Who is this woman & what has she done with my wife

[Cadet]

Whether she is WAW or MLC it does not change what YOU do.

As far as the specifics on what to do, that will come as time goes along.

Confusion = MLC and yes she sounds like she is cake eating.

You can not take one single moment,day,week, month or year and say this is the way she is.
Did you marry her when she acted the same way?
I guess something may have changed.
It can and will happen again.
It all takes time.

Do you need to be mad and angry to be dark?
I guess I dont understand that.

[TSquared2]

Idk, THX,

It's a fine, and vague, fuzzy line between being a caring, compassionate human, and being a doormat. Easy to cross, both ways.

One thing I did tell my W on our anniversary "D talk", was that if we D, the friends thing wasn't going to happen, the "buddy system" would close down, at least for a good long while until I "got her out of my system"...but I would always be "cordial" to her in front of the kids. This was delivered rather "Mr. Spock"-like. No anger or any other emotion...just the facts. She didn't like that much from her reaction.

Have you dis-passionately told her something like that?

And they DO have a habit of hearing what they want to hear, and not what they don't...it's all about them and what fits into their world-view right now.

And yeah, they do "tell" on themselves if you are quiet and listen...

[etc]

I think the key is that if it's MLC, there's nothing YOU can do to fix it. Going dim/dark is only for YOU and won't fix it. GALing is for YOU and won't fix it. MLC is a journey and long process that they have to go through without YOU. So, to flip the situation on its head, now it's time for YOU to go on your journey and learn about yourself and how YOU can be best YOU possible.

ETC

[THX-1138]

Confusion = MLC and yes she sounds like she is cake eating.

Do you need to be mad and angry to be dark?
I guess I dont understand that.

Cadet,
I don't need to be angry to be dark, but I am confused about how I can stop her from cake eating while still being agreeable, showing my PMA, and not come off as being cold.

Specifically, when she comes in 15 minutes early to pick up kids and plops down to chat with me, what should I do?

One of my boundaries was this: if you file for D, then I am no longer your buddy. Meaning; no cake eating. But it seems I am already allowing it.

I am not even sure that being dark is a good idea in my case. W's love language is quality time, and that makes it easy to make her feel loved by me with no pressure or ILY's . All I have to do is talk to her and she gets a fix. She literally lights up when she talks to me. Do I risk quashing that? Seems like a lot of guys here would like to have this problem. I think the objective is to be perceived as her best option once she stops Replaying with OM and her playing young routine.

On the other hand, I think I want her to feel emotionally isolated so that her inevitable and coming crash has a better chance of pushing her back to reality. And to me. She is in the early Euphoria of MLC/separation excitement, so I am expecting a crash fairly soon.

Unless she is truly going to be happier without me. In which case I am scr3wed either way.


It's a tough puzzle to figure. How dark is dark, and what does it look like specifically?

[reachingHigher]

Hi THX!

I read the last few posts and your agony over splitting the idea of being available for quality time and not being available ... to give W the signal that you won't be her best friend if you D, caught my eye.

It's a tough road. I faced the same constant dilemma last fall and am now in reconciliation with H moved back home.

Have you talked to a DB coach? When I felt that total confusion about my sitch was when I felt the coach helped the most.

There was advice I would read here that applied to some sitches at some times, that would conflict with what the coach told me.

I ended up working on ..... occasionally talking about and apologizing for my failings in the M, mixed with some quality time with H and boys (cookouts mostly with the boys--very little in public) and some times turning down H's request for time together as it drew closer to the impending D. This sent the signal I wouldn't always be there for him.

The coach said to inject as much humor as possible. I didn't do this very well, but for some people it works I guess. One time I met H with the boys at a large church parking lot about a week before Christmas and two weeks before expected D. I was dropping off some more of his things from home to him and all I could do was sit in the car and cry. I was so ashamed. So I have done everything wrong in the book!

H & I always had texting and some calls and almost always twice a week visits. And I can assure you it was rough at times.

My H also told me how happy he was with his new lifestyle. There is just some getting "out there" that has to happen before someone realizes that they may want what is right in front of them all along!

Making permanent changes for yourself and letting the spouse see those changes over time is so important.

It sounds like you're pretty grounded just wondering what to do.

Personally, I hardly see W chatting from time to time with you as cake-eating. Maybe I should've read more of your sitch.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I looked at some more of what you posted in the past and still don't think chatting with her is cake eating. But then I like to chat and my H doesn't.

I guess you are saying that you feel too physically attracted to her and that it is too painful? I can understand that. I'm sorry it hurts so bad. I really, really understand!

~ ~ ~ ~

I looked at your question again and tried to pic myself in the scenario. W filed for D and has moved out? I think I would be available sometimes for chatting and sometimes I would be busy doing something else. Maybe a quick "how are you? Good to see you!" On those days (possible side hug, lol!)

Something to let her know you aren't always there for her but also allows time for her to rebond to you at other times? Idk. Just guessing.

[THX-1138]

Well,

I am still unsure about how to go about this "being dark" BS. What I do know is this: I am now moving into an angry stage of my personal grieving process. I have become sick and tired of feeling like the human punching bag of my soon-to-be ex-wife. All experienced while she looks upon the entire ordeal as an act of personal transformation and liberating growth for herself. Oblivious and happy. Flirting, and making herself available to other men.

And I am sick and tired of being sick and tired.

This life is not healthy for me. I cannot control my feelings. I can only control what I do, not how I feel. What I do can effect change in how I feel. Therefore, actions are required. Changes in assumptions and plans are required. A new attitude. Required.

Most of my confidants and my counselor are making insinuations that I really should be thinking about moving on, visualizing a life without W, for my own mental health. No one who knows us believe she is ever coming back. I am seriously doubting as well. More doubts now than I ever have allowed myself before.

And frankly, I am so hurt, angry, revulsed, humiliated, depressed, and shattered, I am not sure that a reconciliation would be possible - or even advisable anymore. It's easy for me to admit that I do want her back right now. Today. Tomorrow. Next month. But if she were to actually return someday, I would be so hurt, so angry, so betrayed; I might make our possible future together into a nightmare as bad as the current one.

A significant part of my inner core wants to exact a revenge on her for this betrayal, this violation, this careless evisceration performed on me by the most important person in my life. Being in a situation where one requires almost limitless apology, abasement, and reassurance from someone I no longer trust, nor believe in, seems like a bad idea. I wrote that: I no longer believe in my wife.

Obviously, the demons in my head are raging right now. I write this from within a fugue and without pausing to consider logic, or how my feelings are likely to change and soften over time. (Or by this afternoon.) This is a cathartic bellowing. Perhaps my feelings will change, that this screed is a childish breaking of dishes, a tantrum, me screaming at G-d. But there is some truth to what I have written. I am changed. I am not the man I was.

____

Facts: My wife is having a grand time right now. She feels liberated and happy. She already has moved on. She is living as a single woman, and has discarded her responsibilities like brushing the confetti from the shoulders of a New Year's party dress.

She has discarded her wedding band, is taking birth control pills, and has made herself available to other men.


Facts: I am having a bad morning.

I have had good times recently. For as many as several hours a day, I don't even think about this stuff. Amazing. I am in recovery.

Proposal: Should I seek comfort in the arms of another? No. Or no? Why not? If the person whom I seek out is aware of my mental state, my damaged persona, and is preferably in a similar place herself, I see little reason to hesitate. (I am aware that there is a steady stream of recently divorced women, some of whom might welcome my conversation and company.) Am I ready for this move? No, not yet. But I don't see myself standing for an additional six months. This week marks the half-year anniversary of my wife's ILYBINILWY separation speech.

My analyst suggests seeking female companionship right now is an acceptable(or even good) idea. She understands I need to grieve for a while longer, and that I am not ready yet. But she also implies that moving on is necessary in order to heal myself. She does not see the harm in seeking a similarly damaged person to help me through this. Ha! Realization: I might help a similarly damaged person through her own nightmare. Now, I can claim altruism as motive. Rationalization is fun!

Analogy: For 23 years, my wife and I have been playing Milton Bradley's Game of Life together. We have been choosing cards, spinning the wheel, living together, loving together, huddling together, moving around the little paths together, learning and loving to play the game as a team.

But some time ago, and without my knowledge, she began making secret plans to leave the game which we have been playing. She made plans to leave our playing field. She began to entertain thoughts of playing a different game, with new partners, on a different playing board. A new board where I cannot follow, and where I may not ever visit. I can only watch her game from the weak distance, through a scratchy piece of glass and listen to snippets of the new game on a scratchy AM radio. And because of our children, I will be obligated to watch her game through that scratched and cloudy glass, forever. I cannot even turn away from it, not even if I want to. The only thing I can do, is to learn how to bury the pain of watching.

My wife has left our playing field. She has knocked over the pieces, taken the ball and gone home, folded her hand, and quit the game. With these deliberate actions, she has emotionally kicked all my teeth out, and stomped on my heart.

She is in the process of destroying our financial security. She appears barely cognizant of the wounds she has caused in our children and to members of both families. She has left the game and gone to a secret dimension where I am not welcome. She has cast aside her wedding vows, and her ring, and has made herself available to others.

A concept: Love. What is love? I know what it is not: Love is not the pitter-pat of a teenage crush. Love is not a thumping of the heart, or butterflies in the stomach. That is immature, teenage love. Mature love is different. Mature, grown-up love is an intellectual decision; a decision to cherish and honor another person, through good times and bad.

But there is more. Mature love is exceeded by an even greater type of love. This is called marital love. Marital love is mature love, but also requires commitment. An commitment arrived at jointly ,to cherish and honor reciprocally. Both parties agree to love each other, without condition, and without limit. The agreement is binding unto death. There is even a legal contract for this. This contract is the marital vow.

What happens when one party decides to void her half of the contract? Decides unilaterally, to stop loving, to stop cherishing, to refuse to honor her husband? She seeks to legally end the marital agreement, her contract, and her love for her husband.

ILYBINILWY

And here I am.

That is all for now.

[ForeverYoung]

Wow, I'm so sorry to hear of the deep pain you are in THX.

Proposal: Should I seek comfort in the arms of another? No. Or no? Why not?

Because you realize this would be nothing but a temporary diversion. It would only end up adding more complexity to your already painful sitch.

You must find lasting happiness and contentment on your own before you can have it with another partner.

You can attend a D support group for help though. Just talking with others going through the same mess can help a lot. Kinda like here.

What happens when one party decides to void her half of the contract? Decides unilaterally, to stop loving, to stop cherishing, to refuse to honor her husband? She seeks to legally end the marital agreement, her contract, and her love for her husband.

The other party has to decide how they are going to respond to that. You can drop the rope and step way back to allow her crises to play out, and deal with all the pain that will entail, or start the D process and deal with all the pain that'll entail. I know, it sux that there is no easy button for this crap.

Either way, you have to start building your new life without her.

[willbwell]

1138, I understand it all. I am where you are.

I put myself on Match last year. I wanted some validation. I dated a few times. it was fun. but deep down was not what I wanted yet(at that time) Knew if h came back or made any inclination, I'd drop that person flat.

the pain is real, unbelievable. FY has good advice.
as for me that is what I am (trying) to do

[CharlieBrown]

THX,

Part of coming on here and venting is that it provides you a safe place to open up with your most angry and bitter emotions. And everyone here has felt those at one point or another. I hope it was cathartic for you and encourage you to use this as an outlet.

But, as far as going out into the dating scene, from what you wrote I think you know the answer to this. Not only would this be unfair to the woman (even if you disclose it) and add unneeded complexity to your life, but it would keep you from working on you. As important, you have two kids that need your focus as well so you can all get through this. They were riding in the back seat of your Life car when your W decided to jump out (nice metaphor, btw) and they are still in the car with you. Would their dad going out trolling for women that are willing to be with him despite knowing he is an emotional mess help or hurt them dealing with what they are dealing with? Or, do they need their dad to be the one who is doing the right things and moving forward with a clear head? Again, from what you have written, you seem like a good man who knows the answer.

CB

[TSquared2]

Very well put ^^^^^