I know it may be controlling, but I know there's going to come a day when I am going to flat out tell my W she needs to do this ^^^^ if she wants any change. That she is the only one that can make herself happy etc
You're talking about making an ultimatum. That is generally your last resort, and usually not effective until you follow through on the consequence, implied or stated.
We all have a breaking point, where it is no longer worth it to continue to stand for a marriage that has little to no hope of improving. When you get there, providing an ultimatum is, in my opinion, a loving thing to do as you are giving the person a last chance to step up before you leave. It is their decision to respond or not, you are not making the decision for them.
If you feel this is on your horizon, it's time to start planning now. Who will move out? How will you afford it? How will you co-parent? The more you work on figuring this out in advance, the stronger your position will be if things do come to that point.
I hope for your sake it doesn't come to that, but you might want to read the book on "Controlled Separation" -- that book gives a prescription for separating, with a set of rules, with an eye on reconciling after a break. The separation and distance may be what your W needs to get the fuel to recommit. I see you in danger of being in limbo for a long time on your current course.
WRT IC, I agree with HopefulStill. Many IC's see it as their goal to help the person "feel better". If you are perceived to be the source of their bad feelings, the IC will encourage them to leave and help them move beyond it. My W's IC gave her the script for how to tell your H your M is over.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
BC, I've said this before, but there are a lot of similarities here to my experience. It's frustrating, because you know there is a path back to a good M, but your wife is being passive and not acting. It's a stressful existence, to put it mildly.
It certainly is.
Originally Posted By: HopefulStill
What I was fighting, and I think you are too, was continued interaction with the OM. It keeps them holding on to the fantasy of the affair, and it guarantees that her mind won't be focused on a relationship with you. It seems there are times when she is more involved with talking to him than at other times. Perhaps this is one of those times?
This theory would make sense, but everything points to the contrary. OMW even found out 4 months ago (a year later) so OM is also under the microscope.
Again, who knows these days, I could be wrong.
Originally Posted By: HopefulStill
My view on IC for your wife- I'd avoid it. I agree with MWD and others that it can make things worse for your M. Many ICs will unwittingly push your wife towards "chasing her own dream" and possibly leaving you for the OM. Not many seem really committed to saving marriages (many are divorced themselves!). You can fix this on your own.
Very good point. I won't pursue that and I'll try to deter her if it comes up again.
Originally Posted By: HopefulStill
You know my story, for us it came down to a choice point- until then she was "fogged out"
Did that choice point come organically or did you do something specifically to help her get there?
Originally Posted By: HopefulStill
When my wife had returned to our M, and our relationship had improved significantly, my wife said something to me that is apropos to you situation.
She said "Thank you for not giving up on me. Thank you for fighting for me....for us. You saved me."
This ^^^ is what drives me.
I try to keep my eye on the horizon.
M-38 W-32 D7, S4 M-10 BD-May '12 S for 1 month-June '12 Reconcile, Piecing
You're talking about making an ultimatum. That is generally your last resort, and usually not effective until you follow through on the consequence, implied or stated.
I disagree its an ultimatum. It would be me trying to push her in the right direction. I understand when people here tell me that would be controlling. It would be. But I would try to give her that push before I reached my breaking point.
When is my breaking point? I have no idea.
Originally Posted By: Accuray
The separation and distance may be what your W needs to get the fuel to recommit. I see you in danger of being in limbo for a long time on your current course.
You could very well be right.
For now I'm taking the route HopefulStill took. Remain loving and patient. That could change, and I may look back with regret, but for now I have to pick a path.
M-38 W-32 D7, S4 M-10 BD-May '12 S for 1 month-June '12 Reconcile, Piecing
My husband suggested IC to me many times and he also suggested that I needed to look within but it all fell on deaf ears. I felt that I had done everything I could to fix our M and he wasn't interested so I wasn't the one with the issues. There wasn't anything he could have said to make me look within.
When he was truly done, after years of us together/not together, together/not together is when I finally realized that I had some growing to do. The point is, your W needs to get to that place on her own.
Also, I do not believe in ultimatums. An ultimatums says "if you don't do this, I am doing this". Standing up for yourself says "W, I love you, however I believe I have done all I can to repair our M and I have decided I can no longer live this way. Therefore, I am xxxxxx". At that point, W knows where you stand and she is free to make her own choice, the one she really wants. For me, that was realizing I really wanted my H and not OM.
M 46 H 44 D 12 S 8 M 9 T 11 BD 2/15/13 "Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13 Agree we are 'healing' 7/13 Definitely Piecing 9/13
I lived in limbo land like you are for quite some time. Looking back, I would have played it differently; but it worked out, so no regrets.
In my case, my wife was pulling away more and more towards the end of her A. It was like she was trying to create friction, reasons to leave. I never allowed her to suck me into conflict, I just maintained my boundaries. She was also discussing how to bring up divorce with me and the kids with our MC (she was seeing individually as well). According to our MC, she was bent on leaving.
At the same time, I had grown weary of my life as it was. I was finally ready to move on if I had too. I had felt beaten down after so much time in limbo, struggling to keep my M, I was just exhausted with it. When the conversation finally came, I think my wife saw that I was prepared to separate as well, and I was surprisingly calm. She had hit bottom, and I had hit bottom. There was nowhere else to go. I think the reality of that is what shook her awake. At the same time, I let the OM's wife know everything (until that week I had not), and told her that I was going to have a conversation with my wife. In my case, this was the final piece in keeping him out of my wife's ear.
I think that time is on your side here. You have not lived this as long as I did, and the last contact with your wife's OM (as far as you can be sure) was only a few months ago. I would suggest dropping the R talks and try to live as if all were fine. Pull back all pressure and see where that takes you. She may notice a shift and come towards you a bit more. If things become more distant, a change in approach may be required. I think my W saw me as blocking her happiness with someone else. As soon as I stepped out of the way and she saw her future, SHE decided what was best for her, not me.
Yep, still here. I appreciate you checking in on me
Things seem to be going well.
W went away for a week at the beginning of the month. Throughout that week we communicated by text. She said some things I hadn't heard in a while. She "missed me", was calling me "babe", I got a couple unprompted "I love you's". She was very appreciate of the fact that she could leave for a week and I didn't have to contact her once to ask questions about D8 and S5.
She was different when she got back. She seemed to genuinely miss me and was quite affectionate. She told her BF (who told me) that she had a new appreciation for me.
She initiated S the second night back (it had been a couple months since we had full blown intercourse).
She bragged to her friends that I can be alone all week, with kids, and still not contact her once to ask questions about "what to do" etc, and how well I always take care of the house, clean and fix things etc. These same friends complain that they cant leave for 5 minutes without their husbands calling them, they rarely clean and can't fix anything, and how lucky she is to have me etc
Her actions are certainly a far cry from some of the things she told me a couple months ago (didn't think she was afraid to lose me, didnt feel like working on M etc)
I've said this in the past, but if you could be a fly on the wall in our house the last couple months you'd think we have a perfectly good marriage for the most part.
We haven't had a R discussion, so I just have to go by her actions at the moment. Have her feelings changed since R talk 2 months? Who knows.
She has her hysterectomy booked for 6 weeks from now. In the meantime we discussed hormones and the symptoms of an imbalance. She read me all the symptoms and said she fit them to a "T", although she did leave out "low libido", which I wonder about. I asked her about that long time ago and she said she thought it was fine. (In the past she would pleasure herself during S, but she hasn't been interested in that in a while...but we haven't had S often so who knows)
I'm 100% confident I am a better version of the person she was "into" not long ago. Emotionally and physically. I'm doing very well financially, become more of a leader in our relationship etc. I've 180'd every concern she had at BD (year and half ago) and then some.
Still keeping my eye on the horizon.
Our communication most certainly needs improvement. I have a hard time explaining the nuances, but I'll post soon with my best attempt at explaining it.
M-38 W-32 D7, S4 M-10 BD-May '12 S for 1 month-June '12 Reconcile, Piecing
BC, After my W agreed to stay in the M, it was still a process for her to become genuinely happy. From what I've read, and what I observed, your wife feels the connection in waves. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not. But like the arriving tide, soon the water is over the beach and all is well in her heart. In my M it took a good 6 months for my W to feel "in love" (not infatuated- that's for new relationships) with me all the time. 8-10 months in and she was sugary sweet constantly .
Keep meeting her needs, as you clearly are, it's working! Look for creative ways to meet her needs as well. Women love to brag about their husbands if they're doing a great job. My wife loves to share with her friends and coworkers whatever romantic thing I have done for her lately. Mix it up!
