on the edge...

[sayitaintso]

You stated your boundaries....kind of

but what are the specific consequences and are you going to enforce them? Does she know this?

I continue to see a push/pull dynamic here and it seems like she can call/text you and play nice and it [censored] you back in slightly.

Do you always answer her calls right away? If so, why?

She can't locate the # to the counselor? She can't look up some articles and do some research on her own?

I'm not saying she isn't going to buy in and work on the M but I've seen on here many times this dynamic where the WAS throws the LBS a few bread crumbs and we're off on the coaster again.

[Breakdown]

Sandi's advice is superb.

I also agree with sayitaintso's point on the push/pull.

I do think you should drop the rope. Her figuring out what she wants isn't going to happen in 3 days....it may take months, or even years. Give her that space until she's really ready to make a commitment. In the meantime, learn to be the man only a fool would leave.

[jp787]

A lot of men are so panicked that they can't see they are trying to control the other person. They just want the A to end, (which is what needs to happen so the M can R). It's really kind of natural that a man tries to control the situation b/c he's fighting for his M. But here's the point: you cannot control her. And the more she feels you are trying to control her, the more she will prove you can't. It just makes things worse. Besides, what could you do to stop her?

I was given similar advice Dingo.

Every time you bring up OM or A, no matter if it’s giving advice, articles, just talking about it in anyway does one thing, it brings it to the top. It makes her think about it and no matter if it is guilt or joy, it makes her think about it because you brought it up. Please know I understand that what your going through is he11. Do not bring it up, do not talk about it (at this point) if she brings it up. Listen, I contacted the OM and I was flying on emotion, guess what happened? Ten guys came and dug a huge whole and threw me into it and my W filled it in. It backfired and set me back far. Right now all you can do for you and your M is to not bring it up and work on you, become who you want to be and a H that only a fool would leave. I wish I had some advice on the how to part, but I do not.

[Spartan]

I agree with these guys. I think you need to 100% drop the rope and start concentrating on yourself.

I also agree that the push/pull dynamic is strong with you guys and I get the feeling you're still very available to her. The roller coaster ride never ends until we decide to end it. I think it's time to get off the ride and just start doing your thing while she figures out (on her own) what she wants to do.

[dingo]

There is obviously a push-pull dynamic here that I guess I have allowed to happen because she has claimed to be working on things and I have been following the patience and space advice. I am starting to understand that I need to end the cycle and let the chips fall where they may. As you all know, its difficult to know the border between being there as a caring friend and detaching/maintaining space/going dark, etc. and the WS seems to have a knack for manipulating you across that border.

I have brought up the marriage or affair extremely infrequently, if at all, over the past 2-3 weeks. She has been the one to bring it up. The articles I sent to her were ones I sent very shortly after the affair was uncovered when I was a mess of emotions and holding on as tightly as I could. She asked me to re-send them to her and then initiated the conversation about them.

The cycle seems to be 2-3 weeks of her stating that we are working on the marriage, followed by an incident of out of work contact and a sudden change of heart to wanting a divorce. Today she claims that she is no longer leaning towards divorce but thinks she might want to work on things again. She sent a couple of job postings that she sent resumes into today, she said she's really been focusing on the positive these last 3 days.

I have been working on being a better husband - the type only a fool would leave. I thought it was working. She said she had noticed a lot of changes and liked them. Then all of a sudden, she gets a fix, and everything changes overnight.

Ive tried to give her space and she never takes it. I recognize that this is the rollercoaster but I don't know if I can get off of it unless I ask her to move out. When we get to that point, she always claims that she wants to work on things.

We'll see what she has for me when I get home tonight. I plan to hold her to the same thing I said to her before i left. Zero contact, new job ASAP (within 3-4 weeks is probably realistic), a definable plan that helps her get over the affair, a definable plan that helps us heal our marriage and willingness to make the tough choices and adhere to those plans. Otherwise, I think she needs to move out.

[Spartan]

the WS seems to have a knack for manipulating you across that border.

This sounds like something I said in the past so I'll give you the same advice I got. While it may feel like you're being 'manipulated' to cross the border it is your decision if you go or not. I knew what was happening every time I jumped back on the ride but I wanted things to work out so bad I kept jumping and then getting hurt when W went back to OM or did something else stupid. Every time it was my fault.

The cycle seems to be 2-3 weeks of her stating that we are working on the marriage, followed by an incident of out of work contact and a sudden change of heart to wanting a divorce.

Typical for the WAS. They are very confused. Just stay clear of it and concentrate on you.

I recognize that this is the rollercoaster but I don't know if I can get off of it unless I ask her to move out. When we get to that point, she always claims that she wants to work on things.

Also pretty typical because she's confused and may be doing a little cake eating. Has she ever felt like she'll lose you? Are you ready for that? It seems like there are some boundaries floating around without consequences. Are you really ready to enforce the consequences (be 100% sure you are)?

And you can go dark/dim while still living in same house. It's tough but many of us have done it. Just find something or somewhere else to be when she's in the house.

[dingo]

I am sure there is a lot of cake eating going on. I doubt she's ever felt like she'd lose me. If she has, its been early on, soon after the affair was outed.

There are also boundaries floating around without consequences. I feel like I am at the point with this where its in my best interest and our best interest to enforce them. However, I am having an extremely difficult time enforcing them. I feel convicted and then crumble when she gives me an opening.

I am sure this isn't a surprise to anyone but she had nothing new to say when I got home. More time; wants to talk to some friends; sees no future together so even though she could end the affair, doesn't see why she should; is afraid any improvements we make to the relationship would just be short-lived; wants a separation instead of a divorce; blah blah blah.

I guess I really need to get tough with myself before I can with her. I read back on my old posts and can't help but see how pathetic I sound. Like a broken record around and around and around - its almost like I have an addiction I need to break too.

[sandi2]

The cycle seems to be 2-3 weeks of her stating that we are working on the marriage, followed by an incident of out of work contact and a sudden change of heart to wanting a divorce.

Another example of how an A is an addiction. She will vacillate between you and OM until something either causes her to realize what she really wants, or something dies. It is much better for the WW to realize what it is she really wants and for her to have to "work" to get it, rather than wait till something dies.

Today she claims that she is no longer leaning towards divorce but thinks she might want to work on things again.

As long as she is using words like "might", she's not serious about it. When you proposed M, how you would have felt if she said she might, but then again she might not?

As long as she has you and the M on hold, while she has OM waiting in the wings, don't expect successful results.

She sent a couple of job postings that she sent resumes into today, she said she's really been focusing on the positive these last 3 days.

Now if the two of you had sat down and worked up a plan in how to heal the M after her A....and she had agreed whole-heartily to showing evidence of ending the A and moving forward in the M....and if she was willing to give accountability of her time/actions.....then I would say this was a sign of her good efforts. However, by giving her all the power in the R (IOW, it's up to whatever she decides about it), then I have doubts about this. She may have had some degree of good intentions at the time, but it has to be more than good intentions to keep her on the right road. As long as she's saying she "might" work on the M, it's not a commitment and she's leaving the backdoor open to continue the A.

I have been working on being a better husband - the type only a fool would leave. I thought it was working. She said she had noticed a lot of changes and liked them. Then all of a sudden, she gets a fix, and everything changes overnight.

Okay, so you've shown her what she could have in you as her H. But if she thinks she can keep you at bay while she continues with the back & forth game, being the wonderful H won't be enough to save this M. You showed her your changes and she chose to dabble in the A again, so now it's time to respond by showing her a strong, decisive man who will not share his W with another man. That means you won't put up with anymore cr@p. You won't settle for her crumbs, nor her wishy-washy heart. You know what you want....which is a W who wants to be with you and no other man. An open M is a deal breaker for you. If she's unsure about making that decision and keeps having to "think about it", then you should prepare to make some decisions of your own. If you don't, then I think the disrespect for you will rise in her until she has no intentions at all of staying in this MR. Even a WW/WAW will respect a man who who lives by the convictions of his own heart. You can forgive her, but you don't have to continue to live in that situation...while you hope upon hope she will pick you over OM.

You may have to consider separation before she will see what she's lost. And I do believe a WW has to suffer some kind of loss...strong enough to hit the core of her being. Otherwise, she stands a good chance of being a serial cheater. However, don't throw this at her like a threat b/c it won't have the results you want. In fact, don't tell her any of this I've shared in this post. It's for your eyes only. But if she starts up about having to think about it, you may tell her you both have some big decisions to make.

We'll see what she has for me when I get home tonight. I plan to hold her to the same thing I said to her before i left. Zero contact, new job ASAP (within 3-4 weeks is probably realistic), a definable plan that helps her get over the affair, a definable plan that helps us heal our marriage and willingness to make the tough choices and adhere to those plans. Otherwise, I think she needs to move out.

Good! But know it won't be easy if you are tested to stick to your word.

I don't know if the two of you could survive 3-4 weeks without her working, but that is a lifetime for a WW who is trying to end an A with a man she works closely with. I just don't know if it's doable.

Remember what you said about her getting her "fix"? You can almost judge how the A is going by her mood or her decision about working on the M. If things aren't going with OM quite like she wants or she's withdrawing from the A, then her mood will probably be sad/quite/angry/wanting to be alone. If she seems to be all giddy/silly and happy acting, then that usually means OM is feeding her big spoonfuls of ego food and they are closer.

Don't react hastily in anything you decide. Be sure you know what you want and have a plan before reacting out of emotions. This your life and you will live with the good and/or the bad outcome.

[Spartan]

I am sure this isn't a surprise to anyone but she had nothing new to say when I got home. More time; wants to talk to some friends; sees no future together so even though she could end the affair, doesn't see why she should; is afraid any improvements we make to the relationship would just be short-lived; wants a separation instead of a divorce; blah blah blah.

There's a lot of crap in there. My question to you is:

What do you want to do?

Are you confident in your current direction?

I thought this was good so reposting it

Okay, so you've shown her what she could have in you as her H. But if she thinks she can keep you at bay while she continues with the back & forth game, being the wonderful H won't be enough to save this M. You showed her your changes and she chose to dabble in the A again, so now it's time to respond by showing her a strong, decisive man who will not share his W with another man. That means you won't put up with anymore cr@p. You won't settle for her crumbs, nor her wishy-washy heart. You know what you want....which is a W who wants to be with you and no other man. An open M is a deal breaker for you. If she's unsure about making that decision and keeps having to "think about it", then you should prepare to make some decisions of your own. If you don't, then I think the disrespect for you will rise in her until she has no intentions at all of staying in this MR. Even a WW/WAW will respect a man who who lives by the convictions of his own heart. You can forgive her, but you don't have to continue to live in that situation...while you hope upon hope she will pick you over OM.

[dingo]

Well - i guess it may be important to say that I don't know for sure that she saw the OM outside of work. I had to help a friend move last Saturday. Around 11AM, she called to see how we were doing. I was busy at the time and didnt get the call. I tried to call her back and it went right to VM. Eventually she texted me back and even though i tried again to call, all of the communications that day was through text. I got home at around 4pm and she didnt get home until 5-530. She didnt have a good excuse for why she didnt call or where she was - just shopping and out running some errands.

Then of course I went out of town for a few days earlier in the week and who knows what went on then.

She has been depressed, quiet, etc since the weekend. I took that as a sign that she was unhappy around me but you think it may be a sign that she's withdrawing from the affair?

I can't believe anything she says as they've been all over the place from 100% divorce to i want things to work with you but don't see how they can.

Her actions have been somewhat more consistent and seem to indicate that she wants to stay married. She still cleans the house regularly, talks about improvements she wants to make to the house and yard, hasn't packed a single thing, has been looking for jobs (and even told me she asked the OM to look for another job and he has been)etc.

To answer the question of what I want - I obviously want this marriage to work out but more importantly, I want my life to start to move forward again. I gave an ultimatum and it seems to have had somewhat of an affect on her - maybe not the 100% desired affect but one nonetheless. I do want to see more action on her part - commitment, plan of action, etc but i don't want to force her there under duress. She knows the conditions that I gave her to stay in the house are still applicable - new job, zero contact whatsoever, commitment to ending the affair and working on the marriage with plans for both - as I reiterated them to her last night. I almost think I have to stick to my guns and ask her to leave if she doesn't agree to them within the next day or so. Even though this will probably push her to the OM in the short term, i don't know if anything else will push her off the fence.

Then again, sometimes I think I need to be more patient and loving and let her find her own way through this.