DARK - how do you do it right? I need help BADLY

[labug]

My question had to do with how you made the leap in logic from your W having a BF to having an EA with her BF. You explained it further in this post.

I was concerned about seeing other women...if it was a terribly bad idea or not?

This question always confuses me. Do you want to work on being in a R with your W or do you want to date? I don't think you can do both, especially this early in the deal.

Why is cleaning the house "doing" for "her"? Was that an agreement you had, that housecleaning was her job? If so that's fine and if you're helping because you want to then continue, if you're doing it to make points, stop.

You have work to do.

What would be your reasons for dating now?

Sometimes I feel like contacting the other woman and telling her to give me my wife back,

Your W isn't a piece of property that either you or OW have control over. She's making her decisions based on her needs, as we all do. She's out because some need wasn't being met. Do you know what that was?

Other times I think about cancelling her cell phone (which I pay for)

Control. Won't work.
Does your W make money? Was it an agreement that you would pay for the cellphones out of your personal money or is that household money. This is not the time to start quibbling over decisions you made in the past and now are unhappy with. Resentment will only get you in trouble.

Keeping score will keep you stuck.

I will continue to work on myself to be a happier person...hopefully it will fill her with guilt one day.

You say you can't be unloving to someone you truly love but this statement is the ultimate in unloving.

Guilting won't work, again it's about control and keeping score.

[labug]

ed to above this: Why is cleaning the house "doing" for "her"? Was that an agreement you had, that housecleaning was her job? If so that's fine and if you're helping because you want to then continue, if you're doing it to make points, stop.

You have work to do.

was meant to go at the end.

[DTM]

Well thank you for the insightful reply - to answer some questions...
-No we never had agreements on household chores, I just always enjoyed helping..it's what I do. Dishes, laundry, dusting, whatever...I don't feel it's just a woman's job in the relationship!
-The cell phone I pay for is her connection to the OW and it (a material item) gets her full attention above anything else, which is why I dislike it. Will I continue to pay for it, yeah..of course.
-Yes, I know exactly what needs I didn't meet in the relationship and I've openly discussed them with her and she has stated she has seen my changes..."too little too late" is the common response right after "I don't love you anymore", which was typically followed by me saying "you should have shown me an action that I understood instead of hinting here and there that you weren't happy" - She put on quite a show, just like the books all say..I perceived everything was "good" and then she just quit.
-I have in the past spoken to the OW, in fact purchased her a gift the last time my W went to go see her as an act of peace or whatever you want to call it...trying to be the better person? I haven't said anything to her in awhile, the last conversation was rather positive - the OW said that my W has told her of my positive changes...but who knows what they're both planning...the OW's R is horrible, her H won't budge to meet her needs since this whole mess started.
-Finally, my reason for dating someone was to get out there and be happy. I can't be truly happy in a R with my W as roommates if I'm not getting any affection...she clearly stated to me that she was surprised I haven't already gone "out"...it's been 3 months since any physical contact and almost 8 months since I learned of the OW. I've went through total hell..mentally and emotionally...made all the wrong mistakes trying to "win her back" with suffocating amounts of attention, gifts, etc...it got me no where except where the books say it will....worse off. So Here I am, resigned to the fact that I am no longer trying to show her anything. My conversations are quick, my texts aren't initiated unless I'm trying to contact my kids (when she's out) and I don't say anything about missing her, loving her, etc. Time and space...giving her an abundance of it and I don't want to hang around ignoring my needs while she dwells on it...if that is what she's doing anyway? And yes, maybe she needs to feel jealousy, knowing I'm out with someone else and that I've detached from her as my W. I DONT KNOW WHAT IS RIGHT! I absolutely love her, if I didn't I wouldn't have hung around for 8 months trying to fix it....which obvious to me now didn't make it any better.


My W doesn't currently work, she had a very successful home based business but we relocated out of state for my job......this was her idea to get closer to family - when I finally got the transfer she hated it because she made her connection with the OW and now had to leave. She hasn't put much effort into regaining her business..although I have for her. She hasn't put much effort into making new friends, although I have for her - she basically states that she is miserable, hates where we are, hates our new house, misses her friends, misses being at the top of the totum pole (business wise in the last town) and doesn't want to start over not knowing if she plans on being here or not. She is in limbo land and lives in the past. I've run out of ideas and have decided to detach and hope she misses me and sees me happy and wants to be with me again...she knows I love her dearly and she knows I understand my shortcomings...but she BELIEVES they are not permanant changes and that she has "tried" and "given" long enough...she's not happy.

[DTM]

Well thank you for the insightful reply - to answer some questions...
-No we never had agreements on household chores, I just always enjoyed helping..it's what I do. Dishes, laundry, dusting, whatever...I don't feel it's just a woman's job in the relationship, is it winning me points? I don't know...it's certainly not out of my character to do these things.
-The cell phone I pay for is her connection to the OW and it (a material item) gets her full attention above anything else, which is why I dislike it. Will I continue to pay for it, yeah..of course..it just makes me mad.
-Yes, I know exactly what needs I didn't meet in the relationship and I've openly discussed them with her and she has stated she has seen my changes..."too little too late" is the common response right after "I don't love you anymore", which was typically followed by me saying "you should have shown me an action that I understood instead of hinting here and there that you weren't happy" - She put on quite a show, just like the books all say..I perceived everything was "good" and then she just quit....and me as truly a decent guy definitely gets it now and wants nothing more than to give her what I missed. If I knew I was hurting her I would have never had it in my character to continue it...now that I know it, I obviously want to fix it, she's everything to me...I signed up for forever and I don't take society's approach to disposable marriages very well.
-I have in the past spoken to the OW, in fact I purchased her a gift the last time my W went to go see her as an act of peace or whatever you want to call it...trying to be the better person? I haven't said anything to her in awhile, the last conversation was rather positive - the OW said that my W has told her of my positive changes...but who knows what they're both planning...the OW's M is horrible, her H won't budge to meet her needs since this whole mess started and it's probably his faults that are helping to keep the R my W has with his W as strong as they are.
-Finally, my reason for dating someone was to get out there and be happy. I can't be truly happy in a R with my W as roommates if I'm not getting any affection...she clearly stated to me that she was surprised I haven't already gone "out"...it's been 3 months since any physical contact and almost 8 months since I learned of the OW. I've went through total hell..mentally and emotionally...made all the wrong mistakes trying to "win her back" with suffocating amounts of attention, gifts, etc...it got me no where except where the books say it will....worse off. So Here I am, resigned to the fact that I am no longer trying to show her anything. My conversations are quick, my texts aren't initiated unless I'm trying to contact my kids (when she's out) and I don't say anything about missing her, loving her, etc. Relationship talk is finally off the table and I don't think separation or divorce will come up again for some time. Time and space...giving her an abundance of it and I don't want to hang around ignoring my needs while she dwells on it and has her affair and other relationships And yes, maybe she needs to feel jealousy, knowing I'm out with someone else and that I've detached from her as my W. I DONT KNOW WHAT IS RIGHT! I absolutely love her, if I didn't I wouldn't have hung around for 8 months trying to fix it....which obvious to me now didn't make it any better. I'm not the one that quit and refused to work through a rough time, it's when you're at rock bottom that things (once understood) can be better than ever...but she doesn't share this belief.


My W doesn't currently work, she had a very successful home based business but we relocated out of state for my job......this was her idea to get closer to family - when I finally got the transfer she hated it because she made her connection with the OW and now had to leave. She hasn't put much effort into regaining her business..although I have for her. She hasn't put much effort into making new friends, although I have for her - she basically states that she is miserable, hates where we are, hates our new house, misses her friends, misses being at the top of the totum pole (business wise in the last town) and doesn't want to start over not knowing if she plans on being here or not. She is in limbo land and lives in the past. I've run out of ideas and have decided to detach and hope she misses me and sees me happy and wants to be with me again...she knows I love her dearly and she knows I understand my shortcomings...but she BELIEVES they are not permanant changes and that she has "tried" and "given" long enough...she's not happy.

[KarenR]

I think you muddy the waters...especially since it is her suggestion. If you aren't talking to a DB coach, I suggest you do. Your coach will help you decide the best approach to take and what will bring her closer and what will push her further away. They are experts that have helped thousands of people save their marriage. I would be happy to talk to you about coaching. Take good care.

[DTM]

I am doing well with not initiating contact as of late..have gotten off my sad depressive state, no more whinning, crying, begging...(that was a really hard time for me and very out of character). I've quit the gift giving, I'm giving her space, I'm not asking where she is every few hours, I only call for the kids if she's out, I don't argue about money although I do ask where the purchase was made in order to record it (as I always do) - I have offered her the job of doing it instead if she wants too, I work out, I cycle, I get out, I love my job, I take care of the yard work and house chores that I always have, I still go out of my way to do things for her - wash / wax / vacuum her car, help with groceries, laundry, etc...I have quit complimenting her beautiful looks or clothes & telling her I miss her..............she knows all of these things.

Last night I texted and asked if it was a good time to say hello / goodnight to my kids (she was 3 hrs away at Grandmother's house visiting)...talked with the kids for 20 mins and then oldest asked if I wanted to speak to mom...I told her I didn't want to interrupt her if she was busy - she overheard and picked up the phone and I let her tell me about her day. It was a realtives B-day and I asked if they had got together with them and she stated that she asked and recevied the cold shoulder, presumably because of our "situation" (the B-day girl is really on my side with all of this and hates what my W is doing)...I calmly said to her "what situation" and turned the conversation to something else..avoiding the R talk.

I am still very hopeful that I am getting the hang of the DB techniques, I've read and re-read the book various times. I've read countless threads on this forum..I am trying and as you all know it is extremely difficult to act 180 out of how you want to act.
One of my biggest issues now is that since I told myself to give up showing love to my W and GAL, I put myself out in the lurker crowd for a date - it took all of 2 days and I have another woman very interested in me......funny story here is that she is damn near exactly the same personality because she did the same thing to her ex-H, (she is divorced 1.5 yrs).....although I didn't do anything with this OW except spend time together she wants to spend every free minute with me and I've been coming up with excuses not too because I feel it's a bad decision and will ultimately ruin my chances at successful DB'ing with my W.....my fear is that my W really won't come back and I should be out there enjoying myself? Hell I don't know.
Love my wife, really really do....just weird when she tells you to go out and do it because she's done...do you or not?

[DTM]

I should've also mentioned that she is a texter - all day, everyday and if it's not that it's facebook messenger...thousands of text and messages a month (when I was snooping it was 7100 texts to the OW back in March...that is 5 texts a minute for 24 hrs)...very disturbing and heart breaking.
When she does text me...as she did a minute ago I get the bare minimum *we are back at the house* was what I got when she returned from Grandmother's house a little while ago, heck I didn't even know they left yet for the 3 hr trip back. I notices she DID NOT say "we are HOME" because she doesn't feel as if our house is her HOME. I simply replied back that "I didn't know you even left yet and glad you all got home safely!"
That is probably all that I will hear from her today until I get home and put on my 180 face. I really think I have a significant uphill battle to win....if I win at all.

[AnotherStander]

I think the texting thing is a form of escapism for the WAS when they're still living at home. It's their way of being "separated" while under the same roof. They text their OP or their "enablers" (the people that tell them what they want to hear- yes he's awful, yes you should leave him, etc.) or both. My W quite literally slept with her phone in her hand and responded immediately to every text received regardless of what time it was. Except when I texted her of course. It would take her hours to reply to the simplest message from me. I've read a lot of other LBS's report similar behavior in their WAS.

Once they move out the texting pretty quickly drops off because they don't need that outlet anymore.

[DTM]

Yes, I figured that was the case with the texting and yes my W does the same thing...sleeps with the phone and doesn't miss a single one no matter what time....crazy and unbelievable that even though her own mother (who was visiting last week) told her she wanted to smash her phone with a hammer she still doesn't see it as a problem.
I'm not hoping she moves out, that isn't the solution I'm looking for. I'm looking for her to put even a small amount of the time and energy she spends on her phone back into our marriage and come out of her fog.

[Mach1]

So here is my question - am I shooting myself in the foot by going out with another woman? I am not looking to fall in love with someone else (as she has), I simply want some companionship like any man would...but I'm still officially married and feel quite guilty. Is this a WAW trap to pin me down and say "hey look what you did!" ? ?

My answer for you would be this...

What would YOU say to a friend, IF he asked you this question ???

As it was put to me when I faced this, was...

Do NOT let her off the hook for this...

What does that mean ??

What do you think that it means ???

What does it mean to you ???


This isn't tit-for-tat here. One hurt doesn't trump another hurt....

Are you married ???

What are your views on dating other people while being married ???

Do not make yourself a hypocrite



It seems as if there is more to what you are dealing with. This isn't a typical WAS here, that just wants out of a marriage. This is about HER inner identity/sexual identity.

Has she always expressed an interest in exploring that side of herself ???

When faced with an sexual identity crisis, the absolute perfect DBer could do everything correct, and still face the end of the marriage. It's not about who has done right, or who has done wrong here (although there are signs). It seems to be about the connection she feels with another Woman. Something that you may never be able to provide , or at least without a lot of surgical money tied up.

I think that even more-so than any other DBer, that you should really focus more on yourself, than her.

I'm not saying that you should just give up either. The day may come when she decides that she wants to be with a Man.

You need to do the work, to be that man that she wants....

What are some things that you could identify within yourself, that you do not like, or could change about yourself ?

What are some things that you always wanted to do, that you held back from doing, because you were married ??

Find life again buddy...