Hello! 20 year marriage teetering... (part V)

[JuneReN]

I am not going to hijack this thread but you brought up some good points here, so I will address it on mine.

Good to hear that everything is going well AS-you are truly an inspiration. Love reading your advice. Your truth is your own, and that is hard come by.

[AnotherStander]

Interesting interactions with W yesterday. First she called me at 4:00 to ask if I could pick S10 up at 4:30. I told her I would leave ASAP but it would be 4:40 before I got there (due to the drive). She was very apologetic, but I told her it was no problem. This is a big 180 for me, before BD I would have griped about her not giving me any notice, and griped about having to rush, etc. Of course the griping never accomplished anything, so why bother? So now I just do it and don't let it affect my PMA.

Later that evening W called again, I suspected it was going to be about the D paperwork which she said she would be getting this week but it wasn't. Turns out she had put a locator on D16's phone and last Saturday D16 was not where she said she was at 1:00 am (she was supposed to be spending the night with a friend, but was in or around a restaurant instead). W called her and asked where she was, and D16 promptly turned off the locator (up to that point D16 didn't know it was on her phone, W didn't tell her). That led to a big argument between W and D16 and based on what W described D16 was very disrespectful towards her. You may recall that I've mentioned I've always been the discipline in the family, W would never follow through and as a result the kids don't respect her in that way. Anyway, W said she's been losing a lot of sleep over it and wanted to discuss it with me. We talked it over and decided we would sit down with D16 together and discuss boundaries. One boundary W set with her was that she has to be home by midnight, but W didn't tell me about this. D16 used to work until closing (midnight), so when she got home later than that I assumed it was because of work. Turns out Sonic changed their closing time to 11:00. I told W that if that was the case then I was in complete agreement that D16 should be home no later than midnight. BUT, since W had not told me, D16 yelled at W about it, told her I didn't make her come home by midnight so it wasn't fair that W did. I told W that I thought it would be good for both of us to talk to her so she'd know we were united on this. I told her we should tell D16 our main concern is security, a young, attractive girl should not be out driving by herself that late, especially when she's been working in a very public place where someone might watch for her and follow her. Also that's peak time for drunk/ tipsy drivers to be out, heck I avoid driving that late myself for that reason. We also talked about the locator and both agreed D16 needs to turn it back on. When W told her to turn it back on (before our convo) D16 got very angry and told her she would rather giver her the phone back. I told W that I think D16 would be OK with it if she understood that it is a security thing, if something were to happen to her that would be the first way to verify if something is wrong. IE, if she's late getting home and the locator shows her 100 miles away then we would know something is wrong and could take action.

There was a lot more to the convo, but the point I was making is that W reached out to me on this and that hasn't happened in a long, long time. And she said felt much better about it after our discussion. After that convo she lingered quite a while making small talk, I finally told her I had to get S10 off to bed and we hung up.

Our last interaction before today was an angry email. Today in person it's like it had never happened.

Email and text are destroying relationships, LOL! People say hurtful things in email or text that they would never say in person or even on the phone.

This lady that you date on and off, strange question but I'm intrigued, do you ever discuss your M with her?
Do you ever talk about the changes you have made in your life because of what has happened?

We have talked about it, but not a lot. Her baggage makes my baggage look like a carry-on, LOL! So I've spent lots of time validating and not a lot talking about my own sitch. Honestly I've been trying to distance from her lately and she just won't leave me alone. I'm getting a taste of what WAS's must think when the LBS is pursuing them, and it's annoying

Good to hear that everything is going well AS-you are truly an inspiration. Love reading your advice. Your truth is your own, and that is hard come by.

Thank you Ruby! I get a lot of inspiration from you too, it's amazing how far you've come and how strong you are now

[AnotherStander]

W and I had the "meeting" with D16 last night. I expressed my thoughts on a "curfew" for her, that I thought it was a good idea so that we have an idea of when to expect her and whether we should be worried or not. After discussing it we settled on 10:30 on weeknights if she doesn't work, midnight if she does work (they close at 11) and 1 am on Friday and Saturday if she works (they close at midnight). D16 expressed concern that she might be doing something like helping a friend with homework that might go beyond 10:30. I told her I understood and that setting a curfew would also be a helpful trigger for her to know when she needs to contact us to let us know where she is, what she is doing and how late she'll be. She agreed that this was all reasonable.

The locator was a real sticking point though. I explained to her that I thought it should be on for security reasons, in case something does happen to her that would be the only way we would know how to find her. I explained that the police will not act on a missing person report for 24 hours, and by then she could have been taken anywhere. She said she understood ME and what I was saying and that she trusted I would only use it as a last resort, but that she was convinced W would use it for constant spying. So I looked at W and said "can you give D16 reassurances that you're not going to be constantly spying on her?" She refused, saying "I'm your mother and I should be able to check on you whenever I want!" D16 said "fine, then you put a locator on your phone so I can check on you too." W just about blew a vein on that one. They were going at each other like this a lot and I ended up being the mediator between them. D16 was willing to meet halfway, but W wouldn't budge. She wanted full mastery over D16 with no concessions. I asked W if she was willing to call D16 first and only use the locator if D16 didn't answer. No. I asked if after using the locator if she could promise to call D16 first instead of calling others first like she did last time. No. Basically she wanted to do whatever the hell she wants, and screw what D16 thinks about it. I kept validating D16, telling her I understood her position and asking W if she could try to understand as well. But she was just dug in! I honestly was looking at her and thinking "I don't even know this person, she is utterly alien to me, this is not who I was married to for 2 decades." The W I knew trusted her family implicitly and was the most flexible person in the world when it came to things like this. This person flat-out says she doesn't trust D16, and why? Because W was out drinking and having sex when SHE was 16, so she ASSUMES D16 is the same way. It was enormously frustrating for D16, because she has really high moral values and it's insulting to her for W to tell her she can't trust her.

Anyway, I finally convinced D16 to turn it back on and told her to try it a couple of weeks and if she feels like W is abusing it we'll talk again.

After W left, D16 and I talked for a good hour. D16 said she doesn't even know who W is. She said since BD (well she doesn't say BD, she says since "this all started") that W and I have become opposites of who we were before. She says she felt like she could tell W anything before, but now she can't talk to her at all, she's like a wall. She said she felt like I just ignored her when she tried to talk to me before and that now she feels like I listen to her, care about what she says and really identify with her. She says she now feels comfortable telling me anything. Then she said some really sweet things, she told me she could tell I've changed a lot and that she really appreciates it and loves me for it and that she wanted me to know that despite how difficult it must be trying to raise them alone now, that she thinks I've risen above that to become a better parent than ever. I thanked her and told her it really touched me to hear that! I did try to tell her that her mom is going through a lot right now and that I too barely recognize who she is, but that we have to give her space to figure that out on her own and just try to accommodate her as best we can. By then it was getting really late and we stopped it there and headed to bed.

There's more to the story, W called me late Thursday night and it turns out was driving all the way to where D16 was baby-sitting to see if she was in fact where she said she was. That's a little stalkerish because it's like a 20 minute drive. And D16 was indeed there. I did NOT tell D16 about this, oh my gosh she would have come unglued.

Also after the incident last Saturday, when W saw D wasn't at her friend's house she didn't even try to call D, she instead called D's friend's mom. So then that lady called her D and was freaking out. Very embarrassing for D16, and THAT was why she didn't want W spying on her.

OK, that was longer than I planned! But what I was working towards is that W is so alien to me, she's not the same person she was even a few months before BD. And now D16 is saying the same thing. Only time will tell if this is permanent, or if she really is just in a fog and will emerge some day more like her old self.

[jp787]

As,

I was reading your story and feeling your anguish over your W responses. I can see you wanted to back her up, yet would not do it blindly. I think you have the respect of your D and that is so good in so many aspects.

I am inspired by how you handled that, I think you walk your talk and I respect you.

Thanks for posting AS.

[JayMan]

Its amazing how much it can mean to her a child say things like that - when most teens are embarrassed of parents! Awesome to you for putting the time and energy into that.

I actually cried when D13 posted a picture on her Instagram for every friend to see, and said, "My Daddy and I are cool".

Maybe I've missed it further back in your situation, but does your W have some deeper emotional or mental health issues?

[littleGTO]

AS- I think you are handling your D's situation very well!

I also think maybe your W's gripping control on your D and her lack of trust stems from her own insecurities and her LACK OF CONTROL over her own life (she may perceive she has this falso sense of control therefore projects it in her R with your D).

It is very difficult to be a mediator between your child and the other parent. Especially when you disagree with your spouse. However, continue to try to put up a united front when you can and I liked how you even tried to give your D some perspective about your W'd behavior and to give her time and space to figure things out.
Lastly, continue to reinforce that despite your W's controlling behavior that your D still needs to respect her wishes..she is the parent (too) and not the child.

All things said, I think you are doing an amazing job in life!!

[planet]

All things said, I think you are doing an amazing job in life!!

Truly inspiring.
I'm lifting both hands and feet together in agreement!!!

[Fartiltre]

AS,

Reading how you handle these situations is inspiring to me as a dad and a man - I understand why your D praises you!

F

[hotwheelsaust]

AnotherStander, I am catching up on a lot of different people and did have to chip in about how you handled your daughters sitch with regards to times etc.
As a dad of two boys now 20 and 18, I kinda acted the same way as you - allow them some peace and identity/individualism and combine in with security for the parents.
You did well on both counts.

[7720]

Wowsers!!! AS my d(12) is not there yet but reading this gives me a role model to be when I get there. I think your W is definitely is a different person-----we are different every day. Not to get too philosophical....Facing death can cause our brains to do all kinds of crazy things...also the chemicals in her treatments might be making things change inside her...W always thinks I will be the gun toting dad when it comes to D(12)..this is a tough culture for women to grow up in...