NERO STILL FLOATING DOWNSTREAM

[uRworthy]

My friend, I want you to know I've heard - "you care too much." And I thought, what the heck does that mean? How can one care too much. And then I decided, I care as much as I care. If they dont like it, their problem, not mine.

But it took me a long time to get there. Because as much as we dont want to admit it, what our mother says, and our h's say, affects us. They are probably two of the most important relationships in life.

Then I learned that what they feel about me doesnt make it so because they have those positions in my life. And they were wrong - plain and simple.

And I think that you are right. They dont like that you didnt whither up from their behaviour. And good for you that you didnt.

Nero, I am so happy you are trying to see you through others' eyes. Different mirrors. Clearer waters.

I know what we see. And we are not wrong. It is so very clear, really and truly. You are an amazing soul, with such depth and clarity and heart. You see right through to the crux of the matter.

I am so very happy to get to know you. And happier still to see you take this journey.

[nero]

hey hi-

yeah - i know. the thing of feeling crushed (initialy) when people who are really the most important people in your life - decide to let you know it's not mutual. i still scrtch my head about the whole "you care too much" junk.

i think what it means to them is something like - "" i'm a shallow jackass who (at this moment) is bored or feeling like life is passing me by or too hard - so i'm going to lash out a bit here and make you miserable - just to make sure i have alot of power over someone- even a lacky like you- just because it makes me feel big and powerful and in control - of something (if even only my faithful minion) uh hem - that would be you. you know- see how far i can push and how much you'll suck up...."""

if i had to guess

why- do not know- self gratification of some sort.

it is wierd - i'm still glad (overall) that as a kid & even adult mostly- i did not know or even think about the whole "where you stand in your mother's affections" thing". i pretty much assumed both my parents loved us all- and i'm tryin to stick with it til i croak. i mean, what possible good could it do now to re-inspect allllllll that.

i always have to say- thank God i had my sister Linda as my "irish twin" for my entire life (well, til she died five years ago). My youth was fun, even when it wasn't, because i had this constant companion & sidekick.

i wonder now, if part of my assumption that i'm a happier person in general when i have someone to share my life with, is simply an extention of that. The whole being a part of a big family & part of a "couple" with her or h??.

Just something in life i value like mad and miss now that she's gone. I sure wish i could have "saved" her - i'm not sure that i really could have - the whole addiction thing is sure a tough one to fight off. particularly someone elses addiction. I'd say in retrospect, when it is an important person to you- there will ALWAYS be a little part of you that "goes there" and wonders how much better you could have done, or of course, there is always more one could have done or do.

i know it's fruitless - just part of being human i guess. assuming a bit of responsibility.

This mlc thing- i find myself millions of times thinking about my "part" in it all- allllll the things i could have done better. THEN i get to the bit of - HONEST - I ALWAYS accepted him for what and who he was. No criticism and no demands to be something else- or change - or not do exactly what he wanted to do. wierdly enough- i now think sometimes i SHOULD HAVE been a bigger B!tch. if i were - i'm sure now i'd be thinking i shouldn't have been.

there's just no good answer to be had is there, really?....

it's that darn "is what it is" thing. i hate that- accepting fate and life's changes with a philosophical & neutral mind.

still working on that- neutral mind. more there than i used to be- not quite total buddha girl yet.

oh well- happily or sadly- i find myself going a whole day sometime and not even thinking about h.

i wonder what the heck he thinks he is supposed to be to me - and in my life. (and of course, why in the world he even is still in my life?) FOR a man who makes his living with his tongue (lawyer) he sure has nothing to ever say aoubt his feelings or emotions - if there are any there). that's ever - even back when he was mad nuts in love with me- inarticulate.

gee - ya think i picked "my mom?" or ya think i missed a HUGE flashing warning signal "EMOTIONAL DAMAGE" !! "EMOTIONAL DAMAGE!!! " (run like the wind little feather)...

when i think about living like this forever - it's not very tasty idea. HOWEVER, IT'S waaaay better than alot of people - i try and remind myself always. you know- list the good.

i guess since i met this guy when i'd just gotten married to ex-h who turned out to have some violence issues- i can always meet a new life=mate while i'm here doing this life - rite???

within my own comfort zone - i think i am living the life i'd be living in any context, with or without some other person rite now. i am not a party animal - or EVER a real "on the move" kinda person. i'm homey and craftie & artie and like people and have friends - garden, etc.

i keep wondering what exactly more i "should be" doing to gal- and i keep coming up dry. if im living as i would when times are good or bad- what more is there that i should be shooting for?

i am feeling very grateful to be able to feel some pleasure doing things i used to like doing. i would like to never ever feel that misery again in life. ever. ever. ?

I LIKED YOUR bit of info about lottery winners. i think it's true - the more people are lured away from their comfort zone by money & all kinds of exotic wonderfulness - the more they just forget who they are and what makes them happy i think. i have to say these chillie fall mornings - putzing in the garden one tiny bit before or after working - even working (gasp - who would ever think i'd say it) gives me a good contrast and makes me happier to be home when i am. renewed interest - just becasue I have to go be somewhere else.

isn't it sad that even tho i realize it fully- it's still true (of us all)? taking the good things for granted is the true crime in life. how screwed up are humans that they need the bad junk to make them appreciate the good junk?

also honestly - still, after all is said and done - i'd have to say that merely the fact that i am or was "always available" is my biggest crime. not making h "work" hard enough to have me? no challenge? .

do we all really need to always make someone work for love? ya have to wonder. my mother- she's a master of it. i'd say inside she probably loves us all- i think - but wonder sometimes also.

. as far as being able to say it or act it or make anyone feel it- not happenin. people in general love her- her kids - she always managed to always have everyone feeling like crappola stacked up against the other guys- i mean, is it a talent or an inadvertent character flaw or a life's persuit? jacking everyone around for your own amusement?

i used to think it was accidental. last bunch of years - - she's said things that honestly make me think she likes the bickering & comparing & CONTROL & POWER. gOD, I guess i'd rather live a crappola life alone than have to be a person who makes everyone around me , that cares about me, feel less good than someone else. what an m.o.

eeeeeek- h also for that matter. if the best he can do to express his unhappiness with his life or sitch - is to blame and criticize a good old standby goofis like me- well, how very sad for him.

wonder really if the day will come when i walk out of his life and what his face will look like when i say i hope his choice to replace me in his life/heart will always makes him happy. so long sucker.

he doesn't even see it like that. he doesn't even think about it at all or see it at all - as anything i think.

he's like an animal just bashing thru life, doing what he feels like that moment- regardless of the animals around him or what he says or does to them (alot like my mom) never ever ever seeing the other guys point of view- or feelings, etc.

how in the world do people like that go thru life and be soooo likeable to sooo many people - and so superficial too?

i still cannot tell if i've always given those guys too much credit as essentially decent and good people - or if they are really - or if i'm nuts or overly romantic - or i have too many expectations or what in the world is going on.

i alwasy thought it was all about -you like or love someone- you do. they like or love you- we all treat each other as we'd like to be treated. that is all.

do onto others kind of thing- this blame & criticize & pick & so on- wtf???

okay- no extra charge and sorry for long rant- just moseying thru here- with my coffee- i need to get dressed & varnish the teeny tiny kitchen floor one more time- and shower- etc before need to get to work for 9:30 (short wierd day- but i'll take it of course)

xxo - life is sure jacked up - isn't it? it's being able to have a comparison that makes it bad sometimes isn't it? being able to remember how good it was - how it felt when it was really great - i'd say it makes anyone yearn for THAT again. human nature? (hey- saying that- is that what our jacked up and simplistic h's felt when they went awol? just thinking "the excitement" was worth chucking allllllll they had in us for "that" again? foolish men- well, my h - foolish man.

oh well huh???? i hate it when i have a moment of clarity- would i have chucked EVERYTHING if some guy was making himself soooooo easy & available i jumped in (or on? ) ...

i don't think so- i loved all the things that replaced it but were less exciting. oh well-

[albamarie]

Wow Nero, I got nothing. You said it all. You are definitely working out some things and are getting closer to yourself again.

I look forward to chatting, I hope the weather is perfect fall weather allowing us to take a long walk. I plan on packing t-shirts, yoga pants and some good gym shoes, and arriving with my hair up, with no frills. I hope we can just let loose, well maybe not to loose, we don't want to stir up any trouble, ha!

[uRworthy]

Hey Nero. I think you are right about those people who lash out at others in their life. I think it is a combination of things. Low self esteem, their childhood and what they learned, control. And it used to be important for me to really understand why my mother and h were like that. It isnt anymore. And not so much because it is what it is. Although there is that. But also because knowing doesnt change it. Knowing doesnt take away what they've said and done. I feel sorry for them, really. It is sad to me. But, I dont really care about the why of it anymore.

I know who I am. I know the sort of person I am. What I stand for.I know it without a single doubt. And I am happy with me. I know I am loyal and kind. I try to show the people I care about that I do.

I knew my mother loved me as best she could. As much as she was capable of. Husband, too. And I think they did the best they could. My childhood was horrific, but, it made me who I am today. And for that I am grateful.

I think that maybe you are right about your assumption. That you're a happier person in general when you have someone to share my life with and that is an extention of your relationship with your sister. I think that all of us, or most at least, can say that we may feel happier as a part of something. And it doesnt mean we cant be happy not part of a couple, too. Because the crux of all that is, that we need to be happy from within. The other stuff enhances our life, but, it shouldnt define it. It shouldnt determine it. And it certainly doesnt mean you cant have it again one day.

I am so sorry about what happened with your sister. I know you must miss her so much. I hope that deep down you know you could not save her. The only one who could was her. But I do understand that from time to time you wonder if one action or word might have made a difference. The truth is, that things happen as they should. Even bad things.

As far as our marriages, I feel as you do. I always had his back. I accepted him for who he was. I was loyal and loving. I supported him fully in whatever he chose to do. Could have I had done some things differently? Yes. But I always try to remember I did the best I could with the knowledge and tools I had at the time.

And when I do, I realize that he is broken. He is. I know it without a doubt. The reason he is unhappy isnt because of anything i've done or havent done. You dont act like this, do these things, to someone who has loved you honestly and completely. They are so unhappy within themselves.

That it is what it is thing is hard to embrace. But, sometimes it truly is the mindset you need.

And I know I missed a HUGE flashing warning signal "EMOTIONAL DAMAGE" !! "EMOTIONAL DAMAGE!!! " If I have to be honest, I saw a small signal early on and chose to ignore it.

You know, Nero, its ok to live within your comfort zone until it just isnt comfortable anymore. And I think the more you look within, the less comfortable it is going to feel. I could be wrong, just a guess.

If you are ok with where you are in GAL, then you are. I do think you look to him a bit and seem to drop stuff when he comes around. But, you are where you need to be. Until you need something different..

So, happy you are feeling grateful and enjoying stuff you are doing.

Happy to hear you are coming to terms with your mother and sister and their actions.

I do not believe we should have to work for love. It should flow freely.

Those people, like our mothers and husbands, are superficial because they cannot look within. They are fearful of what they will find. So, they put on a good face, act the way they think they should. All the while, inside they are running.

You know, my friend, we just do the best we can. Be true to who we are. Live life with dignity and strength. The rest, well, is out of our hands.

Looking forward to meeting you.

And Dawn, what's wrong with a little bit of trouble? Just sayin....:)

[nero]

ya know UR -

UR rite about this to some extent. i'm not happy about what i'm living with. i'm not sure about what i'm seeing inside. what is inside is the same old me. (good or bad - idk) never really really examined that down to the bone. i guess, like you, it doesn't really matter ALL THAT MUCH about how those guys got where they are- or how i did. we're all here and honestly- the fl & nj - the ow - ancient mom- alllll of it- sounds dumb - but feel mighty like it's all really beyond my control. that's not true i do know- i just cannot figure out the "perfect" action or solution- so i do nothing and stay still. you know- like a small animal who senses danger- hope if i keep still no one will eat me. (what? waiting for that moment to run if i could see some safe haven somewhere?) not enough sleep as usual.

AND i do allow myself to be (mood) influenced too much by what and who is around me. true as can be -

as usual- tangled up in the db spiel. pma? so, if i shove it to the back of my mind and get on with my life - as i'm supposed to ( i think) - and gal - go to work, dress up - get the heck out- etc. and it does feel good - but is it "reality" or not- or just a coping ploy here??? i mean - i guess it's not my "new life" until i don't want the old life around anymore?

it's not "the most important thing in my life". that would be this stupid dying r - sitting in the corner of the room choking on a chicken bone.

oh well- gotta get dressed and get going. need to get to school at 7:00 to find a parking spot- and kids flood in at about 7:30 - might be nice if i know where i go and what i'm doing a bit in advance.

have a great day.

xxo

[LoisB]

i just cannot figure out the "perfect" action or solution- so i do nothing and stay still. you know- like a small animal who senses danger- hope if i keep still no one will eat me. (what? waiting for that moment to run if i could see some safe haven somewhere?).

Oh my Nero! I love, love, love this!! YOu make me smile.

And, the image of the relationship choking on a chicken bone!!!

You made me smile this morning. That's exactly how it feels. Having to sit and watch while this living thing, something you've invested so much in, is dying this horrible death and you can't do anything to prevent it.

I hope you are having a great day.

Heather

[uRworthy]

Nero, I swear I could talk to you all day. I hope I get the chance to do it again.

I'm not happy about what i'm living with. i'm not sure about what i'm seeing inside. what is inside is the same old me. (good or bad - idk) never really really examined that down to the bone.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you are not really the same old you. I mean, you are thinking about things, thinking about changing things, thinking about how other people sometimes determine your mood. You are decluttering your home, got a new job. So, not the same old you at all, in my eyes. Not that there is anything at all wrong with the old you. The way I see it is, that I was forced onto this journey, so, I figure I might as well have figured out some stuff about me that needed changing anyway. And I figured out some other stuff, too, that I think really helped me.

i guess, like you, it doesn't really matter ALL THAT MUCH about how those guys got where they are- or how i did.

I mean, it matters to a point how they got here, but, we cant possibly know all of it, so.....we would just be spinning our wheels to try to figure them out, ya know?

But I do like to understand how I got here. For me. But thats just me. Not everyone needs to feel that way, right?

Honestly- the fl & nj - the ow - ancient mom- alllll of it- sounds dumb - but feel mighty like it's all really beyond my control. that's not true i do know- i just cannot figure out the "perfect" action or solution- so i do nothing and stay still. you know- like a small animal who senses danger- hope if i keep still no one will eat me. (what? waiting for that moment to run if i could see some safe haven somewhere?) not enough sleep as usual.

Doesnt sound dumb to me at all, my friend. It is, after all, your life and the people in it. I dont think there is a perfect solution or action. And sometimes doing nothing is a decision and an action. And often a good one if you are unsure.
But, for me, I no longer wanted to feel as if I had no control over my life. And so I figured out some stuff to give me some control. Wasnt perfect by any means, just the best I could do.


AND i do allow myself to be (mood) influenced too much by what and who is around me. true as can be -

I wanted to figure out my own feelings - whether they are sad or happy ones, without being influenced by what someone projected on me.

if i shove it to the back of my mind and get on with my life - as i'm supposed to ( i think) - and gal - go to work, dress up - get the heck out- etc. and it does feel good - but is it "reality" or not- or just a coping ploy here???

I think in the beginning it is a way to cope, absolutely. But at some point, and everyone's point is different, we have to invest in our life. Otherwise, we are just existing. Not really living, right?

i mean - i guess it's not my "new life" until i don't want the old life around anymore?

Absolutely ^^^^^.

it's not "the most important thing in my life". that would be this stupid dying r - sitting in the corner of the room choking on a chicken bone.

You know, Nero, the most important thing in your life.....is you. And you are amazing, and funny, and creative, and interesting. And have a whole lot to offer the world.

xoxo

[Portia]

Hey Nero!

Your post was great.

I feel as if I have spent a great deal if time trying to please people who won't ever be pleased with me. All grown up and still in some ways trying to prove myself to my parents, boss and everyone else. And never getting there.

I am trying not to require others validation but it is difficult. What I miss and loved about my partner was that I felt I could be me. That he loved me for me. And accepted that I was not traditional but that it didn't matter because I was what mattered. BD destroyed all of that, I never felt so wrong.

Take your time through this journey, Nero. Changes if the soul take a long time I think. I also think that we need to accept ourselves flaws and all. That is hard for me.

[beatrice]

BD destroyed all of that, I never felt so wrong.

I cannot tell you how much I relate to that. i think many of the people who post here are not traditional/conventional. But our MLC partners loved us, and when you are being different in a world that is often hostile to difference, being loved and celebrated is very important.

So yes, BD caused me to feel I had got it wrong form beginning to end. My attempts to live my life as I had chosen to do, often against some opposition, felt like a succession of bad choices.

I do not think we have to turn ourselves inside out trying to change. Sure, change what we need to, and there is always room for self improvement, but not simply because the MLCer has used aspects of us that they used to appreciate as weapons against us.

Learning to believe again that the core of me was and is actually OK took a long long time. Abandonment causes us to look deep within, because it is so very rejecting of all that we are. Learning, remembering, it is about them it crucial.

And when we do not have the support of our SO the people who want to bring us down for having lived as we have done can close in. What sort of people do that?

I have learned to be around people who are affirming, and not negative, and to value their opinion, and not that of people whose behaviour indicates that they have their own problems to deal with

[Portia]

Ditto Bea.

Just ditto.