Struggling!

[ssmguy]

She seems happy with the way things are. She thinks the lengthy sexual ordeals I would like to have are too time consuming. She doesn't see the point in them. She has indicated that people should be free to have their own sexual styles, and I agree with that. My only problem is that she has also indicated that her "style" of sex that suits her at this stage is essentially for it to be sort of abstract.

From my point of view, it's not good in the long run to have sex with someone who doesn't want it. You eventually come to think of sex as always having negative emotions on the part of your partner and that you get through it only by focusing on your own arousal and orgasm.

Long kisses? Sure, as long as she feels they're not going to lead to sex.

Happy, well, understand the context. I'm not upset that kissing doesn't lead to sex. I expect that now and it's the norm. Kind of like you're happy to buy a lottery ticket, but you're not upset every time you don't win the $200 million jackpot.

[Ambivalent]

ssmguy,

What accuracy says is what a LRT is. But not a week or month, it needs to be a mystery and you guys need to go to a sex therapist. Something is not adding up.

You say she hasn't climaxed, with you or at all? Has she explored herself? Has she used a vibrator? Has she seen any amateur porn, to see what kinds of things she hasn't tried?

I have a hard time believing she has had affairs, gotten physical with them and not had any pleasure.

I strongly disagree with an open marriage for many reasons. STD's, emotional reasons, marriage vows, too many ways to get hurt or hurt someone.

Does she love you? Is she staying for the kids? How long has she gone to therapy? What type of therapy?

[MrBond]

"she has also indicated that her "style" of sex that suits her at this stage is essentially for it to be sort of abstract."

Has she ever explained what this means?

"Long kisses? Sure, as long as she feels they're not going to lead to sex."

Then don't let it lead to sex. You got to start somewhere. But if you and she are fine with the status quo, that's your choice. Good luck to you though.

[ssmguy]

Been to a sex therapist. Improved the relationship but not the sex.

Never climaxed. Never explored herself as far as I know. She's not interested in trying -- she thinks it's kind of freaky and a waste of time. Never a vibrator. Not interested in porn.

She hasn't had affairs. She has a lot of activities which are fulfilling, but not affairs. She's not interested in that sort of thing with anybody. Why is this so hard to believe? The major complaint of women is lack of desire, and I seem to be having a hard time suggesting that such a woman even exists in this dialog! Hello? She's not interested, and not just because the lighting isn't right or the phase of the moon. She's not interested, regardless of the phase of the moon or my romantic attempts. I don't think that's unusual for a woman past childbearing age and menopause.

Yes, she loves me and says so, and gives me valentine's day cards to that effect. You know, it's possible to love somebody romantically without wanting sex! Don't tell me you find that shocking. I thought it was a common complaint!

As for open marriages, I would agree with you that for most people it doesn't work. But to say that open marriages flat out don't work for anybody is patently incorrect. Almost like saying you don't believe in gay love, or whatever. Sure, it might not work for you, but as a generalization it would be patently wrong. Some people are quite different when it comes to jealousy and their whole sense of sexuality and integration with their feelings.

As for getting hurt with open marriages, that's exactly the point -- you talk things through so that you don't get hurt. No secrets. But the premise is you only do an open marriage if you won't get hurt sharing your partner.

I could just as easily apply your argument to a normal marriage. You should avoid it because most marriages end within 12 years, causing untold amounts of pain and expense. Vows are broken, and affairs happen in so many marriages, which brings in STDs, etc.

In fact, many, if not a majority, of married Americans have had covert "open" marriages. They're called affairs. I would say that hurts a lot more than those who agree beforehand to be open about it.

[ssmguy]

She just means that her way of being sexual is to not have sex. I know it sounds silly out of context. Some people prefer oral sex. Others prefer intercourse. Still others prefer both equally. And then there are some who prefer neither -- that's her preference. She just happens not to prefer any of the choices. That's a sexual choice. Get it? Not that I really get it, but I sort of see her logic.

What I mean is she's fine with kisses that don't lead to sex. They don't lead to sex. So she's fine with them. My point is long kisses don't lead to sex, I don't expect them, I don't ask for sex, and no sex results. There is no conflict. Sex is out of the picture, period. No arguments, no difficulties. I don't get sex, but I'm used to it. I wish I got sex, but I don't. As for as the seeming conflict about my state of happiness about it, it's like me claiming to be unhappy about the fact that Megan Fox doesn't fly to my house to have sex with me. Yeah, I guess I'd be happy if she did. But I don't expect it, so I can't really say I'm unhappy. It's a relative term in the context of expectations. I know with certainty that sex is not going to happen with my wife, period. I mean, do you really think I'm stupid enough to think that sex might happen tonight when it hasn't happened in over a decade? I'm not that bad with statistical probability.

[Accuray]

You didn't marry Megan Fox, you married your wife with the very reasonable expectation that your marriage would include sex. By implication, marriage implies that sex will be included unless there is explicit agreement up front that it will not.

You want a marriage that includes sex, you want it quite badly. Your wife doesn't give a cr@p what you want.

You don't have the marriage you want.

Is she the only woman you could ever be married to?

If the average marriage lasts 12 years you've beaten the odds, the sexless part of your marriage is almost as long as the average marriage.

Maybe it's time to make another woman exceptionally happy who will engage with you the way you •need• to be engaged with - sexually

You and W can still be friends!

[ssmguy]

I have the marriage I want, except for the sex. I think friends with benefits and open marriage make a lot of sense in my particular situation. It's not something I would recommend for most people.

I'm not interested in changing property, inheritance, in-laws, step kids, houses, and leaving my current family responsibilities JUST so I can have good sex a few hours a week. That's really silly. And if that person loses her libido, I should switch this all over yet again. That's absurd.

[Ambivalent]

Okay, you say you have the marriage you want, just not the sex. Have you discussed this with her? What if you fall in love with the other person?

What if she says "no" to an open marriage? I'm not understanding why you're even here. If you don't care about having a sexless marriage, and you believe she and you will stay together, and you just get some outside the marriage, you are here why?

Is it to get validation for what you now want? With std's and aides, is it really worth it?

She knows you have needs and desires, you say she loves you, but she doesn't give or try and work on herself out of love.

It would help if you had your age and her age on her signature. You mentioned she was past menopause, and I thought you guys were younger.

I read many posts, and it is easy to forget...

[ssmguy]

I'm here because I have a sexless marriage, the title of this thread. And I'm busting the divorce option.

Validation? No, I decide things on my own. I'm here to see what others have written and get opinions. STD's and HIV? No, with openess, honesty, and protection, your chances are probably better than the high percentage of marriages that have secret affairs.

It's not that she's unwilling to try. She has tried, and even tried therapy. But it has not made it fun for her. It seems the argument is always made that if a woman doesn't want sex, then she necessarily has not tried therapy. In other words, effort and therapy guarantee that a woman will want to have sex. Now, that's kind of absurd, isn't it?

I have discussed this with my wife for so many years that it became annoyingly repetitious. At some point, just more and more talk doesn't solve the problem.

She's in her late 50's, I'm in my early 60's.

What if I fall in love with the other person? Well, if that really happened, maybe I'd divorce and marry her? According to the advice given me here, that's the recommended outcome. But at this point, I don't think that's likely.

[Ambivalent]

I am not into divorcing her and remarrying. That is NOT what this place is for. And yes , it can happen again...loss of libido.

She's not into porn, well neither was I. But I couldn't help what would happen physiologically if I observed some types. I used those feelings and brought them to my husband.

Have you discussed whether or not she has ever successfully masturbated?

Have you ever given her a vibrator? What religion was she raised? If you told us, please forgive my redundancy.

Has she read about her anatomy and physiology? Now if no is the answer to some of the questions (other than religion) then this may be a place to start! I agree, if she has never had an orgasm, and at her age, why should she keep trying. It can be very frustrating.

Where I'm concerned is , she isn't "interested" in the intimacy you need and both may share.

Even if I'm not horny, and my H. is, I would give out of love. Learn to do it well, look him in the eye. Ask him what he wants. This is where I am puzzled.

And as for being open about having sex outside the marriage, no, that doesn't protect you from std's over clandestine sex.

Std's are rampant, ask ANY OBgyn. I was shocked over six years ago, from what I have been told by my office (dr.'s).

Saying something is a waste of time, or some of the things you've told us she's said , seem very selfish. THIS is with what is sending off the red flag meter.

She isn't old, she is in the same age range as I. How long, years, has this been non existent? I believe you said something about after second child. Was this from once a week to once a month, or once a month to once a quarter? What is your need?

I'm trying to understand so I can help, I'm not criticizing. I'm just observing from a distance how some things are not adding up. I have many, many women friends. I also know what they tell me . The less she has, at any age, the less she'll want.

It is not unusual to need hormones, and visual stimulants, written stimulants. She is human, but not dead!