Digging In 2

[JayMan]

NTX - this probably did accurately describe me up until a couple weeks ago ~ everything I did was an attempt to see if I could get a response from W. I think what I should have said above is not that W needs to figure things out and change herself, but rather that I've realized I can't change her by bugging her, offering advice, and only time will allow her to find herself.

W has already told me she likes who I am now, she sees drastic and real changes in me, she believes they are genuine. She has flirted with me, hinted about ML, talked about our future together, and within the last few days said she DOESN'T want divorce, and loves me.

Quite honestly, when I compare this to around 8/10, when she said talking to me made her want to vomit, and she was DONE DONE DONE, and would hang up on me. She told me I wasn't even a man, I could go on and on.

Well, I think I've come a long ways since those awful days, and it's been because of legitimate changes in me, not because I'm a smooth talker or because I was a DBing pro.

Positives:
1. I am infinitely more patient than I was, believe it or not.
2. I'm a fixer, and I have almost completely stopped giving W "solutions".
3. I don't sweat the small stuff nearly as much. Gotten much better at choosing battles. W will say something that just grates on me (she is a hot-head), and I'll just smile at her and make a joke.
4. I'm probably 50% back to the fun, funny, happy, optimist that I haven't been in probably a year. Even my friends and family have commented on it.

Negatives:
1. I'm still roller-coasting, even it's smaller humps
2. I want to control situations by taking feelings and turning them into logical reactions
3. I get frustrated easily when W is irrational (which is often)

Finally:

Valid or not, her feelings to her are real, she is a real person that has thoughts and feelings. It sounds like you are assuming she's crazy and that you think you are doing everything right and waiting for her to get her head on straight. Until you break that thought pattern, you both will continue to spin your wheels in this sitch and possibly get to the final D.

This is somewhat true - except I don't think she's crazy or I'm doing everything right. I know she is severely depressed, pretty miserable, running out of money.
What I don't know what to do about is when she calls me and says, "I don't want divorce, but I don't know what to do." I can't give her an answer, and I can't demand she make a choice - so what DO you do? I'm still not having much luck figuring out a next step here. Just go dark and hope she figures it out?


Sorry this is so jumbled!

[labug]

Which is it?
"I get frustrated easily when W is irrational (which is often)"

" except I don't think she's crazy "

Both of those are judgments based on what's in your head. I know we've talked several times about your mindreading which is based on your judgments. Accept that she's confused and she has to work that out. You don't have to do anything.

What I don't know what to do about is when she calls me and says, "I don't want divorce, but I don't know what to do."

That's not a question, you don't have to answer but you can, and I seem to recall you did, validate that this is confusing for all involved. She didn't ask you to fix anything, or tell her what to do, she was stating her feelings.

It's up to her to sort that out and you can either have patience and wait to see what happens...or not.

It seems you have trouble with the patience part. I say that because you've been ready to quit, move on, get off the coaster about every other day. Your W has no part in that piece, that's for you to figure out.

[JayMan]

Both of those are judgments based on what's in your head.

By irrational, maybe that's the word I use when she hugs me and says she loves me, and then 5 minutes after I leave, she texts to say, 'That didn't mean anything'. Maybe it's just standard WAW - but it doesn't make sense to me! That's all I meant by the frustration part.

It seems you have trouble with the patience part.

I think it's a given EVERYONE needs to get off the rollercoaster, I just sort of stink at it.

My problem (and it's MINE, not W) is that I tend to be a black and white kind of guy. If W wants divorce, fine, let's get it done. It won't be my choice or make me happy, but I survived it just fine once and came out better on the other side.

If she DOESN'T want divorce, then let's take some sort of step when she's ready. I don't care if its one step per month - THAT kind of patient I can do. But to just say, "I don't know what to do" drives me crazy. I know that's good old limbo; but it's something I need to get better at handling...

Challenge accepted.

[NTX_Dad]

I am glad you are noticing what you need to do and that you are changing, but I can guarantee there's much more work to do and that changes after just a couple of months are not permanent. That's just my opinion after suffering through my sitch for 18 months and after all of the IC I had.

I agree with LA, that wasn't really a question from her... just validate it and move on. She's the one with the wall, let her tear it down and tell you when/if she's ready to get back together. In the mean time, assume the D is coming and just work on the new, improved Jon.

BTW, I am not sure if we are allowed to share links, but I stumbled onto this link yesterday and just now had time to read it. 20 To-Dos for a happy marriage. It seems like a lot of these fit in your sitch and validate what everyone is advising.

- - --


20 Marriage Tips Everyone Needs to Know

August 26, 2013 In the News

Below are 20 wise marriage tips from a man that was recently divorced. You wouldn’t normally think that a divorced man would give good advice on being a husband, but this man has been through enough hardship to know what is worth fighting for:

MARRIAGE ADVICE I WISH I WOULD HAVE HAD:

Obviously, I’m not a relationship expert. But there’s something about my divorce being finalized this week that gives me perspective of things I wish I would have done different… After losing a woman that I loved, and a marriage of almost 16 years, here’s the advice I wish I would have had…

1) Never stop courting. Never stop dating. NEVER EVER take that woman for granted. When you asked her to marry you, you promised to be that man that would OWN HER HEART and to fiercely protect it. This is the most important and sacred treasure you will ever be entrusted with. SHE CHOSE YOU. Never forget that, and NEVER GET LAZY in your love.

2) PROTECT YOUR OWN HEART. Just as you committed to being the protector of her heart, you must guard your own with the same vigilance. Love yourself fully, love the world openly, but there is a special place in your heart where no one must enter except for your wife. Keep that space always ready to receive her and invite her in, and refuse to let anyone or anything else enter there.

3) FALL IN LOVE OVER and OVER and OVER again. You will constantly change. You’re not the same people you were when you got married, and in five years you will not be the same person you are today. Change will come, and in that you have to re-choose each other everyday. SHE DOESN’T HAVE TO STAY WITH YOU, and if you don’t take care of her heart, she may give that heart to someone else or seal you out completely, and you may never be able to get it back. Always fight to win her love just as you did when you were courting her.

4) ALWAYS SEE THE BEST in her. Focus only on what you love. What you focus on will expand. If you focus on what bugs you, all you will see is reasons to be bugged. If you focus on what you love, you can’t help but be consumed by love. Focus to the point where you can no longer see anything but love, and you know without a doubt that you are the luckiest man on earth to be have this woman as your wife.

5) IT’S NOT YOUR JOB TO CHANGE OR FIX HER… your job is to love her as she is with no expectation of her ever changing. And if she changes, love what she becomes, whether it’s what you wanted or not.

6) TAKE FULL ACCOUNTABILITY for your own emotions: It’s not your wife’s job to make you happy, and she CAN’T make you sad. You are responsible for finding your own happiness, and through that your joy will spill over into your relationship and your love.

7) NEVER BLAME your wife If YOU get frustrated or angry at her, it is only because it is triggering something inside of YOU. They are YOUR emotions, and your responsibility. When you feel those feelings take time to get present and to look within and understand what it is inside of YOU that is asking to be healed. You were attracted to this woman because she was the person best suited to trigger all of your childhood wounds in the most painful way so that you could heal them… when you heal yourself, you will no longer be triggered by her, and you will wonder why you ever were.

Allow your woman to JUST BE. When she’s sad or upset, it’s not your job to fix it, it’s your job to HOLD HER and let her know it’s ok. Let her know that you hear her, and that she’s important and that you are that pillar on which she can always lean. The feminine spirit is about change and emotion and like a storm her emotions will roll in and out, and as you remain strong and unjudging she will trust you and open her soul to you… DON’T RUN-AWAY WHEN SHE’S UPSET. Stand present and strong and let her know you aren’t going anywhere. Listen to what she is really saying behind the words and emotion.

9) BE SILLY… don’t take yourself so damn seriously. Laugh. And make her laugh. Laughter makes everything else easier.

10) FILL HER SOUL EVERYDAY… learn her love languages and the specific ways that she feels important and validated and CHERISHED. Ask her to create a list of 10 THINGS that make her feel loved and memorize those things and make it a priority everyday to make her feel like a queen.

11) BE PRESENT. Give her not only your time, but your focus, your attention and your soul. Do whatever it takes to clear your head so that when you are with her you are fully WITH HER. Treat her as you would your most valuable client. She is.

12) BE WILLING TO TAKE HER SEXUALLY, to carry her away in the power of your masculine presence, to consume her and devour her with your strength, and to penetrate her to the deepest levels of her soul. Let her melt into her feminine softness as she knows she can trust you fully.

13) DON’T BE AN IDIOT…. And don’t be afraid of being one either. You will make mistakes and so will she. Try not to make too big of mistakes, and learn from the ones you do make. You’re not supposed to be perfect, just try to not be too stupid.

14) GIVE HER SPACE… The woman is so good at giving and giving, and sometimes she will need to be reminded to take time to nurture herself. Sometimes she will need to fly from your branches to go and find what feeds her soul, and if you give her that space she will come back with new songs to sing…. (okay, getting a little too poetic here, but you get the point. Tell her to take time for herself, ESPECIALLY after you have kids. She needs that space to renew and get re-centered, and to find herself after she gets lost in serving you, the kids and the world.)

15) BE VULNERABLE… you don’t have to have it all together. Be willing to share your fears and feelings, and quick to acknowledge your mistakes.

16) BE FULLY TRANSPARENT. If you want to have trust you must be willing to share EVERYTHING… Especially those things you don’t want to share. It takes courage to fully love, to fully open your heart and let her in when you don’t know i she will like what she finds… Part of that courage is allowing her to love you completely, your darkness as well as your light. DROP THE MASK… If you feel like you need to wear a mask around her, and show up perfect all the time, you will never experience the full dimension of what love can be.

17) NEVER STOP GROWING TOGETHER… The stagnant pond breeds malaria, the flowing stream is always fresh and cool. Atrophy is the natural process when you stop working a muscle, just as it is if you stop working on your relationship. Find common goals, dreams and visions to work towards.

18) DON’T WORRY ABOUT MONEY. Money is a game, find ways to work together as a team to win it. It never helps when teammates fight. Figure out ways to leverage both persons strength to win.

19) FORGIVE IMMEDIATELY and focus on the future rather than carrying weight from the past. Don’t let your history hold you hostage. Holding onto past mistakes that either you or she makes, is like a heavy anchor to your marriage and will hold you back. FORGIVENESS IS FREEDOM. Cut the anchor loose and always choose love.

20) ALWAYS CHOOSE LOVE. ALWAYS CHOOSE LOVE. ALWAYS CHOOSE LOVE. In the end, this is the only advice you need. If this is the guiding principle through which all your choices is governed, there is nothing that will threaten the happiness of your marriage. Love will always endure.

In the end MARRIAGE isn’t about Happily ever after. It’s about work. And a commitment to grow together and a willingness to continually invest in creating something that can endure eternity. Through that work, the happiness will come.

Marriage is life, and it will bring ups and downs. Embracing all of the cycles and learning to learn from and love each experience will bring the strength and perspective to keep building, one brick at a time.

These are lessons I learned the hard way. These are lessons I learned too late.

But these are lessons I am learning and committed in carrying forward. Truth is, I LOVED being married, and in time, I will get married again, and when I do, I will build it with a foundation that will endure any storm and any amount of time.

If you are reading this and find wisdom in my pain, share it those those young husbands whose hearts are still full of hope, and with those couples you may know who may have forgotten how to love. One of those men may be like I was, and in these hard earned lessons perhaps something will awaken in him and he will learn to be the man his lady has been waiting for.

The woman that told him ‘I do’, and trusted her life with him, has been waiting for this man to step up.

If you are reading this and your marriage isn’t what you want it to be, take 100% responsibility for YOUR PART in marriage, regardless of where your spouse is at, and commit to applying these lessons while there is time.

MEN- THIS IS YOUR CHARGE : Commit to being an EPIC LOVER. There is no greater challenge, and no greater prize. Your woman deserves that from you.

Be the type of husband your wife can’t help but brag about.

[JayMan]

Ugh, for some reason this is a huge punch in the gut. W unfriended me on Facebook a long time ago. I haven't really cared or said anything in months.

But for some reason, a friend who knows W has been reconsidering divorce, etc, just said, "Hey, if W is reconsidering divorce then why does she have her maiden name on Facebook?" I guess she did it like a month ago, but still.

My head is telling me it's a dumb thing to worry about in the grand scheme of things, but my heart is kinda crushed.

Makes me feel like she's being two-faced. Just venting feelings on here...

[JayMan]

Thanks NTX - I'll print that out and read it.

[jp787]

Limbo [censored], but can be a much better place than one alternative.

FB=Evil

Thanks NTX

[2ndtimearoundCA]

Jon -.your w has mixed feelings; some of her feelings tell her to get out; some tell her to stay. There are reasons behind her feelings weather or not you or her understand them. There is nothing irrational about having mixed feelings. You have mixed feelings too. One day you're leaning toward being done, and the next you're gonna hang in there for a while.

[NTX_Dad]

I think you are worrying about something small right now. In the grand scheme of things she's already done a lot worse... she's moved out, possible EA, etc etc. A FB thing isn't really a big deal, especially since it was a month ago.

Heck, when my W moved out, she changed her's to her maiden name, deleted everyone in my family from her friends list, and she moved every picture that had me in it to a hidden folder. I was totally scrubbed from her page.

Her FB change was a month ago... it's old news and not necessarily indicative of how she feels now.

[NoMoreMistakes]

Agree with above FB=evil.

But don't read too much into actions there. BD I went and deleted all W family and friends and scrubbed all photos. It was an emotional reaction, but was not how I felt 48 hours later.