Suckerpunch (the process)

[AnotherStander]

I think my pain is coming from several things, a lot of what you mentioned above. One thing that hasn't been said, and something that I think is one of my biggest struggles is, the lost connection. I miss the very simple things my family had together. I never thought those things would go away, and today they are just memories that haunt me when I sleep. I also feel pain about past experiences and togetherness with my W and D, things we shared, things we relied on each other for. I guess it is hard to explain all of it, but it does still hurt, very much so.

I totally understand that pain, I can relate to everything you said. All those small moments of intimacy are what I miss the most, one of the things that really sticks out in my mind is how if I was sitting in the living room with my feet up on the footstool W would walk by and grab my toe. I miss silly things like that a lot more than the sex! I guess the difference is I don't blame my W for the loss of those things. I can't imagine the things that must be going on in her head for her to suddenly abandon all the things that made her who she was. Call it MLC or menopause or WAS or whatever, but the bottom line is she is not her normal self. And neither is your W. But that's not their fault, they're trying to struggle their way through that net that's enveloped them.

A final thing that hurts is knowing that I can never go back. Even if W decided today that she made a mistake and wanted to return to our family, I wouldn't be able to get past the damage that has been done.

You've got to forgive her, and you've got to do that for you. I'm not saying you need to forget, none of us will ever forget, and hopefully we'll be better people for it. But forgiveness is a big step in getting past the pain. For me forgiveness came after the recognition that none of this is W's fault. Of course I did blame her initially, after all SHE dropped the bomb, SHE left me, SHE took my kids away from me half the time, SHE chose to hook up with OM, SHE refused to work on things, etc. etc. If not for DB'ing I would probably still blame her for everything, and I would be bitter and angry over it no doubt. But these forums opened my eyes to her struggles and difficulties in this. She's doing what she's doing because she's unhappy and has been for a long time, and she's convinced it's the only path to finding her happiness. She's doing it out of sheer desperation. And I can forgive her for that.

[swoop]

I am trying my best to forgive her. It's difficult, but I realize it is something I need to do if ever I want to move on. I'm getting there. I find myself being much nicer towards her than she is towards me, and therefore I know that I am making strides. I have made every effort to put my scorecard away. I smile and waive at her every time we pass in our cars, almost daily. She gives me a sideways scowl and forces herself to waive back. I don't understand that. I am trying to be nice and cordial, just like she wanted the day she dropped the bomb. I think one of the biggest things that I struggle with is, I don't fully understand her reasoning for ending the marriage and becoming so angry at me. Granted, I was not Mr. Wonderful. However, I was a pretty darn decent husband for the most part. I am a great Dad and a good provider. I gave my wife a life in which she never had before. I put her first before everything else, and I honestly did make hard efforts to make changes where she requested. All of that makes it difficult for me to comprehend why it would end so quickly, without "really" trying to save it. She has told me over and over again, "I just don't want to try". I struggle with that.

[jp787]

To me forgiveness is something that happens in your heart, not your mind. Once you let it go in your heart, then your mind becomes clear and free, a weight lifted from you. You won’t have to try or fake anything because it won’t be there to avoid. It is a gradual process and for me at least takes some sort of meditation or breathing.
Just my thoughts.

[HopefulStill]

SP,
As you move through this, try not to force logic on what your wife is doing. She is involved in an affair, and she is in the fog of it. In the fog, there is no logic as you know it. Her mind isn't in your world. Often the LBS (myself included at the time) will ask themselves "Why would my spouse do this? It's crazy! Doesn't she realize what she's doing? How can she break the family apart like this?". The fact is, they are not thinking rationally. They are thinking as if their brain were on drugs (which it really is with all of those "love" chemicals swirling around). The more you try to apply logic to it, the more confused and frustrated you will become. The WAS is acting like a typical teenager really. Breaking curfew, sneaking out, breaking rules, arguing with their parents. It's all the same foggy behavior.

All you can work on is you. Once her affair has run its course, you want to be in the right place, inside and out, to be the right choice for her. After the fog has lifted, you'll see more rational, logical, behavior from her again. It's a rough ride!

[swoop]

Hopeful, W didn't have an affair and leave. We split up nearly a year ago. She did not meet or start a relationship with OM until we had been apart for around 6 months. Her decision to leave our marriage was based purely on her own unhappiness. The "affair" she is technically having now, is simply her moving on to the next relationship. It wasn't a contributing factor in our breakup.

I am not sure she is in a "fog". I thought that to be the case early on, but it seems now that she is simply changing her life to better suit her needs. I will probably never know for sure what she thinks or how she feels about all of this, probably wouldn't understand it if I did.

[sayitaintso]

I am not sure she is in a "fog". I thought that to be the case early on, but it seems now that she is simply changing her life to better suit her needs. I will probably never know for sure what she thinks or how she feels about all of this, probably wouldn't understand it if I did.

For the most part I feel this is the case w/ my WAS as well.

[swoop]

in retrospect, other than my wife's drastic decision to completely change directions, she has appeared to be completely calculated. Plus, she has never waivered in any of her choices. I honestly don't think she has questioned her decision to leave, not even once. Blows me away, but I think that is the cold hard truth. I know, I know....mind reading!...lol

[25yearsmlc]

See what you wrote above, about how hard it would be for YOU to get past the damage done, which is clearly implying SHE did that damage.

At first, you began that post filled with insights, but you have an INTERNAL scorecard, evidently, b/c

every time you begin to own "more than half" of the demise of the marriage,

you whip out your blame game again!

I say, "Go ahead and own it ALL" b/c she will never know, and you won't waste time on thinking about her or measuring and you might even stay working on you.

Hopeful, W didn't have an affair and leave. We split up nearly a year ago. She did not meet or start a relationship with OM until we had been apart for around 6 months. Her decision to leave our marriage was based purely on her own unhappiness. The "affair" she is technically having now, is simply her moving on to the next relationship. It wasn't a contributing factor in our breakup.

ALL TRUE^^.

Why better reason is there to leave a marriage, than wanting to be happy?

To punish? To "find yourself"? To want more money? I don't see that at all. I think her reasons, however badly founded in your eyes, are pretty valid. Of course it does not matter what I believe. But at leat you realize it's true.


Which means, PLEASE stop bringing OM (she dated too soon? Too easily? She found someone "too fast" that it MUST mean your m was lousy....that's ALL self inflicted stuff YOU do to yourself)

And stop telling us/the world, that "she left the M." She was UNhappy....


When you say you just don't know why she left, I find that hard to believe.

Even so, you also state that you were a good provider (What is a "good provider"? I often wonder....does it mean anything more than being employed with a roof over your head? I'm asking.

In your case, I assume you mean your family provided well...b/c you & SHE were never going to own that home, and you said you had nothing to split with her, Or at least you say that here, whenever she wants some.
Otherwise you say that there is a retirement account you are "willing" to share with her (like it's not the required thing to do)

Bottom line,
Be careful about your own revisions, b/c they sprout up fast.



I am not sure she is in a "fog". I thought that to be the case early on, but it seems now that she is simply changing her life to better suit her needs. I will probably never know for sure what she thinks or how she feels about all of this, probably wouldn't understand it if I did.

she left b/c she was unhappy for a long time and did not expect things to improve. So this seemed like the only way out for her. "TO better suit her needs" is an odd way to put it but it's the same thing.

When you claim not to know why or believe that she had a good enough reason to leave

do you ever wonder if you missed something?

Maybe you are not the listener you believed you were.

Didn't you begin to make the changes only after she dropped the bomb, And Not after her many pleadings before.

So PERHAPS that means your assessment of your husbandly qualities to her, is not fully accurate. I'm betting she tried to tell you and wanted you to change but you did not...

SO, now,

Just stay on YOU and YOUR personal growth responsibility and please stop saying she "left the M" and took you away from your d,

b/c in this note, you admit that is not so.

when you find yourself owning two or four things that were dysfunctional in the m, figure out how YOU will behave differently in your next r, and stop thinking about HER role.

There is NO value in that. And yet there is danger in it. Plus you do often sound bitter.

Stay with the pain without changing it into anger. It simply worsens things for all...your family mostly but also your friends and collegues...

I am very tired now, so Ciao!

[swoop]

See what you wrote above, about how hard it would be for YOU to get past the damage done, which is clearly implying SHE did that damage.

I get what you're saying, 25. I damaged her as well during our marriage, of course I did. However, the things I noted above are things that affect ME. It would be very, very hard for ME to get past them.

I say, "Go ahead and own it ALL" b/c she will never know, and you won't waste time on thinking about her or measuring and you might even stay working on you.

I like that. I will try to look at my situation more so in that way.

PLEASE stop bringing OM (she dated too soon? Too easily? She found someone "too fast" that it MUST mean your m was lousy....that's ALL self inflicted stuff YOU do to yourself)

And stop telling us/the world, that "she left the M." She was UNhappy

When you say you just don't know why she left, I find that hard to believe.

The reason why I am so upset for the most part, (because I will admit that I was also hurt for the reason you mentioned), is because she introduced daughter into the relationship right away. I hate the thought of seeing Daughter going through the same sort of thing she is dealing with now, the loss of home, the loss of friends, family connections, etc. Statistically, this is something that will more than likely happen. Wife bounced from a 12 year relationship, feet first into the next one. Let's be honest, it probably won't last. Even though wife frequently climbs on her podium and proclaims that she is putting daughter as her number one priority, I feel she is being careless and selfish. She is not taking daughters best interests to mind, regardless of how she paints it. I feel it is not a good model for daughter to see Mommy OR Daddy jumping from one relationship to the next. My concerns are for daughter, not so much myself.

When you say, I shouldn't say wife left the marriage, who should I say did?

The reason I say I don't know why she left, is because I honestly don't. I do understand she was not happy, and that things needed to change. But, I still don't get it. Where was the commitment? Where was the love? It was just shortly before BD, she wrote me a letter saying she loved me. Where was the conviction to try to save our marriage? I have a hard time understanding that. As an example, I wouldn't understand a person jumping off a ship simply because it was off course, either. That would be baffling to me. I struggle with her decision to leave in light of all of the consequences, without really trying to work on the problems at hand. Granted, I can't see into he heart or her head, but I myself, as well as ALLLL of the people around us, believe she just quit without ever even trying. That is what I don't understand.

Even so, you also state that you were a good provider (What is a "good provider"? I often wonder....does it mean anything more than being employed with a roof over your head? I'm asking.

In your case, I assume you mean your family provided well...b/c you & SHE were never going to own that home, and you said you had nothing to split with her, Or at least you say that here, whenever she wants some.
Otherwise you say that there is a retirement account you are "willing" to share with her (like it's not the required thing to do).

I provided a nice home. I built it with my own hands, from foundation to roof and did every bit of upkeep and repair. I worked, (and continue to work for daughter and myself), to keep our home beautiful. I took care of the yard, I took care of our cars. I would help Wife with her childcare business, almost daily. I would do a fair amount of the shopping, cleaning, and I would even take the childcare kids on my lunch break to give wife a chance to relax. I stayed home to take care of our daughter while wife vacationed with friends. I took care of all of wifes concerns that I could. If she said, I want ________, I would do whatever I could to buy it, build it or help her in any way I knew how. I provided her with a nice life regardless of my families monetary contributions, which also provided us with things that a lot of people only dream of having. I provided a lot.

she left b/c she was unhappy for a long time and did not expect things to improve. So this seemed like the only way out for her. "TO better suit her needs" is an odd way to put it but it's the same thing.

When you claim not to know why or believe that she had a good enough reason to leave

do you ever wonder if you missed something?

Maybe you are not the listener you believed you were.

Didn't you begin to make the changes only after she dropped the bomb, And Not after her many pleadings before.

I did wonder if I missed something. I wondered about that a lot. I realize fully and completely that my listening skills are poor. I did however, try to work on making changes to things that wife disliked. I actually did make improvement on some of the things she wanted to change, and she noted those improvements prior to BD. I didn't REALLY start to make changes until she dropped the bomb on me. I will be honest, I had no idea that our marriage was on the brink of disaster. I had no idea how serious our issues really were. Call me naïve or stupid, I just didn't realize that it could end so abruptly. BD, was a major wakeup call for me. I hate that it came too late to save the marriage.

So PERHAPS that means your assessment of your husbandly qualities to her, is not fully accurate. I'm betting she tried to tell you and wanted you to change but you did not...

she did tell me, yelled at me, wrote me emails. I did the same. We both pounded our chests and stomped our feet. We wanted changes from each other, for us both to be happy. I think those changes were very doable, we just chose not to make them for some unknown reason. Well, that's not true. I know why. We didn't try to make the changes because we wanted the other person to make the changes FIRST. Pretty sad when I really break it down like that. We are in the process of divorce, because we were stubborn. I think that really has a lot to do with it.

Just stay on YOU and YOUR personal growth responsibility and please stop saying she "left the M" and took you away from your d,

b/c in this note, you admit that is not so.

when you find yourself owning two or four things that were dysfunctional in the m, figure out how YOU will behave differently in your next r, and stop thinking about HER role.

There is NO value in that. And yet there is danger in it. Plus you do often sound bitter.

Stay with the pain without changing it into anger. It simply worsens things for all...your family mostly but also your friends and collegues...

I am very tired now, so Ciao!

Thank you, 25. I am trying to do this, and I am going to try harder.

[PatientMan]

You know what *I'm* tired of? Divorce being too easy and acceptable of an option. I have NEVER witnessed a wedding where the vows exchanged went something like this:

"I, (person), take you, (person), to be my lawfully wedded husband/wife, to have and told from this day forward. I promise to be true and faithful to you, in good times and bad, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, forsaking all others, until death parts us...

...unless you WEAR ME OUT with your incessant nagging, or until you gain 40 lbs, or have have an affair with your secretary, or have an affair with your job, or until you start to remind me too much of your mother instead of the woman I married, or until we don't have sex as often as I would like, or until you become indifferent towards the kids, or until you lose your job and become depressed for too long, or until I don't "feel" it anymore, or until I find someTHING or someONE more exciting."

Has anyone been to that ^^ ceremony? Because THAT'S how we treat marriage, so maybe that's what we should actually say. At least we would be honest with ourselves.

*I'm* tired of the accepted culture that surrounds marriage in this country in general. I'm tired of the fact that divorce is COMMON. I'm tired of hearing that "the kids will be okay" or even "better off" when what every child truly deserves is a loving mother and father joined forever in unconditional love and mutual subjection that raises them in security and peace.

My wife left me. That is a fact. But I left her too - prior to that - just not in a legal sense. And I accept that. But damned if I don't honor my word, my promise to her, while I have my wits about me. C.S. Lewis once wrote,

“The promise, made when I am in love and because I am in love, to be true to the beloved as long as I live, commits me to being true even if I cease to be in love. A promise must be about things that I can do, about actions: no one can promise to go on feeling in a certain way. He might as well promise to never have a headache or always to feel hungry.”

Marriage is - or used to be - a covenant, not a contract. Marriage USED to mean the union of ONE man and ONE woman - now it means the union of ONE man and ONE woman...at a time. I know everyone doesn't think the same way as I do, but it's got mean something more than it does to us now. I know there are people - even people here - who are have gone through unimaginable pain and suffering, horrible and abusive relationships that were just cause for divorce, and I don't want to pick at the scabs these people have in incredibly sensitive areas of their life, but there is no way these relationships account for 50% of marriages.

No way.

This lackadaisical mentality towards the idea of marriage is having a huge effect on us and future generations. We have to get to a point where we live and teach that successful marriage has much less to do with marrying the person we love and much more to do with loving the person we marry. Marrying the person we love is a great start, but that's all it is: a start. As I read recently, when we marry we carry "the responsibility to care for and raise children, cherish our spouses, and build enduring, stable homes which can nurture a true family."

Marriage is a very serious matter and commitment, NOT a lackadaisical one. I know I wish I had taken marriage more seriously and treated it with the respect it deserved. Unfortunately my children have to carry the burden of my poor decisions and the lackadaisical attitude I had toward the covenant I made with my wife.

My apologies for the off-topic rant in someone else's thread. It isn't directed at anyone, I just used the last line of 25yearsmlc's post as a springboard to jot down some thoughts that have been bouncing around in my brain. She, as always, has good advice to be taken and considered very seriously.

-PM