@labug - a lot, not all of it necessarily new. I'm an enabler. I try to fill gaps for people instead of allowing them to see the gap and fill it themselves. I am impatient and pushy. I try to control situations by putting together plans/steps to solve. I'm an extremely sensible and logical person, but then I act stupidly from emotion. I've been a fool because I have gotten good advice from the folks on here, and my friends in the alt, and promptly ignored it because I think I can do it myself. I am worried about my step-kids a LOT - this causes me to push on the situation when I should be going dim/dark. I see W going back into depression, sleeping a lot, watching TV non-stop, and I think I can "fix" her by helping her. And that's just getting warmed up!
@Mimi - as I said above I've gotten good advice, and promptly ignored it. Thanks again for your words. After the last few months, I'll probably need a decade of therapy! As far as restraining orders, they say you can't take out loans, you can't "harass" the other person - it's basically a template assigned to every divorce. I shouldn't have said it's a joke, because it is a valid document, but W kind of made it null and void by inviting me over via email, so I have documented proof. Anyway, it's now a boundary for me, and you're right: it should have been from the beginning.
So if you know those things about yourself, what are you going to do?
What I see is, when the going gets tough and the spotlight is on you to change, you go to your default position like this: "But that wasn't very nice, so I simply sent back "Another boundary is that I won't argue over email. Obviously, you have concerns, so you're welcome to call me. The boundaries stand. Have a nice day." You continue to engage.
Why? Some boundaries don't need to be stated and once you've stated a boundary you don't keep restating it.
But you have to have this contact with her and this is all about you. You need someone to rescue and when she seems to be moving away, you poke her with a stick and then she does what she does and you are again the victim and the cycle starts all over again.
As I said, it only takes one person to stop that but you have to really want it to stop.
And while I understand that you're concerned about the step-children, showing them a healthy R and/or healthy communication could be the most helpful thing you could do for them.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Oh ok, that's not a domestic abuse type of restraining order, that's just a boiler plate divorce RO to in essence, "freeze" the marriage and finances until the court can rule on the case. It probably does not state you can't be in her presence.
With that said, the fact she waved that at you literally in your face should tell you that you should stay away - DB or no DB. She seems a bit unpredictable.
Me: 43 W: 37 Together: 18 M: 15 D: 8 yrs old ILYBNILWY: March 2011 She Filed for D: August 2011 She moved out: Sept 1, 2011 Reconciled: May 2012 Divorce Case dropped: July 2012
Me: 43 W: 37 Together: 18 M: 15 D: 8 yrs old ILYBNILWY: March 2011 She Filed for D: August 2011 She moved out: Sept 1, 2011 Reconciled: May 2012 Divorce Case dropped: July 2012
@labug - you're absolutely right in that description. That's probably the first and most important dynamic to change. I don't believe I need someone to rescue, but I do feel like if I "let her go", she's going to spiral out of control with depression and debt and it'll be partially my fault. I need to step out of that whirlpool.
But when she sends a long email, and reveals her feelings like that (and I believe some of it was honest), do I just ignore it? I want to be fair if she has concerns she wants to express, I just hate email/text.
@NTX - you're right, it says I can't "harass" her. W has used it as a weapon though. You can't beg someone to stay one day, and 36 hours later, use a restraining order to threaten them. That's why it was one of my "boundaries" - no in-person contact while it's in place, period.
But when she sends a long email, and reveals her feelings like that (and I believe some of it was honest), do I just ignore it? I want to be fair if she has concerns she wants to express, I just hate email/text.
Again, your choice. We all get to decide what type of R we want to have. If the rescuer/fixer/victim role is one you enjoy and your R is meeting your needs, then continue having contact with her.
What is your goal? and don't say to be a great husband and father. Do you want to be in a R with this woman, or not?
Your words and actions are inconsistent. Like this:
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I don't believe I need someone to rescue, but I do feel like if I "let her go", she's going to spiral out of control with depression and debt and it'll be partially my fault
You can't stop or you won't stop rescuing because something in you needs that high.
You have to see it first to be able to change.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
She said she did nothing wrong and had nothing to hide, and was not in a relationship. She said I was trying to make her look like the bad guy, and she guessed as long as she was with me that was the role she was destined to play.
About answering her email, you get to decide.
Are any of these issues up for discussion with you? Was there a question that needed an answer you could provide? If not, don't discuss.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Jon, very sorry to hear about this latest development with OM. I agree with the others, all clues point strongly to a PA. If she's kissing him in front of the kids then I assure you that's not all that's going on. I think your boundaries are good, but I also think you tend to backslide and let your W manipulate you. That's got to stop. No more pandering to her, no more flirting, no more laying on the bed holding hands and such. Stick to your boundaries. Leave her be. At this point I would refuse any invitation she extends to you, it's time for some tough love.
@AS - thanks for being gentle with me. I have in complete agreement with you; no invitations whatsoever, no flirting, no touching, nothing.
Only thing that sticks in my mind is that S5 told me he went bowling with his friend Michael the other day - turns out he did no such thing, he was completely lying. So, I guess there is SOME possibility he's not being truthful.........and here I catch myself trying to come up with an excuse for W to make it seem as if she wouldn't do something so awful. But at least I'm seeing it now!
The good thing is that even if S5 came up and said he was lying and W had never touched EA, my boundaries are still in place and will not move. I feel like I'm able to clearly articulate a boundary now that is for ME, and not just in reaction to W.
As far as those that ask what I want - I'd be lying if I were to give any sort of answers. I feel like I need to sit down and write out a pros/cons sheet.
LOL! Well you've gotten pretty good at 2x4'ing yourself, so I didn't feel the need
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Only thing that sticks in my mind is that S5 told me he went bowling with his friend Michael the other day - turns out he did no such thing, he was completely lying. So, I guess there is SOME possibility he's not being truthful
The thing that struck me odd was your W's mild reaction to it:
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He said, "Oh yeah, because EA does that now." W just said, "Don't be gross, S5".
Let me ask you this, if you had never kissed another woman and S5 said to your W while you were there "daddy has been kissing a lady" how would you react? If it were me I would say something like "WHAT??? S5, you KNOW that is NOT true! Why would you say that?" I mean you'd want to set the record straight right away, right? But what did your W say? Don't be gross. That sounds to me like "sure it happened, but we don't talk about things like that in front of daddy." That to me was more telling than what S5 said.
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I feel like I'm able to clearly articulate a boundary now that is for ME, and not just in reaction to W.
The boundaries are reasonable even if OM is just a friend, so your W's denial of an A is no reason to back down from the boundaries. Your W has totally been cake-eating, that's why I mentioned that she needs tough love, because she WILL try to go right back to cake-eating, only you can stop that.
As far as restraining orders, they say you can't take out loans, you can't "harass" the other person - it's basically a template assigned to every divorce. I shouldn't have said it's a joke, because it is a valid document, but W kind of made it null and void by inviting me over via email, so I have documented proof. Anyway, it's now a boundary for me, and you're right: it should have been from the beginning.