Unlearning conflict avoidance 7

[MrBond]

No one said you had to "validate" her decision. She is just going to do what she wants and has told you explicitely what she wants and what she intends to do.

No one said your D did it. But if your W "planted" it, AND you react to it as strongly as you did, that shows insecurity which is what she has accused you of.

[LuckyLuke]

Yes, she does what she wants. I do feel like my seeing another woman basically ends our M, though, but perhaps that is the subtext here, something I have real trouble accepting.

I just don't see how going out with other women can be DBing.

[LuckyLuke]

Ken,

I don't think it is the wanting what I can't have thing going on, as I am also angry at my W and she is a demanding, perfectionist, person. On the other hand, perhaps we really aren't suited for each other, with her romantic wildness, fierceness, playfulness, and unapproachability, versus my relatively gentle nature. I don't think I ever really had the whole woman, or that she shared her innermost thoughts, and finally, she doesn't believe in M, though she dreams, or better said dreamt, of a perfect one.

[LuckyLuke]

Sandi2's advice:

"The best thing my H could have done would have been to fill his time with having a really great time enjoying himself without me. To see him oozing with manly confidence in his walk, talk, and daily behavior. To stand up to me and take zero disrespectful statements/murmurings and other bad behavior directed at him. He would not stand around while I b!thced at him or about anything else. In fact, he would not have spent time in the same room with me if I acted like your W does. He would not have acted like my cook/bottle washer/butler. He would not have done anything "for" me. I would have had to take care of my own needs. He would not have sat at home and waited to see what I was going to do during the day/evening. He would have had his own plans and would not have included me or informed me."

I made pancake batter and apple sauce last night, for the girls to fry up, but W heated up store bought pea soup instead. Does this mean it is better that I do not cook at all? Not go food shopping at all? They had the pancakes for breakfast instead. Part of my husbandness has long been carrying my weight in the household by cooking. I don't want to be a jerk, or not be present for my d15, when family dinners together were something we always valued.

So when/if W glares at me again, I say "W, I don't care to be glared at" and walk out? I think a food stash upstairs, my domain now, may be necessary...

Son has agreed, and I don't think I pressured him in any way, to spend a week traveling with me after Christmas. We had a nice time last Christmas, just us two guys, when W and d15 decided not to come along at the last minute. Lunch club start tomorrow, maybe Stockholm Friday evening, hiking Saturday. This will be a great time, but W won't see us having it. Is it important that I just have a good time wherever, or should she also see it?

[KenF]

"but W won't see us having it. Is it important that I just have a good time wherever, or should she also see it?"

forget W.

ignore her and go do things for yourself.

dont make decisions based on what she may or may not think.

you're killing yourself with worrying so much about every little minute detail.

just go have fun for fun's sake. go hike because you like to hike. go make pancakes because you want to make pancakes.

but forget W and all her responses.

[adinva]

It really doesnt matter if she sees it. Do what you want, don't strike poses for her.

I agree with you that the advice to date is not DB, and i think dating in order to try to develop confidence and self esteem is a bad idea. Date when you are divorced, have given yourself time to heal, and have done enough work on yourself to be sure of yourself on your own. Don't use women to prop yourself up. My 2 cents.

[LuckyLuke]

hi adinva, Ken,

It is nice to have you drop in (long time no hear adinva; how are you?) - thanks. I've found a Tantric evening in Stockholm, recommended by a friend, that is supposed to be very healing, this Friday. You don't need to go with a date, and it doesn't have to be sexual either, so I think I'll go investigate. Luke

[PatientMan]

Luke,

You're playing games. Deciding what to do based on what you THINK W's reaction will be to your actions.

DON'T DO THAT.

Figure out who it is YOU want to be, and then simply take the steps to become that person. Stop worrying what others think of you or your actions. As you start becoming the man you want to be, you will gain the respect of others that you desire because you will have true confidence in yourself based upon the genuine nature of your changes.

What you can't do is what you're doing, which is trying to figure out what strings to pull, what buttons to push...basically how to appear as though you have changed without ACTUALLY making any changes.

I'm guessing that isn't the man you want to be: a pretender.

I told you this in a previous post and you don't seem to be getting it. Quit worrying what other people think. Do what you need to do to become who you need to become. If someone doesn't like or respect that, that's their problem, not yours.

Are we clear?

You didn't answer the following question before, but why do you have to ask your daughter where to plant the tulip bulbs?

-PM

[LuckyLuke]

Hi PM,


Thanks for your long post. I don't understand what you consider inauthentic game playing. If you could please be specific, that would be helpful.

I am giving W space, as per many people's advice here. I went out to a good movie last night, as per sandi2's general 'have a good time' advice, and plan to go out again, without asking or saying where I am going, on Friday evening, to a Tantric place that loosens you up. Saturday a guy friend and I plan to hike and maybe meet another friend. I think these are all GAL activities, so I don't see the problem. Shall I not do them? I certainly don't plan to hang out at home doing nothing, wasting time (would love to take my d15 somewhere fun, but she is not so easy recently). Life is too short, especially after 50...

In the States I go to drum circles, play music with a meetup group, and see the films that don't make it to this backwater. I also get to go to a regular job, whereas I work alone from home here (which stinks in many ways). My W knows nothing of the drum circles or playing music - am I doing something wrong? Was it wrong to go hear music in New York City on the way back to here?

I'll be interviewing potential applicants to my alma mater next weekend, and did not ask anyone if that was okay. I am told by other interviewers that it is quite fun, and look forward to it.

A wonderful sounding guy emailed that he couldn't make it to the men's lunch club kickoff tomorrow - a circle of regular friends is one thing I would really like - and my door would always be open to them, like the Irish tradition. I've been a too analytical outsider for a long time, away from people, and now want to get closer to the fire, travel while I can, ideally with my kids and a woman, feel more, laugh more.

At EE I was a different person, really really angry to start, but then gradually softened and finally had four lovely women on my arms the final evening, wonderful stuff, smiling, unstuck. I also made a dear friend there, whom I try to support and share with (I wrote to 5, trying build relationships after EE, but only one stuck).

I understand that I don't need to care what my W thinks - a liberating thought - and so will do the above as I please. Where is the error?

Re tulips - I am just the mechanical gardener ('move a rock from a to b', repeat), and d15 would know better where to plant. On the other hand, it seems pretty clear to me where this should be, and it being more assertive to decide myself, will put them in the now harvested potato bed (any gardening advice is appreciated, as this is quite possibly a bad idea!)

Luke

[LuckyLuke]

Dinner tonight, btw, was an interesting co-cooking affair. W comes home, calls hello to d15 and nothing to me, and starts potatoes boiling. A bit later she asks if I'm eating out tonight, I say no, that I've made a beet salad. She is making mashed potatoes.

We have dinner together, but W still won't look at me. I tell a bit about the movie last night, making sure not to be the quiet, depressed, spouse.