kids - boy 7 and girl 9.

Issues throughout our marriage turned into vicious circle - he said I was too critical and (once having kids) not enough intimacy. I felt insecure in the relationship and he would not give me reassurances since he was feeling badly about the way I treated him. I felt too vulnerable to give him what he wanted. You see how this goes. In retrospect, we just handled everything all wrong.

My history - parents married 47 years. HIs history - parents divorced at age 1 (Dad took off, rarely saw kids); Dad married a second time to a woman with a divorce under her belt. Started affair when wife #2 pregnant with kid #3; left wife and three kids, moved across the country when kid #3 was an infant. Third wife had already been divorced once as well. Divorce rampant in his family - he views it as a solution (part of the reason for my insecurity).

So, we struggled through these issues, but I think too wrapped up in our own problems to really hear and understand the other. Still have had a great time together, great kids, lots of family fun, our home is happy. A lot of complacency in the marriage - I tried to do small scale things to help but was not encouraged to do more because I felt they were unappreciated, and I felt too vulnerable to do more. He apparently thought he was doing things to help, though I am not sure what, which means that we were both way off base and just didn't get each other.

So long story short, on 9/27 H dropped the bomb, apparently having thought about it for some time, unbeknownst to me. Seemingly no emotion - no changing his mind. Spent 24 hours doing the exact wrong thing - begging, pleading, generally humiliating myself - only strengthened his resolve, and in fact he said some pretty mean things to me. ("It's time for me to be selfish." "I don't love you." "No, I will not give you another chance, you already got your last chance," etc. Ouch.

Started doing 180s and he has softened quite a bit. We had have had two nights where we have been intimate. After first one, said he was freaking out - he loves me and cares about me and doesn't want to F things up further - I guess in reference to his desire to be best of friends so we can be great co-parents. Second time (just under a week ago), I told him not to freak out, I get it, I understand what he feels he needs to do, and I don't want him to be unhappy with me. Just before the second time we had a long talk (I did not ask him to work on the M, but we did talk about a few of the issues - basically he just feels that we are great friends but that when M we take each other for granted and just don't understand each other, and it will never work; and that he feels that he has lost himself somewhere and needs to stand on his own to work that out.)

He is still living at home. The kids have not been told. I keep trying to give him space but he chooses to spend most of his time outside of work with me and the kids. After the kids go to bed, he hangs out with me. Then, he goes and sleeps downstairs on the couch. (Sigh.) I have been dressing more nicely, he notices and compliments me. I make dinner (usually he does), he thanks me and compliments me. During our big talk, he told me he doesn't feel comfortable with touching b/c he feels he needs to stand on his own. (An hour later we were having sex.) I have been respecting that even though it kills me. It is almost comical the lengths he goes to to make sure that we don't touch each other. You'd think I have leprosy. Tonight he touched me voluntarily three times . . . so I guess that is a good sign? But, as with all other nights, after we have had a great time together, he makes sure to update me on his moving out plans. (RIght now, plans to move out in about 10 days - on our anniversary weekend. Ouch.)

Still doing 180s - haven't criticized him once in 3+ weeks - and honestly kicking myself because wow, it's so much easier not to be critical! Wish that I could have figured all this stuff out with time left to fix things.

Most of my friends/family and everyone else I talk to have good intentions but
tell me he's a jerk, move on, kick him out of the house, lawyer up, he's evil, etc. It hurts a lot and I really hate all the negativity. I find that when I try to just "accept it and get over it," that means i lie on the floor feeling depressed and hopeless. Doing the 180s and having a little hope makes me better able to handle getting through each day.

Talked to DB coach today, it was definitely helpful. Wish I could talk to her every day, as I have nobody for encouragement and I seriously need it all day long.

I don't think there is any stopping him moving out; I just pray that he comes around at some point . . . although once the kids are told, I may not be hoping anymore. I am really dreading that, and think I may be quite angry at that point.

I have seen therapists, lawyers, etc. Read up online and in books. And you know what I've decided? Divorce is just plain STUPID. It's so stupid that we are going to have to split up all the parenting stuff, and all of our things, and all of our finances, etc. It's stupid that we get along great, have a great time together and a happy little family, and he wants a D. It's obvious to me that our problems are totally solvable; but he doesn't see that at all. He feels they are completely unresolvable. He also somehow thinks that he has "done everything" to make this work . . . not sure how that can be true when he decided on his own to D and sticks to it even though I want to work on things. ???

Thanks for reading this far . . . I'm still trying to figure out how/where to post in the forums, but am looking forward to some DBing support and advice - it is tough stuff with little outside support.

[BKS]

Mellissa,

Hang in there. the Calvary is on the way. I will post a longer reply when I have more time than tonight.

Here is a link that will get you started on learning what MLC is all about.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1539436

This is not your fault but it is your problem now,

Hang tough,

BKS

[Mimi00]

Hi Melissa.

I'd say keep your talks about H with others to a minimum...use the forum here to get out your frustrations. That's grest you have a DB coach to talk to as well.
Its hard but continue to focus on you and the kids...your 180s, lovingly detach and GAL when you can.
My H said the same, that he's " tried everything" etc... typical WAS talk. That's where detaching comes in, so these words dont sting so much.

All the best to you and keep us updated!

[melissag]

Thanks for the replies. I hope I can get off moderation soon so I don't have to wait days on end to get some support. Update: last week went pretty well in terms of DBing. H and I had a talk - more apologizing from me. Basically right now he feels so burned by the way I hurt him that he can't see past it. He can't see a way that it would work between us bc he is petrified of going back to where we were before. He is so blinded by this right now (this is my observation) that he doesn't even recognize that he, too, contributed to the awful state of our marriage. In fact, at one point he said, "I'm not completely blameless here; I let you do some if this stuff to me." Ouch. I was proud of how I handled it, though. No argument from me. Nothing I tell him is going to make him see a different perspective.

So during this talk he said he still loves me and cares about me. He wants to still have a relationship with me, but we have to start all over and be friends first and see where it goes, if anywhere. He said he wants me to come see his new place once he gets settled in and come over for dinner with the kids. He also told me that he wasn't planning on dating anyone - he is doing thus because he needs to be alone for a while. That night, he slept in the bed with me instead of downstairs on the couch. Sorry if tmi, but we were intimate twice. That was Friday night. Saturday night, back to the couch. He was offered tickets to a football game and asked me if we could get a sitter, so I did and we went. We had fun. Things between us are normal - maybe even better - with the exception of the fact that he is moving out and that we don't touch each other. That is really painful.

Sunday morning he decided we should get a basketball hoop for the house for my son (7), who just started playing on a team. Huh? I am so confused. Monday came the reminders . . . He needs me to move money between accounts so he can pay his rent and security deposit. Ouch. He was initially planning to move out this weekend but I asked him to move during the week so it wasn't so hard on me and the kids, and he agreed. So it looks like next Monday.

I have been DBing like crazy and I think I am actually doing a great job of it. There is just so much inertia to this that I think it's going to take a long time to turn it around. I am petrified of him moving out, though. I feel like that will make things go more slowly, since we won't be around each other as much; and of course I fear that he will leave and feel happier.

I spoke with a DB coach yesterday and she offered me encouragement, which was great. I keep coming to the boards for more, since nobody in RL seems to support this.

My big hurdle coming up - keeping it together when telling the kids. Not only in front of them, but I'm pretty sure I am going to be quite angry at my husband after that. I will need to step away for a while, probably, to avoid blowing up at him.

How do you all get out your frustrations and anger when DBing? I do martial arts, but not often enough. Maybe I should get a bag to kick and punch in my basement when the kids are at school . . . .

Sorry for the long and rambling post. I woke up several hours early with a mini panic attack so I am not all that coherent, Any advice on how to convince my body that I'm not about to be eaten by a TRex and therefore don't need an adrenaline rush at 3 am would be appreciated. Or, just how to sleep at all.

I feel lie the past month has taken ten years off my life.

[ShabbyPirate]

Hi Melissa,

I am new, too. It does help to share stories! I am going through some of the same things (negativity from friends, divorce IS stupid!).

Hang in there!

[AnotherStander]

Hello and welcome!

Issues throughout our marriage turned into vicious circle - he said I was too critical and (once having kids) not enough intimacy. I felt insecure in the relationship and he would not give me reassurances since he was feeling badly about the way I treated him.

Both spouses contribute to failed marriages, they never fall apart because one spouse is perfect while the other isn't. However, in this world of DB'ing we focus on the only thing we have control over and that is ourselves. So for now you have to set aside your H's faults and concentrate on yours. What did YOU do wrong in the M? How can YOU do 180's on those things?

During our big talk, he told me he doesn't feel comfortable with touching b/c he feels he needs to stand on his own. (An hour later we were having sex.)

Who is pushing for sex? If it's him and you're OK with it then it's fine, but if you're pushing him into it then you might reconsider that because it's putting pressure on him at a time that he doesn't want any pressure.

Tonight he touched me voluntarily three times . . . so I guess that is a good sign? But, as with all other nights, after we have had a great time together, he makes sure to update me on his moving out plans.

Low energy WAS's do tend to show signs that can be mistaken for progress, they'll do family activities (and even seem to enjoy them), may even go out on dates with the LBS, may agree to MC, even continue to ML. And this tends to make the LBS have expectations that things are getting better, but those expectations inevitably lead to disappointment. The sad truth is he is done and he's just going through the motions of being a married guy, biding his time until he can get out. I'm not saying to have no hope, there is always hope. But I am saying not to expect a fast solution, because there isn't one. It's going to take many, many months before he may begin to look back. If you read the sig's of the reconciled old timers here it's not unusual to see years between BD and R in there.

Most of my friends/family and everyone else I talk to have good intentions but
tell me he's a jerk, move on, kick him out of the house, lawyer up, he's evil, etc. It hurts a lot and I really hate all the negativity.

MWD talks about this in the beginning of DR. They do have good intentions, they think this is the fastest path for you to be "happy" again. They are absolutely wrong. The best thing to do is just not talk to them about your sitch. Talk about anything BUT your sitch. If they bring it up then just say both of you need time and space to figure things out and leave it at that.

I don't think there is any stopping him moving out; I just pray that he comes around at some point . . . although once the kids are told, I may not be hoping anymore.

People reconcile after S and even D, so it's not over until you decide it's over. Hope is there as long as you continue to hold it in your heart.

I have seen therapists, lawyers, etc. Read up online and in books. And you know what I've decided? Divorce is just plain STUPID.

I don't think you'll get much disagreement here, LOL! And society is stupid for encouraging it instead of encouraging people to work through their problems.

It's obvious to me that our problems are totally solvable; but he doesn't see that at all.

No, because he's in a fog. He can't think clearly. You can't reason with him, you can't explain things to him. He sees you as the source of all the unhappiness in his life and the cure is getting rid of you. That's why you have to give him time and space, when you remove yourself from the picture eventually he'll realize you're not the source of all his problems after all. It takes a lot of time though.

He also somehow thinks that he has "done everything" to make this work . . . not sure how that can be true when he decided on his own to D and sticks to it even though I want to work on things. ???

That's typical WAS script. They usually haven't done anything at all except suffer in silence, which they somehow interpret as "trying everything". And of course you're guilty for not responding to it.

I'm still trying to figure out how/where to post in the forums

This is the place! Keep posting to this thread until it reaches 100 posts (10 pages) before starting a new thread.

[PatientMan]

Welcome! Your sitch reminds me a lot of mine. You will find a lot of support here, so keep posting!

This may not necessarily "comfort" you, but your sitch and your H both sound like a very typical, very textbook case. There are many here who have been through exactly what you've gone through and know what it feels like to be in your shoes.

The good news is that, since your H sounds like a textbook WAS, what he is saying now may not be what he is saying in a week, a month, or a year. The bad news is there are no guarantees.

You have a DB coach...that is great! Listen to him/her and do as they advise. The only advice I offer to you now is to keep working at this, even when you don't feel like it. Remember, you are not finished when you are defeated - you are finished when you quit.

Endure well! You can do this!

-PM

[melissag]

Thanks for the replies!! Hoping to get off moderation soon so I can keep up and my thread doesn't fall to page 23.

To answer your questions, and update:

I have not initiated sex or physical contact of any kind. When it happens it is always his idea and we always spend the whole night together. It has happened now two more times in the past week. In between, he goes back to the couch.

Last week, he emailed me to thank me for being so nice about everything (this happened after a conversation where I agreed to help him with some things he needs to move out, but I am sure he could tell it was very painful for me). He also said he feels like s.h.i.t. about what he is doing, but thinks everyone will be happier. Had a conversation about this later in the day, and ended up being intimate that night and the next morning. At that point he said he thinks we need to start all over as friends, and see where it goes from there. Then, back to the couch the next night. We had a great weekend. He invited me to spend some time with him at a sporting event and suggested we get a babysitter, which we did. Lots of talk about things like me coming over for dinner to his apartment, I should invite him over for dinner, etc. Kind of confusing, but I go with it.

This week, he emailed me to say that he really appreciates all the efforts/changes I have made in the past few weeks, and that it makes him remember why he married me. But, that he doesn't know how that relates to us, since he is still afraid of the bad side of me, and doesn't know how to avoid her. Said he enjoys spending time with me and, even though he is moving out, wants to continue to do so and build a great relationship. (Unclear whether he means co-parenting relationship or more.) I didn't respond to the email. I had the kids and then we all went out to dinner and did family stuff. He then asked to sleep in the bed with me that night . . . more intimacy and we talked a little bit. Now saying he feels very conflicted . . . he is really liking the changes but can't reconcile how I could have been the person that made him so miserable and now be this totally different person. I told him that talk is cheap and I know my words mean nothing, but that this is the me that's going to stay, and he will see to the extent he lets me show him. Now saying that he is still moving out (a week from today), but that it's because he "needs space to figure out whether we can fix this."

OK, so this seems to me to be significant progress. It is hard, because when I see a baby step, I want it ALL right now. But I am being patient. I am actually pretty impressed with myself for how well I have been 180ing with no big mistakes. He has gone from "I don't love you anymore; you make me miserable; there is no chance for this ever and I want a divorce ASAP" four weeks ago, with baby steps in between, to "I love you, I enjoy spending time with you, I need space to figure out if we can fix this." (But, still moving out, of course.) No D talk in a few weeks, but not sure if that means anything or just because he is focused on the moving out part first.

We talked today about his move date (he was considering postponing it for two more days for practical reasons), and asked for my opinion. I told him that I didn't really think I should have any input - that he should do what he needs/wants to do and I will honor whatever that is. (He did end up pushing it back two days, which is why it's now a week from today. Hey, two more days to 180.)

So what I need now is some encouragement, because it is going to be extremely difficult for me when he moves out. We will still see each other at the very least to exchange kids twice a week, though the way he is talking now it sounds like more than that. But that's not a lot of time to be 180ing. I will definitely be focusing on GAL for sure, though. Is there any chance that getting the space he wants will help him gain some clarity?

[melissag]

Still hoping to get off moderation . . . . it has been so long since I posted that I can't recall now what I have already posted. Things are changing a lot and H is moving out in a few days. Desperately need support of those who are DBing and going through the same thing I am. How do I get off moderation so I can post in real time?

[melissag]

Bumping since I am (was?) on moderation and my post is on page 41.