on the edge...

[sandi2]

Its probably the same old 'he treats me like you did when we were dating' scenario.

I believe she handed you an important key to see into her emotional needs. I think most women want to maintain that level of romantic and emotional intimacy she and her guy experienced before they M. Some men may find that thinking as very unpractical (especially the romantic part), but you know that's what we females like....b/c you knew what to do to get us. Even when life gets in the way, emotionally...we still wish it were the same as before M.

I have learned so much about how differently men and women think, feel, act, and respond to almost everything. Men will find the woman he desires to have a relationship with...and he will began to pursue her by doing things to inspire romantic feelings in her. She is the object of his entire focus. Then, once they get M, he will drop the romantic endeavors (b/c he sees it as no longer "necessary" since he won the girl of his dreams) and he becomes completely focused on providing the practical needs (such as food, shelter, etc., that life requires). To him, a man who gives his family enough of these practical things is being a good H. That's his job as a H. However, the woman feels differently about it. Yes, of course she expects him to hold down a job and provide for his family....but being the "emotional" creature that she is, she is looking to him to continue with the romantic side that captured her heart. After she sees he has stopped...and romance has been adjusted to just having sex, she begins to hint to him that she has certain needs that he isn't meeting. She hints b/c she's embarrassed or thinks it sounds bad to just come out and say plainly what she wants. Some women don't know how to communicate what they need or they try and it comes across as complaining and/or criticizing. His way to deal with it is not to take it seriously or else he tunes her out. So, years of unfulfilled emotional needs can lead to her being very vulnerable for the attention of another man.

Now I realize that men have emotional needs too. And if the couple doesn't have the skills to relate what they need from each other, then the MR will suffer as a result. That doesn't mean every M will have an A, it just means there will be a R breakdown whenever unmet needs continue. Many couples have lived in silent pain for years & years.

So I encourage you to do some research about the differences in men & women's needs. You may be surprised how helpful that will be. For an example, most women feel the need to talk about their problems to their H. It is like therapy for some. Talking helps her deal with it. But she isn't asking him to "fix" what's bothering her at work (or wherever/whatever the problem), she wants him to look her in the eyes and really listen to her talk about it. Most men think he is suppose to tell her what to do to fix it. So that usually leads to more frustration.

People enter into a M with certain expectations, and when those expectations are not met then they have to figure out what to do. Unfortunately, we can make some really bad decisions.

Has your W gone 24 hrs without contacting OM? Perhaps that would be very difficult with them working in the same office, but if she will not be alone with him at work and not contact him....that's a start.

I wanted to clarify something I was saying yesterday. I meant to say that she may not put a 100% effort into working on the M in the beginning. Most WAW's have to work to get to the place of putting that much into it. To the WAW, it is taking all her strength just to end the A and get through the withdrawals. Then afterwards, depression usually follows the withdrawals.

I tell you this so you will be prepared and know that you and your W will not be on the same level nor go at the same speed during the piecing. Your emotions will take a dive several times a day if you are watching her rate of effort. That's why I hope you will focus on what you are doing. Her work and your work will appear completely different from each other.

Btw, when I was speaking about how the woman becomes the complete focus of the man's attention before M and then he "wins" her? Well, I have read a lot of posts from LBH's who admit to being focused too much on the OM and wanting to win back his W from the OM. It's like he sees it as some type of challenge or competition. But let me tell ya, that is the wrong thinking. The A is a symptom of your MR failing. Don't get your mind off on that guy and loose sight of what is really important here. It's not about winning the girl. It's about becoming the best man. Sure, you can win her again, but if you aren't a better man and can't have a better MR than before...then she could have more A's until a D. The point is that she has to believe things will be much better with you. Do you see the difference in becoming a better H and in just winning her back?

[Spartan]

Great post Sandi, especially that last paragraph!!! I think every guy on these boards should read that. It's kind of instinct for us to want to 'win her back' and lose site of the bigger picture.


A book I was recommended that really helped me figure out the differences with men's and women's needs has to do with mars and venus. Sure it won't be hard for you to find.

[jp787]

Thank you Sandi!

You are very wise and articulate, I gain so much from your words!

[dingo]

Thanks Sandi. More extremely valuable information.

I am definitely guilty of all those things you listed. The provider, the fixer, the non-romantic. Obviously we could not relate our needs to each other.

As far as I know, she has not tried to contact him outside of work. Its a certainty that they see each other at work. She did speak with a couple of her friends last night, told them that she was staying in the marriage and asked for their support.

I appreciate your insight into the effort that she is actually putting in, even though it may seem to me like she's not doing much. I guess patience and steadiness is the key...

I do understand the difference between winning her back and doing what I need to do to have a lasting marriage. I feel like i have learned more about relationships in the last 3 months than I have in my entire life leading up to now. I just need the chance to apply it and thats where I see the affair jamming things up.

I guess I do feel/hope she's started to notice some changes and is curious about them because even though she has reverted to the affair a couple of times, there is no longer talk of a divorce or looking for apartments and the demeanor has shifted from mostly negative to more or less neutral.

Our anniversary is next Tuesday and we're going away for the weekend. I guess all is not lost yet....

[jp787]

Our anniversary is next Tuesday and we're going away for the weekend. I guess all is not lost yet....

Be the man you want to be. Don't talk about R or OW at all.

Show her that you are doing well, happy, and listen to her.

[sandi2]

Well thanks guys for your kind words!

She did speak with a couple of her friends last night, told them that she was staying in the marriage and asked for their support.

That's a step in the right direction for her. I hope these are good people who have a positive reflection of M. She needs support, just as you do. So many WAW's today start hanging around women who are not mature-minded enough to encourage anyone to stay in a MR. If she has not pulled away from her old friends and replaced them with younger or single/divorced new friends who encourages her to breakup the M.....that is very good.

I just need the chance to apply it and thats where I see the affair jamming things up.

I believe you will get the chance, but it probably won't be near as quickly as you want.....or maybe not quite like you thought. In other words, some men want to start sending flowers and doing a lot of things he thinks a woman likes. But the "timing" is off. Everything is about timing. When a couple is out of sync, it's like nothing works for them. So for a long time, you will need to measure all your efforts according to good/bad timing with her.

Your anniversary is next week. You said the two of you are going away for the weekend. Was this trip planned before you discovered the A? If not, was the trip your idea? If so, how did she respond? What do you have planned while you are gone on this anniversary weekend?

Sometimes an anniversary can put pressure on a couple who has just experienced what you and your W have. It is very fresh for you. Remember what I said about her emotions to ending the A and the aftermath? Celebrating an anniversary this quickly could be like walking on a tightrope. I'm not saying you shouldn't get away for the weekend. I'm just saying to walk carefully. The emotions and sensitivity are very fragile on both sides right now.

My suggestion is to plan activities that will hold no pressure for either of you. Something that will hold yours and her attention without having to put it all on each other the entire time. Going to a live show, water activities (or depending where you go) sight seeing, etc. I strongly advise you not to use this time to talk about the R, future, past, or anything serious. Keep it fun and as relaxed as possible.

Since there has been no sex since she confessed to the A, she may think you will be expecting it (being your anniversary and all) and that is pressure. Or you may feel you need her to ML with you as her way of showing you she is serious about ending things with OM and staying with you, she may feel she needs to prove it to you this way. There are many things we could bring up along this line of thinking, but the point is it can cause a lot of pressure to build. Then if expectations are not met 110%, it can cause more intensity in your R.

Try not to put your entire future into the success of this weekend. The first several weeks will feel strained and maybe awkward times between you. It's a very long road, so don't give up.

Hope you the best for this weekend. Remember, no expectation.

[dingo]

Well - the weekend went great. It was almost like we put our recent issues out of our minds and just enjoyed time with each other. We had a lot of fun and a lot of good conversation. I didn't feel any stress being with her and I did not get the impression that she did being with me. She was very affectionate with lots of hand holding, and cuddling through the nights. We did end up ML a couple of times and while it wasn't quite as passionate as in the past, it wasn't all that far off. I did make a point to tell her that I didn't want to do anything she didn't feel comfortable with.

Sometime after we got home yesterday, things seemed to change a bit. She seemed to cool off and got a little distant compared to how things were over the weekend. That vibe continued this morning as we drove in to work and I wonder if the OM tried to contact her last night or if she was just thinking about being at work with him today. Of course this change in attitude from her makes me pretty anxious but I tried not to let that show. I did tell her that she can call me or a couple of her friends that I do trust to give her support if she needs it today. That seemed to irritate her a little but she accepted the advice.

I realize that this is the roller coaster ride and while I can accept that she won't always be as she was this weekend with me, I hope that she can keep her mind clear this week with respect to the OM. I also worry about her expectations. I have done a lot of reading and received a lot of support from people (including you folks here) and have learned to temper my expectations. To my knowledge, she has not done much of that yet and is acting off of feelings and emotions. I don't think now is the time to introduce articles or books to her for fear of her seeing that as pressure but I do want her to develop a rational understanding of all this. I worry that she may have unrealistic expectations of the road back. I think she'll have some pretty strong impulses to have some contact today and that coupled with the fact that the anniversary weekend away didnt 'fix' us may cause her to lose hope.

Since our anniversary is actually tomorrow, I did send her flowers at work. That was one of the areas she said she needed more from me on (cards, flowers, etc.) but it may be too much right now. We are also supposed to go out to a nice dinner but maybe I will let her take the lead on whether we go or not.

[dingo]

To answer your other questions Sandi - the trip was originally planned to be a 4-day trip to a destination 5-6 hours away. It was planned when I knew we were having problems but was not aware of the affair. A week or so ago, I asked her if she still wanted to go and she said that she didn't have enough vacation and didn't want to spend ~$2k on a long weekend but that she did still want to go away. We ended up going to a place ~2 hours away for just a normal weekend. The original idea was mine but she had the option to cancel altogether and opted for a shorter trip.

We do have an appointment with the MC on Wednesday. We have been cancelling our weekly appointments for the last 2-3 weeks as she/we felt like the sessions put too much pressure on her. We have been getting along a lot better since we stopped going but she has also reverted to the affair during that time. I am not sure what to do with this session. Maybe one of us should go alone? Maybe her?

[dingo]

bump

[AnotherStander]

Well - the weekend went great.

Excellent! Enjoy it as a baby step, but drop the expectations!

Sometime after we got home yesterday, things seemed to change a bit. She seemed to cool off and got a little distant compared to how things were over the weekend. That vibe continued this morning as we drove in to work and I wonder if the OM tried to contact her last night or if she was just thinking about being at work with him today.

It is totally normal for her to run hot and cold like that. DON'T mindread anything into it!! Just back off and give her time and space. She'll come back around. You should EXPECT her to come close and then push away, it will happen. And if you expect it, then when it does happen you'll just shrug your shoulders and keep on DB'ing.

I did tell her that she can call me or a couple of her friends that I do trust to give her support if she needs it today. That seemed to irritate her a little but she accepted the advice.

Don't do that, you're applying pressure to her. You're basically telling her that something is wrong with her and she needs to get help on your terms. Just give her space, let her figure things out on her own.

To my knowledge, she has not done much of that yet and is acting off of feelings and emotions. I don't think now is the time to introduce articles or books to her for fear of her seeing that as pressure but I do want her to develop a rational understanding of all this.

You are right that this is not the time, and you are right that she's operating off of emotions right now. You are wrong to expect her to "develop a rational understanding", that is part of HER journey and it will take a long time for her to get there. Be patient and let her take that journey herself. You cannot help her along that path. The more you try and intervene the longer it will take her to get there. I've used this analogy before, but if you were running a marathon and were nearing the finish, how would you like it if someone pulled alongside you in a car and offered to give you a ride the rest of the way?

I worry that she may have unrealistic expectations of the road back. I think she'll have some pretty strong impulses to have some contact today and that coupled with the fact that the anniversary weekend away didnt 'fix' us may cause her to lose hope.

Yeah, that's what mind-reading does. It makes you worry about stuff you have no control over and that may not even be true. Quit the mind-reading.

Since our anniversary is actually tomorrow, I did send her flowers at work. That was one of the areas she said she needed more from me on (cards, flowers, etc.) but it may be too much right now.

You've got to learn to do things like this with NO expectations!! You did it, now quit worrying about whether it's too much, or not enough, etc. Don't expect her to reciprocate. It's a one-way gesture. If she doesn't respond, no biggie. If she does, well then it's a bonus.