on the edge...

[jp787]

I think I need to be more patient and loving and let her find her own way through this.

Dingo, IMHO this is where you need to be ^^^.

That said I feel that you can accomplish what Sandi has said while doing that, it isn't an easy task, especially if your inpatient.

[sandi2]

She has been depressed, quiet, etc since the weekend. I took that as a sign that she was unhappy around me but you think it may be a sign that she's withdrawing from the affair?

Don't assume it's about you, b/c if she really goes through withdrawal, she will feel unhappy & depressed for a while.

(and even told me she asked the OM to look for another job and he has been)etc.

That may be true, but I don't why OM would leave the workplace unless he's in full agreement to end the A. I hope he does but you can't depend upon it.

I gave an ultimatum and it seems to have had somewhat of an affect on her - maybe not the 100% desired affect but one nonetheless.

I hope you didn't give it to get an affect. However, since you gave it, you need to be ready to enforce it if she doesn't honor it. The worst thing would be for her to continue with the A...and knowing you know...but yet she has no consequences. Ultimatums usually carry little weight up against the strong pull the A has over a WW. My advice is not to give any more.

I almost think I have to stick to my guns and ask her to leave if she doesn't agree to them within the next day or so.

Unless she tells you she chooses to stay in the A, or she admits to crossing over the line you've drawn, you may be placing a bit more pressure on yourself than you are ready to face in the next day or two. Have the two of you actually discussed what plan of action to take in order to survive the infidelity? Yes, it has to start with ending the A, for certain. But you need to sit and talk about what you need from her in order to feel safe in the MR again. I know you laid out certain rules, but it has to be an agreement and she needs to understand this is what she needs to do b/c of the severe pain she has put on you.....not b/c you are sitting yourself up as some type of judge, etc. She needs to realize the burden of proof is on her. She has to be the one to earn your trust. She has to be willing to do what is necessary to show you she is holding up her end of the agreement. And if she needs things from you to help ensure that she doesn't give in to contact OM (or have another A), then that's the time to tell you. If she doesn't get it, then she will resent you highly, and rebel against you even more.

She can't be treated like a prisoner, and yet, she should agree with the terms to let you know where she is and when to expect her home from work. She doesn't have to be thrilled about....just agree to do it to save the M, (at least until you feel you can trust her again). And even if you think you can trust her at first...things will trigger your doubts and you will need assured she is being faithful and putting the work into the R.

Then again, sometimes I think I need to be more patient and loving and let her find her own way through this.

This is an example of why I said you are not ready to make a decision the next day or two. You aren't sure what to do! Yes, you do need to let her find her own way.....through making this decision, and through her withdrawal/depression. However, do you mean you will live under the same roof while she's doing another man? Does it mean you will give her more time to make up her mind about what she wants? What do you mean by being more patient & loving and let her find her own way through this? As long as you know what you want and what your plan is...and you're not trying to find a loophole, then yes, be patient & loving. It's going to take a lot! But I've seen some LBH's use those words as their crutch, instead of enforcing boundaries. I hope you know the difference.

Here's one thing I don't suggest. I don't suggest an in-house separation. I don't think it works well b/c of several reasons. You don't have to jump up and file for D, but don't stay under the same roof and call it separation. It does not work. It merely rubs it in your face, while you deal with the fallout of her disrespect....not to mention living in limbo for possibly years (maybe from now on). If you separate, then live apart from her. Things are more likely to look more clear for her(especially your boundaries). She will either end the A and ask to reconcile, or she'll end the M and you can move on with your life. But you can keep your dignity until one of the other happens.

Guess it sounds as if I pushing you to separate, and I'm not. It's your decision. I'm just saying a so-called "in-house" separation does not work in favor of the LBS.

[gr8 day 2B alive]

Sandi has given you a great assessment of your current reality.

The ultimatum card can only be played once. Like sandi said you MUST enforce the boundaries set or she will lose all respect for you.

Don't make decisions based on feelings. Sleep on it before acting.

have a recovery plan. enforce boundaries and make decisions based on your core beliefs.(knowing your core beliefs is essential)

[dingo]

Update:

After a few ups and downs over the past week, I think (?) we might be making some progress. I told her my boundaries, of which the most important is that the affair end, zero contact, new job as soon as possible. I also told her that the lifestyle she has been living over the past few months (partying and out late with friends a lot) is not one that I want for my life or for someone who was potentially going to be the mother of my children. She expressed that she understood these and understood that if she wants to stay in the marriage, she cannot cross these boundaries anymore.

(To answer your question Sandi, we probably could survive without her salary for 3-4 weeks but the nature of our work is such that its not always easy to get a replacement. Her salary is very nearly equal to mine (80%) so we couldn't be without it and maintain our lifestyle for too long. I don't think asking her to quit without a replacement job is the right move at this point because it basically makes her 100% dependent on me financially which would trap her in the marriage.)

We had a fine weekend. Went for a hike, raked leaves and watched some football. Then today she went to the counselor for an individual session for the first time in 2-3 weeks. She came out of that all confused about what she wanted and what she felt like she could commit to. She admitted that she had spoken with the OM about personal things (their situation, our situation, etc.) over the previous few weeks. I restated my boundary that that can't continue for me to stay in the marriage. She again committed to stopping it without much hesitation, although she was very despondent, depressed, etc. Which I hope is a good sign that she's accepted that it has to end. She seems to be able to come to the conclusion on her own that she needs to stop talking to him but still doesn't understand why she is compelled to revert. Its clear that our counselor isn't really helping her to come to terms with it so I asked her if she'd be interested in talking one of the DB counselors. Not necessarily to convince her to stay in the marriage but maybe to help her come to terms with what she is feeling and why. She seemed relatively open to the idea.

She made a point to tell me that she is not necessarily committing to the marriage but is committed to end the affair so she can make the right decision about the marriage. Either way, I have been preparing myself the past week for a divorce. I have been starting to think pretty heavily of my life without her, have been convincing myself that she will not be able to end the affair and that I will have to serve her papers. I will continue to think like this until I start to see enough genuine signs that things are different with her this time.

Unfortunately a separation is not something that I believe in under these circumstances. I don't think I would ever be able to believe that she didn't go try to have a relationship with the OM only to find out that the grass isnt greener. I don't want to be married to someone knowing that I was option B and its not a precedent I want to set for a committed relationship. I can forgive the mistake of the affair and the difficult/confusing times she is having ending it. I believe in my heart that she knows the facts of the situation and what she really wants, she is just having a hard time applying and committing to them because of the addiction.

[sandi2]

Thanks for giving us an update. I have been very concerned. It's sad to know there are many counselors who don't really give people solutions to use. To tell people to go find whatever makes them happy does not teach them how to coop with issues.

[Breakdown]

Dingo, I think you are getting some great advice here. I really wish I had Sandi on my side when I was dealing with this mess

A couple of things I want to stress. First, put you first. You have to take care of you...physically, emotionally, etc. I think part of that is GAL, part of it is boundaries, and part of it is just a state of mind.

Second, I think you really have to focus on your W's actions, not what she says. In order to hide the A, they start lying, and not just to you, to OM, to their family, friends....it's never ending. If your gut is telling you something, pay attention to it.

[AnotherStander]

Yeah, the fact that she came out of IC more confused about what she wants is a good indication that she needs a different C. Too many C's these days are just all about doling out the empathy without challenging people to get their crap together. You'd think with all the negative data on D that C's would pull their heads out of the sand and focus on saving M's instead of laying all the "you need to do what makes you happy" hippy garbage on people, LOL!

Dingo, as a side note I can't ever say or read your name without putting my horribly awful Aussie accent on it Good luck to you brother, it sounds like you've done a lot of soul-searching and have a good line on what it is you want. I hope your W comes out of the fog sooner rather than later, she's showing some positive signs but it's still a long road ahead of her.

[dingo]

Thanks to both of you guys for your advice (and everyone else as well). It has all been great and very helpful.

I think my state of mind is pretty good right now. I have decided to just take a stand. It has rarely been a problem for me in the past to just chose the stance that I believe is right and stand up for it. I have accepted that the priority of outcomes is:

1. Reconciliation
2. Divorce
3. Limbo (status quo)

I have also accepted the fact that she may need to feel some real pressure/loss before she can really get off the fence. I have also come to realize that despite what she may say, she knows what the right thing to do is and she knows what's best for her long-term. These things will have to get me through if she crosses the one primary boundary again.

This is not to say that I expect her full cooperation and involvement from here on out. I am willing to be patient with her recovery and her healing, so long as zero contact is maintained.

[sayitaintso]

Hey Dingo- Do your boundaries have specific consequences that she is clearly aware of?

[dingo]

Just the boundary involving contact. She knows that contact = i end the marriage.