Turtle Goddess she of the hard shell soft

[mizjjd]

Thank you Snodderly and RL for taking time out of your day to stop by.

Always feels so good to know I'm not alone.

I had wondered after H's tantrum if he would speak to me at bed time. He is a talker by nature - if he's so upset that he won't talk I know things are really bad. It took a while last night but finally he opened with,

"Why is it your goal to antagonize me?"

and on the heels of that, "Why do you insist on turning S20 against me?"

I had been lying in wait for this, repeating validating mantras and occasionally "God don't let me F this up". So I was able to respond with "I'm sorry you feel its my goal to antagonize you. It really isn't, but I understand it looks that way to you."

And the talk was on. And OMG H is so very very depressed. He still blames everything on me but fortunately I am now able to sidestep that and see the agony he is in. Maybe that doesn't sound like an improvement, it certainly wasn't pleasant. But it was educating. And discouraging too, because it goes against H's nature to get help for this. As in, pharmaceutical help. He is sometimes open to the idea of talk therapy, but has never pursued that very far.

How sad. He is so not the man I married - or is he? Did the Limerence of our beginning camouflage his illness? Questions I may never get the answers to.

This morning he was still not friendly, but then sent me a text telling me where milk is on sale... lol.

I'm determined to not let my own life boat sink, but hearing H say that whenever he prays all he hears is a voice telling him to "end it all" ....

Have to run for now, take care

[Portia]

Hey Jaye

Do you think the more detached we become, our observations seem more clear? At the beginning all I could see I saw through the haze of my pain and disbelief. But now I can see the elements of depression in all this.

How are you doing? You did wonderfully with H but how is wonderful job? I hope you are able to take some time for you.

Lots of love!!

[mizjjd]

Hey Jaye

Do you think the more detached we become, our observations seem more clear? At the beginning all I could see I saw through the haze of my pain and disbelief. But now I can see the elements of depression in all this.

How are you doing? You did wonderfully with H but how is wonderful job? I hope you are able to take some time for you.

Lots of love!!

Hi Portia!

I agree with you about the observation observation

I believe depression plays a huge part in my H's life. I'm just left wondering what, if any, role that plays in my own determinations. I don't feel depression gives H a pass on his behaviors, but I don't know what my role as wife, as "life partner" requires here. I believe I am required to take care of myself, and of H. But you know what, allowing H's behaviors to continue unchecked takes care of neither of us. Heaven knows we (humankind we) resist change and only do so when forced. If H never faces the consequences of his actions he has no reason to change.

But this is probably going to get worse before it gets better.

I am doing "ok" for the most part. Crazy busy, no "me" time in any great quantity but I am starting to carve out some minutes and learning to say "no".

Thanks so much for stopping by Portia! I hope you are doing well, am heading to your thread now to find out.

~Peace~

Jaye

[complicated]

Hi J

I have been away for a while but still kept up with threads. I see your H is still crazy! Mine too though for a while I thought he was peeking out but he ran back.

Yours too. And yes, depression is such a huge part of it. Funny thing is there are times when H seems pretty normal. Guess when that is? When we are all together.

I had to laugh when you reported your H getting mad but you couldn't figure out why. Was it because his team lost? Certainly it was your S fault. I still can't figure out why they feel they have to blame everyone else.

It still baffles me how they don't see how crazy this is all so crazy.

Please carve out more "me" time for yourself. I am also finding in order to take care of the kids reeling from H I have spent less time for me and it is taking it's toll a little. My h is mad at the girls because they are mad at him for not dumping OW when he said he was. Imagine that! The nerve of them to expect their dad to give up OW!! They want him to face his consequences of OW. They can be so adult sometimes! Ha Ha

Just like your H. Yes J he does need to face his consequences. I feel we all do. Otherwise do we ever learn from our mistakes?

We had to make changes when our mlcers went crazy. We realized we contributed to our problems. They need to face their issues now too.

Take care of yourself J. I like it when everyone updates because so much of it I can use in my sitch. Everyone's situation is so different but yet the same.

[Portia]

Hey MizJ,

Glad to see you!

I'm just left wondering what, if any, role that plays in my own determinations. I don't feel depression gives H a pass on his behaviors, but I don't know what my role as wife, as "life partner" requires here. I believe I am required to take care of myself, and of H. But you know what, allowing H's behaviors to continue unchecked takes care of neither of us. Heaven knows we (humankind we) resist change and only do so when forced. If H never faces the consequences of his actions he has no reason to change.

I am left wondering this as well. I can understand that depression plays a role and in that way, I can more easily forgive the "little things", the small thoughtless things. But I struggle with what feels to me, like giving him a pass when sometimes I want to sit in front of me and let me yell at him until I can't yell anymore. Like I would want to with anyone who had hurt me.

The interesting bit is that after I finish yelling, I am not at all sure what would happen then. I do not believe we should allow ourselves to be abused and that includes when we get to the end of our ropes. If he is refusing to change after serious discussions with you (like the warning we never had), there are consequences. They risk losing us.

Jaye, I find myself quite reflective these days, now that the drama of the rollercoaster is on a plateau. It shouldn't be hard to know what I want, but I am finding it is.

As long as you are still "thinking" and deciding what is best for you, it seems that you are in control of the timing. Control, that I like!

[RosaLinda]

"I believe depression plays a huge part in my H's life. I'm just left wondering what, if any, role that plays in my own determinations. I don't feel depression gives H a pass on his behaviors, but I don't know what my role as wife, as "life partner" requires here. I believe I am required to take care of myself, and of H. But you know what, allowing H's behaviors to continue unchecked takes care of neither of us. Heaven knows we (humankind we) resist change and only do so when forced. If H never faces the consequences of his actions he has no reason to change.

But this is probably going to get worse before it gets better."

Hi Jaye! Catching up! I agree with you that depression probably plays a large part in your H's MLC, in all MLCers, probably. And that depression does not give H a free pass to act like a jack a$$. But just maybe MLC does. I think it is caused by depression, but truly seems to make them temporarily crazy. So I am trying to find the ability to give my H a "pass" in my heart. I don't think in my situation that it is time for me to start making him "face the consequences of his actions" yet. But that is such a personal decision, we all just take it for as long as we can, and then maybe take a breather, and go back to stand some more. That is how I see you Jaye, strong and standing at least for now!

I hope to God you're wrong about it getting worse before it gets better though. It can only get worse for so long. I am all in favor of things starting to turn around for us Jaye! I'm glad you're doing okay, and learning to say no and take some time and fun for yourself. How are you enjoying your new job? Has it helped your financial position?

[mizjjd]

Hello all!

Thank you for stopping by.

I'm in a bit of a rush and so cannot respond individually right now but please know I appreciate the visits.

I want to journal/record some texts from H while they're still fresh. H is up at his parents right now, and as usual, this provokes his thinking and his communicating. The latter I think because texting is safer/easier for him than on-site face-to-face.

So, late Sunday night I received.

When I'm alone I think too much. I always realize how much of a mess I'm in. The hole is dark and deep and I think it gets deeper all the time.

And that ladies and gents was the end of the communication. Just a lovely bedtime story....

But Monday morning H was responsive and text/chatted about mundane things throughout the day. Then just as I was drifting off to sleep.

Conversation came up with my dad where I had a opportunity to say he left me.

He said if he didn't they would not have had the life ($) they had.

All water under the bridge he (H's dad) said.

You know not a day goes by that I don't lament about our failed business or other events in my life.

Everything in my memory has become a regret.

I'm on a slippery slope. I'm happy alone here because I'm doing no harm to anyone and I can be useful.

I am kind of settled here. Not restless. No worries, no financial problems.



Thank you DB. I did not freak out over any of the above. I listened and responded with validation.

And now I have to run.

Take care all.

~ Jaye

[job]

Thank you for sharing his text messages and it goes to prove that when they are alone or late at night, they do think about things quite a bit. When it's during the day and evening, they have things to keep their focus elsewhere. Your h's depression is going to start to get deeper, but that's following the MLC trail.

OMG, what kind of father would tell his son that if he hadn't left him they wouldn't have had the lifestyle they had? That's awful! The poor man feels like a failure and an unwanted child no wonder he's so confused about life. To him, being alone will ensure that he causes no one harm or have expectations of him. BTW, I give the man credit for raising the issue w/his father. It has been bothering him for quite some time.

You did a great job w/validation. I'm sure you were surprised to receive these texts. I'm sure that there will be more texts to come.

[nero]

hey j -

glad to hear you're hanging in there- sure sounds like your H is immersed in "himland". it's wierd isn't that they are the guys with alllllllllllllllllllll the issues and traumatations they are spreading around (on us) and we're the guys "paying" and they get to be all needy & disabled. (me in merci-less mode) idk- how all that works, i'm with you that we should be able to just sit them there and yell til our heads fall off.

only problem is - much like mwd says in the book- their faces would merely glaze over and they would "tune it out" and it would all be "for naught". early on- i could see h's face and it was true. now (two years down the line) we occasionally have a mini-conversation that does not turn out confrontational and awful- . not necessarily productive, but not a "fight" either. (and i'm talking "mini" - like a few lines from me about what i'm feeling or thinking.

it's pretty sad, all things being considered - but i guess the way it is.

anyway- good luck and carry on. sounds like you're still surviving and hanging on.

xxo

[mizjjd]

OMG, what kind of father would tell his son that if he hadn't left him they wouldn't have had the lifestyle they had? That's awful!

I am right there with you on this Snodderly. When H texted me this bit I was swearing a blue streak.

H says, "Why? It's okay. I'm not upset."

I tried to rein it in because I didn't want H to start defending his Dad but I was/am outraged. I only have 30 more minutes on lunch break or I'd go into full detail of what I think of his parents. Gotta vent that somewhere lol!

Your h's depression is going to start to get deeper, but that's following the MLC trail.

I was wondering if that stage was beginning to show its head. There has been a shift in H of late. His venom toward me seems just a touch weaker. Like he'd still like to be nasty but can't quite muster up the strength.

And he has started eating more. I asked him yesterday what his agenda was during this visit home and he responded with each day's menu. That's it. His agenda is eating.

Nero,

we're the guys "paying" and they get to be all needy & disabled.

Do I ever hear you on that! H insulted me via text the other day and the new-improved-not-gonna-be-passive-aggressive Jaye called him, politely, on it. His response? "You're too sensitive, just deal with it." (Jaye mimes throwing phone at wall, repeatedly.)

Complicated,

It still baffles me how they don't see how crazy this is all so crazy

I know. The insanity of the whole thing. The upside downness. H clinging to his parents because I have hurt him. And the "worth" of the OW.. just preposterous.

But they can't see any of it because they're inside of it.

It bothers me a bit to realize I do best with H when I sort of pretend he's a case study, a psychiatric patient. But believing he's lost his reason is a huge part of how I can stand.

Portia,

Jaye, I find myself quite reflective these days, now that the drama of the rollercoaster is on a plateau. It shouldn't be hard to know what I want, but I am finding it is.

Lots of layers in this onion, aren't there? The only thing I know I want is OFF the roller coaster. Beyond that? I really don't know.

RL,

I hope to God you're wrong about it getting worse before it gets better though. It can only get worse for so long.

I don't think I am wrong. But that's the only way through, so I'm trying to welcome the worse.

Thanks all for stopping by.

Lunch is almost over! TTYL

~ Jaye