on the edge...

[dingo]

Thanks for the advice AS. The mindreading is a tough one for me but I will keep working at it.

Thanks for the support on the hot/cold issue. That also threw me for a loop yesterday because it was such a quick mood swing. I guess I will prep myself to be all smiles and cheerfulness tonight no matter what her demeanor.

I did indeed buy her the flowers without expectations of reciprocation. I did it simply because I wanted to do something nice for her. I just don't want it to come across as pressure.

[sandi2]

If the MC is not solution based on how to survive an affair, I am concerned he/she may do more harm than good. IMHO, for the two of you to meet together in the session to talk about the problems in the R may not accomplish anything but further resentment toward each other. Both of you need guidance as what to do to go forward.....but perhaps it should be separate sessions. She needs a professional who will outline the steps necessary for her to get be able to end her emotional side of the A and be faithful to you. She needs to know what to expect in the weeks ahead, as she will face withdrawals from the A and then depression. And you need to know what you should & shouldn't be doing during her period of withdrawing from the addiction of the A.

You will want to help her, but it's like trying to help another person with their own addiction....drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, etc. Have you researched how an affair affects the brain? It's amazing.

The withdrawal will be a tough time. You can't help her through it. In fact, there isn't a lot you can do as far as reconciling or piecing the MR back together until she gets through that withdrawal period. However, you can make a 100% effort into not doing things that you already know pi$$es her off. That should go without saying. But as to expecting to gain a lot of ground right away, I don't believe you can....until she makes that withdrawal journey.

I hope what I've said does not confuse you. B/c you continue to focus on being the best man you know how. Doing that much should keep you pretty busy. By the time she gets OM out of her system, you will have your self-improvement patterns down pat.

Until she gets through the withdrawals, she won't be very logical. Her emotions sure won't be stable. She may change her mind several times a day. When depression hits, she may go zombie on you.

It will be a hard test for you b/c you may experience a few good days and your hopes will rise, then without apparent reason, she will seem cold/distant. You will need to work at being the stable/strong one. You don't need to over-kill in your attempts at being a better H. At first, everything you may try could seem to hit her the wrong way. That's why we remind you that it is an addiction withdrawal that only she can whip.

I am very concerned about her continuing to work at the same location as OM. She may not be able to withdraw from the A. As with any other addiction, you have to go without it first. Every time she sees the OM, it will be like taking another drink or inhaling another cigarette. The best thing she could do for the M is to find employment elsewhere, b/c each time she has contact with OM will be like yanking her back to square one.

Another issue for the one who has had the A is if/when those feelings stay stirred up through contact from the OP, it can be misunderstood as "true love". Being uninformed of how it all works, a person in an A can think that since they continue to experience feelings for the OP....then it surely means they are soul mates and are meant to be together. That is why I said she needs guidance as to what to expect and what plan of action to take. However, as the H.....I doubt you are the one to advise her. Even a friend who has experienced this....and saved the M, may be able to give her mature council.

I agree that you can't push with suggestions (or what you may see as encouragement) for her to seek help, but neither does she need to let much time get by before taking some plan of action to protect the M from this OM/A. You really are in a critical spot! She won't even see OM as being an enemy to the MR and may think he's a great guy and the more you say....the more you look like the bad guy. See what I mean? That's why she needs an outside source to help her, and why you can't be the one to do it.

Have I confused you about any of what I've said?

[dingo]

Thanks again Sandi. Your posts have been invaluable.

I also am very concerned about the work situation and she and I actually spoke about it yesterday. I was the one to initiate the conversation and did so calmly and un-emotionally. I expressed to her that I was concerned that her work situation would make it very difficult for us to work things out. She admitted to having some group conversations with the OM and other employees that were personal in nature as well as a brief exchange of the 'how was your weekend' variety. She said it is very difficult for her not to associate with him but that she is trying. I told her I know that she's trying and I appreciate her efforts.

We continued our discussion in a pretty calm manner. I used some of the wisdom I have learned here - recognizing that her 'work' wouldn't look the same or progress at the same rate as my 'work' and that I do know that she is trying very hard for us. She mentioned that she was very surprised at how hard I was working and fighting for the marriage and that she didnt expect that I would fight or would be able to change as much as I have. She also questioned why I have given her so many chances and why I haven't moved on.

She said a number of pretty important things: that she's still not 100% convinced that she's making the right decision by working on the marriage, that she would be giving more effort if she felt that staying in the marriage was her only option, and that its very difficult for her to talk about things with me because she's ashamed and is afraid that being totally honest might hurt my feelings. I told her that we should try to be as honest with each other as possible so we both understand what we're really up against. I said that I am fighting so hard because I love her and believe in our marriage and what we committed to. She told me that she loves OM - which was a pretty tough blow to me. I asked why she was staying in the marriage and she said that she loved me too, that she didnt get married only to get divorced 2 years later and because she feels its the right thing to do.

We talked again about the job situation and she said that she is looking for another job. It will at least be until the end of the month though as she has surgery late in October. She also said that Mondays are very tough for her because of the anticipation of seeing OM for the first time in a few days. She said that its good and bad anticipation - that part of her is excited to see him but part of her sees it as a situation that she has to resist.

We stopped talking about this point and I thanked her for her honesty and efforts and she thanked me for my efforts, support and that she was able to be honest with me without me getting mad.

I am obviously very concerned about the work situation and also that she's still not seeing that the marriage is her only option. I worry that this combination will not allow her to have the strength or will to resist the temptations or accept the withdraws.

She doesn't have a friend like you described but she does have a number of friends that do believe in marriage (single and married friends), that understand that relationships take work and friends that encourage her to do the right thing. I actually mentioned you again and asked my wife if I could send her more information that you sent to me. She agreed to that and I edited out parts of your above post that I didnt feel like she needed to see. I emailed it to her and she said she would read it today. I also send her some articles that discussed the points you brought up about why she may feel how she feels about the OM and how the affair is similar to an addiction.

We did cancel out MC appointment for tomorrow. After our talk last night, I genuinely believe that she wants this to work and is working things out for herself. I am trying to continue with positive interactions only between us and will bring up some sort of program again after a few days

[dingo]

also - the flowers went over well too.

[sandi2]

Based on what you've said about the conversation with your W, she is trying to be honest about it. It must have been awful to hear her actually say she loved the OM. But here's what I noticed that may be a bit different with your stitch (not that it doesn't happen, just doesn't seem as common) and that is saying she loved you also. So many times the W will have such negative feelings toward her H that she doesn't feel love emotions for him. Or as some experience, they are given the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech. So try to take it as a positive sign, but don't try to dig for more right away. B/c her feelings are really confusing for her. If she's got two great guys who want her....and she has feelings for both of them, try not to question her further on that point (and it will be hard not to ask again). Remember, every time you ask her about it, you are pressing her to make a choice right then & there. Even though it seems as if your M should not be an "option" and she shouldn't have to "choose", every time she's pressed by you or anyone else....she feels she has to make a decision at that moment. You don't want her trying to make decisions when she doesn't even know her own heart/mind right now.

I wish I could tell her that I was probably the most straight-laced person ever! I was the last woman on earth anyone would have thought about having an interest in any OM. It can happen to anyone. Yes, it is through our own free will, but given the right (or wrong) circumstances and going without certain needs met for so long can make any person vulnerable to the attention of another one who seems to care about us. I was not informed about all that brain chemistry that caused the same "in love" feelings when having an A that was similar to how I felt when I really fell in love with my H. But one way to know that it is an addiction is for her to go without seeing/contacting him....or know when the next time will be. It won't take her long to realize it. You see, she could make it through the weekend b/c she knew once Monday came...she would be seeing him again.

An A is built on secrecy and deception. It is a fantasy where the A partners see each other looking and acting their very best. They don't have to deal with the down side of reality that you and she faces all the time. They have a "select" time together. Once that is taken away, the excitement leaves with it.

I hope she will find another place of employment for the sake of the M. But I think OM will make it difficult for her to just walk away.

I'm glad the two of you could talk. However, I know how she feels about not wanting to discuss certain things with you. It may be best that you don't ask for every detail, IDK....everyone is different. But the more you know, the more you will have to overcome and get past it. After time has gone by, you may discover it is more than you can handle. Allow yourself time to digest a little before asking for more.

Oh, and about the M or the OM being an option. For me, it was like I had the idea he was my last chance at real love. "What if this is my only chance to be really happy and I throw it away?" Like I said, her feelings and mindset are very mixed up right now. I know it has to be hell for you, but rest assured, it is for her...as well.

[dingo]

Yesterday was our actual anniversary and we had another great night out. Went to a nice restaurant, had a nice meal and shared our favorite dessert. With a few exceptions, the last week or so has really felt good. She has laughed and joked with me, smiled a lot and invoked a lot of our old customs/pet names, etc. I have taken some of the advice from the books and board that say 'have an affair with your wife' or 'treat her like you did when you first started dating' and they seem to be working.

She did say that she read the sections of your post Sandi and appreciated them. She said it was informative but that just like everything else I have given her, some things applied to our situation and some things didn't. When I asked her what didn't, she said that that just because she may feel a compulsion to spend time or contact the OM, doesn't mean that she feels he's her soul mate. She's actually said something similar before: "its not like he's my knight in shining armor." I took these as pretty positive statements. She also said that she understands the difference between love and lust, that she has read a lot, if not all, of the things I have sent to her in the past and has really spent a lot of time thinking about our situation rationally and logically. Again, i think these are all positive statements.

Tonight is going to be a big test for me. We drove into work separately and after work she is going to yoga class with one of her friends. This friend had a relationship crisis earlier in the week and after yoga they are going to get a drink and talk about it. While this friend is young and single, she has been one of the people that has encouraged my wife to stay in the marriage and at an earlier point in all of this, refused to hang out with her and the OM. The tough part for me is that my wife is notoriously bad about keeping me in the loop on her plans. She will tell me she will be home around 830 and not get home until 1030 with no phone call, text, etc. This was the case long before any of the affair stuff and has always been a point of contention between us. I want the courtesy of some basic knowledge of what she's doing and when she expects to be home but she thinks of that as me being her parent. Of course now with the affair looming over this, the issue of unaccounted for time becomes even more contentions and causes lots of anxiety in me.

I told her this morning to just let me know what her plans are tonight and she is acutely aware of what that means. I am approaching tonight with the expectation that she will be home later than I expect. I do believe that she will be with her girlfriend tonight and don't want to ruin the progress we've made on the real issue the past few days by making a big deal of a minor issue. I have plans to stay busy doing some of my own things and am actually looking forward to some alone time.

After tonight, the next big test will be next week when I have to go out of town for work for a couple of days. Any advice on how to approach that?

[dingo]

another positive sign - last night when we went to bed, she initiated the kiss goodnight. First time that's happened in a long time. It also had a little more feeling behind it.

[dingo]

bump

[dingo]

bump

[dingo]

well - $hit hit the fan last night - after 2 great weeks of no arguments, very little serious talk about the relationship or the affair, lots of affection, cuddling and i love yous. She was sitting on the couch watching TV and i gave her a kiss on my way through to get changed. When I came back down she smiled at me and said 'you're not going to like what I have to say but I want a divorce.' I asked her why, what had changed, hadn't we had a couple of good weeks, i thought we were making progress, etc. Her answers included she knows there will always be something missing, she can never be happy with me, its too late, i don't love you anymore and I don't want to end my relationship with the OM.

We woke up and went to church this morning and she held my hand through a lot of the service. As we were leaving, i went to hold her hand and she rejected it saying, i don't want to give you any false hopes. On the way home we started talking again and I quoted some of Sandi's posts that I had given to her to read - mostly about the withdrawals and depression from an addiction and how these things would happen and that she should look into getting real help from someone to get through this. She again, said that she had tried everything for as long as she wanted too and that she doesn't want to end the relationship with the OM. She then told me that I was pushing her out the door by fighting for our marriage.

I have to leave town for 3 days starting tomorrow and I am as paranoid as I can possibly be....She agreed to not do anything with the OM for those three days, to not pack anything up and to think about things but she said she doesn't think shes going to change her mind.

As far as I can tell, the trigger for this episode was the upcoming holidays and the fact that she didn't want to go through the holidays 'faking it.'