Well, I can't disagree with any of that. We've been to therapy a number of times some years ago. It helped the relationship overall in many other ways. But the tough one has been convincing her to want to want. She feels guilty about it, which, as she puts it, is not a turn on. Besides, why can't a guy just take care of himself in the bathroom with a centerfold magazine or a good video on his laptop?
And how many men really want to have sex with a woman who does it as a chore? Well, I've heard some suggest that it's different if she does it lovingly as a chore. Maybe. It's hard for me to picture.
I guess you could say I'm going through a period in my life where I'm stubbornly refusing to go along with the conventional wisdom that one's sexual relationship absolutely has to align with one's IRS filing status.
So let's see if I got this right. If your wife's libido drops because of menopause, then it's time to switch your property, IRS status, step kids, in-laws, etc. And if the new wife has a drop in libido, switch all those things once again, even though they have NOTHING to do with sex. And the chances of that are high. First marriages last only to about the 12th year (median). Second marriages don't even last that long.
Well, I can't disagree with any of that. We've been to therapy a number of times some years ago. It helped the relationship overall in many other ways. But the tough one has been convincing her to want to want. She feels guilty about it, which, as she puts it, is not a turn on. Besides, why can't a guy just take care of himself in the bathroom with a centerfold magazine or a good video on his laptop?
And how many men really want to have sex with a woman who does it as a chore? Well, I've heard some suggest that it's different if she does it lovingly as a chore. Maybe. It's hard for me to picture.
I had theorized that even an LD that thinks they don't "WANT" it, would be well served to have sexual thoughts and use of their sexual organs at some regular and normal interval.
But you need to stop beating your head against the wall if this is where you are stuck, going in loops to find the magical combination over the years.
Well, I can't disagree with any of that. We've been to therapy a number of times some years ago. It helped the relationship overall in many other ways. But the tough one has been convincing her to want to want. She feels guilty about it, which, as she puts it, is not a turn on. Besides, why can't a guy just take care of himself in the bathroom with a centerfold magazine or a good video on his laptop?
I'm sure any point contrary to this logical observation of hers has no place in reality.
Originally Posted By: ssmguy
And how many men really want to have sex with a woman who does it as a chore?
Some of the SSM people won't mind having sex with their spouse performed as a chore or duty, as long as they knew they wanted to perform the chore or duty. People who have been SSM long enough, might not even care as much that they don't like it, but the fact they are doing it for them will be enough. We over think these things.
Originally Posted By: ssmguy
Well, I've heard some suggest that it's different if she does it lovingly as a chore. Maybe. It's hard for me to picture.
If someone knows that it's not their favorite thing to do, but they like to make you happy even though they don't understand why this should make you so happy it's possible.
And how many men really want to have sex with a woman who does it as a chore? Well, I've heard some suggest that it's different if she does it lovingly as a chore. Maybe. It's hard for me to picture.
Here's my experience, I got W to read MWD's SSM book. She understood the message. We talked about that and other issues, and she agreed to increase frequency as proposed by MWD. At the beginning, she was doing it as a chore. You are correct, that is not ideal, or even satisfying, however, it's a starting point, and chore sex is better than no sex IMO. If you disagree, you can always go back to "no sex" but at least in that case it's your choice.
Over time, she came to enjoy it versus just provide it, because we were working out other relationship issues at the same time. So chore sex "for now" or "to start" does not lead to "chore sex forever" necessarily. On any path there has to be a first step, and the first step is usually not the ideal. My sex life is still not what I would like, but at least I see progress and things moving in a positive direction, that makes a big difference to your overall satisfaction with your marriage and with life.
Originally Posted By: ssmguy
I guess you could say I'm going through a period in my life where I'm stubbornly refusing to go along with the conventional wisdom that one's sexual relationship absolutely has to align with one's IRS filing status.
This feels to me to be a position of desperation. You're here because you feel you have no where else to go within your marriage.
That's different from someone who wanted an open marriage to start with and came into it with the expectation that life would be that way. I feel you've been pushed into this position and are now doing your best to rationalize and excuse your wife putting you here.
Originally Posted By: ssmguy
So let's see if I got this right. If your wife's libido drops because of menopause, then it's time to switch your property, IRS status, step kids, in-laws, etc. And if the new wife has a drop in libido, switch all those things once again, even though they have NOTHING to do with sex. And the chances of that are high. First marriages last only to about the 12th year (median). Second marriages don't even last that long.
Not sure what your point is here but it looks like you're taking the opposing position, exaggerating it until it's ridiculous, then using that extreme position to tear it apart -- a common strategy in argument but not a very productive one.
We're not talking about a drop in libido. We're talking about a woman who is refusing to have sex with her husband. Simply refusing, with no possible path to improving that situation.
If you told your W you were tired of talking to her and would not talk to her anymore ever, but would be happy to co-exist in the same house and go to the same places, but without any conversation, would you expect her to accept that?
If she then got increasingly upset about your lack of communication and pestered and badgered you, would you develop "communication aversion" and use that as a reason to further solidify your position?
If you did that, what would you expect her to do?
Do you feel that your position would be reasonable? You do have every right to choose who you talk to and who you don't, and if you're not a talkative person by nature, that's okay right?
My point is this ssmguy, I understand your pain. I understand your love for your wife, and I understand your deep seated desire to make this marriage work. When I read what you write, I see a man who has been pushed beyond the breaking point.
I fear that you have accepted an unacceptable position, and are grasping for straws to convince yourself to be okay with it.
If you can do that, power to you! I suspect, however, that you cannot, and that your sexless situation is torturing you, and I hate to see you or anyone else in pain for this reason.
It comes down to meeting needs. I'm assuming that you are meeting your W's needs, that's you've done the work on yourself to be able to provide what she needs. You haven't commented that she is unhappy or unsatisfied, so I have to assume that you are a "good husband" which is quite remarkable given your level of frustration, that takes incredible discipline, I admire that.
Your W, however, is NOT meeting your needs, and I believe it is within her power to do so, all she has to do is choose that path. That does not mean coming home tonight and jumping into bed with you, it means acknowledging that she understands the pain she is putting you through, and working with you to address it such that you see a path to improvement, a path to having your needs acknowledged, respected, and eventually met.
I would like to see you discuss this with her and challenge her to step up to work with you on your marriage, that expecting you to amuse yourself with a good video on a laptop is not even in the same area code as an acceptable state of affairs. If she refuses, I'd like you to see that for what it is, a cold and callous choice and decision on her part, that you should not accept.
To your point, that has NOTHING to do with sex, it's about balance in your marriage, and mutual respect. Acknowledging that your needs are as real and as important as her own, and are deserving of equal consideration.
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
But regardless of what, you that's your decision to live like that. That's fine and no one has a right to tell you it's wrong.
HOWEVER, saying that M is just a financial status or whatever IS exaggerating. It is a real shame that you don't know what a real fulfilling relationship is that hits on all points - emotional, intellectual, spiritual and sexual. And a shame that your W won't either. Personally I feel that you've only got one shot in this world and so you might as well make it count.
Hopefully your W can grow as you have.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
OOOOOkay, I've been reading this for awhile and I'm going to chime in for what it's worth.
I am/was LD. I am aware of what caused it , more than one issue. One was how I felt in the relationship, two was I couldn't climax with husband, and three I had to open myself up and be responsible for my climax AND getting "prepared" to feel desire.
This IS a lot with which to deal...I have made and am currently making a conscious effort to do this. WHY?
Because I vowed to keep myself only unto him, and I expect the same. It would not be loving, fair, or respectful to not work on myself.
Was/is this easy? NOOOOOO...It can be embarrassing, and very uncomfortable, but THAT is NO excuse. I LOVE my husband, and he deserves better. From me, from marriage and from life.
You are more than welcome to share this with your wife. I'm 53 and have been though many awakenings and epiphany's about this.
If this was okay for you SSMguy, then it is a whole different matter. Yeah aversion was there for me, due to pressure and then perceived pressure. It is a real libido killer. So is lack of time with your spouse. The type of time where all we do is cuddle, look each other in the eyes and relate. Bad breath, and oral hygiene are a real deal breaker and it is very hard to say that to a spouse, when you know it will hurt or offend them.
So again, if you are struggling due to lack of sexual intimacy, a last resort may just be the thing to jolt her out of her comfort zone. It jolted me and to be honest, I'm kind of glad it did.
I've learned a lot about myself physically, and am dying to try some things with my husband. Heh heh heh >;}
Formerly Workinprogress H :55 M :over 29 yrs. Together : 33 D : college D : adult BD and left : May 2013 Separated Experimenting/Replay
