Questions on the 37 rules and other advice...

[S4tk]

AS,

Thank you for adopting me a bit. I feel your advice is very helpful and there is wisdom in your words.

T

[S4tk]

Kind of sad and angry right now. I just dropped off W at airport because one of us needed to go back to tie up loose ends where we were living (we were living overseas and a few months after the BD, came back to the States).

So I think it's better for her to tie up the loose ends, and it will give her some freedom. She will be gone two weeks.

But I am facing the reality that we won't again see the home we were in for three years, with a bunch of happy memories... the job I really loved... friends who were really true to both of us...

I was happy and detached in the car, but on the way home after I dropped her off I got kind of resentful and "woe is me" for W ruining our lives.

Just venting.

[AnotherStander]

I was happy and detached in the car, but on the way home after I dropped her off I got kind of resentful and "woe is me" for W ruining our lives.

Totally normal feelings. We all "cycle" early in our sitches, we can go from feeling pretty good to being a blubbering mess in only minutes. Just try to keep in mind that your W is not doing this to be mean, she probably feels desperate, she is very unhappy and feels this is what she must do to save herself. You and I both know that things could be resolved without resorting to S or D, but she doesn't feel that way right now. I know what I'm asking here is difficult when you're suffering so much yourself, but try to have empathy for what she is going through. Once you come to realize that she too is suffering, hopefully it'll help you have some perspective and not blame her for what is going on. Forgiving her is a big step in your recovery. That forgiveness is an internal thing, you don't even have to tell her, it's more about accepting things yourself and releasing her from blame. I'm not saying you have to forget, I have forgiven my W (in my case I did tell her) but I will never forget, because remembering this is part of what will keep me from backsliding and will keep me on my path of self-growth.

[Positivespin]

Some VERY valuable advice given to me to help me respond to W - Dont stand in her way but make sure she does all the heavy lifting.

She wants a D- she files
She wants a mediation - she makes the calls
She wants a separation- she moves out

Please remember, the end goal is to have her make the decision, on her own, to come back. She needs to go on her journey and it will take time-lots of time.

If you push and pressure and she caves it will only be temporary and this will happen again.

You need to worry about you right now. How will you be the greatest dad in the world to your kids? YOU need to be the rock for your kids while your wife is on her journey.

Begin a journal- you will need it..hard in the beginning but once used to it it will be so valuable.

Create some long term goals for yourself then identify short term goals that will lead you to achieving them - This is important because you will NEED to find some personal success in areas that YOU have 100% control over. So much else will be seemingly out of control.

Dont point out to your W the changes you are making

DONT SNOOP!

[S4tk]

Some VERY valuable advice given to me to help me respond to W - Dont stand in her way but make sure she does all the heavy lifting.

She wants a D- she files
She wants a mediation - she makes the calls
She wants a separation- she moves out

Please remember, the end goal is to have her make the decision, on her own, to come back. She needs to go on her journey and it will take time-lots of time.

positivespin,

This was a great way of putting it. Thanks for taking the time to post.

TB

[S4tk]

I know I have been asking this question in various forms, but I am still uncertain about something. I have been reading old threads and came across Bustorama's story. As he puts it:

Originally Posted By: bustorama:

I keep struggling with the balance of being helpful/responsive (180ing my previous neglect/unavailability) vs. being pursuing/solicitous/supplicating.

And then a poster named Puppy Dog Tails replied:

Man, that IS one of THE toughest things in all of DBing. In my opinion, after reading all of your most recent posts, you've swung a little too far in the other direction, Busto (foot rubs? Seriously?? c'mon . . . ). I think the post-surgery PHYSICAL stuff is okay, but you're also rescuing her from parenting, and she needs to feel what it's like to parent without you.

On a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being totally supplicating and 10 being totally distant/hardass, I'd say -- at this stage -- you want to be about a "4" (I'd normally say 5 or 6, but I'm taking your word that your past marital style was too controlling and emotionally distant). So, a "4". But right now, you seem to be about an "2."

Go back and re-read what you were doing that was WORKING, and get back to being "that guy."

Puppy

Now, I know Busto's sitch was one where, even though they were S, the W wasn't exactly a WAW and there were some indications of reconciliation from the beginning. But similar to Busto, I believe that my W has felt lonely and disconnected for quite a while. So I struggled whether the low contact approach toward her (don't pursue, don't ask out, don't initiate) will actually have the effect I am looking for. I guess only experimentation will tell me. I do need to start a journal too, to be more attentive to her reactions.

[Positivespin]

I believe it has ALOT to do with whether there is OM involved. If she gave you a warning shot then do 180's FOR YOURSELF! You cant cater and smother. If you were distant (like I was) review your obligations and prioritize them. (I was out 4-5 nights a week with charities, chamber obligations, political events) I now have a simpler life,

Another distance issue I identified was alcohol and eating. I realized I used them as a escape. I addressed those issues as well- not addictions just used them the wrong way.

This is not about her- If these changes are for her they are band aids and will not last. Take this time to make you better. "Someone who only a fool would leave".

So what are you going to do these next two weeks? what steps will you take?

[AnotherStander]

So I struggled whether the low contact approach toward her (don't pursue, don't ask out, don't initiate) will actually have the effect I am looking for.

There's a HUGE problem in that statement, and that is that it is all about what YOU want. What you want and what your wife wants right now are two completely different things. You are NOT going to get what YOU want (reconciliation) unless and until SHE wants it, and she isn't going to want it for as long as you keep trying to do things to convince her that she does. For now you've got to take your wants and desires, put them in a box, tie a bow around it and put it on the back of the top shelf of the closet. Hopefully some day you can get that box down and open it again, but you've got lots and lots of difficult work ahead before that day comes. What you have to do instead is give your wife what SHE wants- TIME and SPACE. In your words- don't pursue, don't ask out, don't initiate. It doesn't matter whether or not it has the "effect" you want, because it is what SHE wants and right now it is all she wants from you.

I guess only experimentation will tell me. I do need to start a journal too, to be more attentive to her reactions.

Boy, we all seem to go down the same road, LOL! We do things and then watch our spouse like a hawk after a mouse to see how they respond, then catalog whether what we did "worked" or "didn't work". The thing is, nothing is going to work right now. She's done. She is 100% convinced that things are over and there's no chance for the M. You can push her away, you can smother her with attention, you can buy her gifts, you can ignore her, you can paint yourself blue and dance circles around her while waving live chickens over your head. None of it will have any effect on just how done she is. Ironically the only thing that WILL work is for you to get so focused on yourself and making yourself the best possible person that you'll cease to care whether what you're doing has an effect on her or not. It's just like dating- the more available and attentive you are then the less interested she is. The more strong and independent you are the more interested she becomes.

[S4tk]

I believe it has ALOT to do with whether there is OM involved. If she gave you a warning shot then do 180's FOR YOURSELF! You cant cater and smother. If you were distant (like I was) review your obligations and prioritize them. (I was out 4-5 nights a week with charities, chamber obligations, political events) I now have a simpler life,

Another distance issue I identified was alcohol and eating. I realized I used them as a escape. I addressed those issues as well- not addictions just used them the wrong way.
[\quote]

Can you clarify what you mean by a warning shot? Even though she hasn't left yet, I think it has more to do with her wanting to find a job and be self-sufficient first. We haven't had a physical relationship since July (not even non-sexual affection).

In terms of escape, I have identified some "normal" but still unhealthy in context means of escape like activities with the kids, and eating. And then there is the unhealthy and immoral succumbing to online escape which, although being occasional and not on an addictive level, I know I have used it to escape. Of course, that brings shame and false intimacy.

[quote]
So what are you going to do these next two weeks? what steps will you take?

I am going to make another post with steps and 180s because I want advice on them.

[S4tk]

Also, positivespin...

Can you clarify what you mean by a warning shot? Even though she hasn't left yet, I think it has more to do with her wanting to find a job and be self-sufficient first. We haven't had a physical relationship since July (not even non-sexual affection).

In terms of escape, I have identified some "normal" but still unhealthy in context means of escape like activities with the kids, and eating. And then there is the unhealthy and immoral succumbing to online escape which, although being occasional and not on an addictive level, I know I have used it to escape. Of course, that brings shame and false intimacy.