I realize it's up to me to make my stand. I actually find myself role playing the confrontation in my head sometimes. Thinking of how, where and what I would say. But I probably should really start thinking about how W will respond and have some idea of how I will respond in turn.
I don't want to screw this up or breakdown emotionally. I know it will be tough.
What are your thoughts on something like this?:
"W, I want you to know that I'm aware of your relationship with OM and I know that it's a PA.
I'm not here to to judge you or criticize you. I don't even have the words to tell you how deeply this hurts me.
But, this isn't about me. It's not even about OM. It's about you and the pain and emptiness you must be suffering.
Please tell me what happened and what drove you to make a decision like this"?
If she responds by explaining to me what happened, I would respond like this:
I am so sorry for all that I've put you through due to my short comings. I can understand how that must have been so painful and you must have felt so hopeless. I'm so sorry you went through that.
As you know, several months ago I made a committment to myself to be the man I know I can be and the husband and father that you and our sons deserve. I've been working very hard and I'm committed to improving this marriage. I'm getting counselling, taking medication and have taken responsibility for my problems and I'm working to fix them. You've mentioned yourself you've seen tremendous improvements from me.
I realize you have cut off emotionally from me and don't think this marriage can survive or may not be willing to try anymore. I can understand why you would feel that way. But all marriages lose that loving feeling and it's up to both of us to work to keep that going. We've been through nothing but trauma for the past 5 years and it's understandable how this came to be.
We have a great opportunity to do the right thing for our family here! I certainly don't want a divorce.
Love is a decison, not a feeling. And I don't want our old marriage either!
So, I'm inviting you to join me in rebuilding a better, stronger marriage for both of us, leaving the past behind us and using this valuable experience to guide us there.
W, you are the love of my life. This would mean ending your relationship with OM and having no contact with him ever again. Otherwise, you'll be giving up a great guy, a continually improving homelife and friendship and sharing and damaging our children".
Hopeful, Is this reasonable? What are your thoughts? I really need to make the right impact and maintain a loving approach. I certainly don't want to push her away!
Vince B M=10 yrs T=13 yrs M45 / H 44 2 Boys 5 & 8 D Day: 7/16/13
I would not deliver what you've written above. If you confront her and she's surprised, she'll deny then get angry with you and won't hear anything you have to say. She'll likely tell you she wants a D and you will become the target of some unanticipated fury.
The very best prescription is this (IMO): 180 her complaints such that there is no question that you are a better man. Make it actions, not words. Saying that you are committed to making things better is worthless, you have to prove it through action.
You want her to see a happy, supportive, confident guy who defies her complaints and preconceived notions. After there is no doubt you are who you want to be, you confront her, tell her that you know she's having an affair and has done so in the past, and that you will not be in an open marriage. You tell her you're interested in working things out assuming that both of you will do the work required, and then you head the other way. You give her all the space in the world. You just drop the rope and check out and you wait for her to come around or leave.
The mistake most LBS' make is thinking they can influence a WAS to come back through persuasion. You cannot. Nothing you say will get that done, and 90% of the time it will have directly the opposite effect.
The shortest path back together is to head in the opposite direction, *after* you have established yourself as a spouse only a fool would leave through your actions.
This is an emotionally brutal path, because you will get no reassurance, no positive feedback, nothing you feel you are owed. You just have to gut it out, have faith, and drop the rope.
Anything else makes it worse.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
I appreciate your input here. That is something I obviously overlooked. Man! This is a many faceted undertaking.
Just so you are aware, I have been doing 180's since July of this year when I learned of the A. She has since made comments about my improvements.
Just Sunday night, I revealed to her that I had made this commitment to myself months ago to be a better man, father and husband, including seeing a therapist and taking medication. She responded by telling me that she has seen a tremendous improvement with my approach and interaction with our sons.
I told her that I know what the kids need from me, but I wanted to know what she wasn't getting from me that she needed. Her response was "just focus on improving yourself and becoming the man you want to be and the rest will fall into place".
Not very reassuring, huh? Sounds non-commital to me.
I'm definitely comitted to continuing with my hard work and improving. The tough part is not really knowing what to focus on with her as far as improving our relationship because she is so checked out and focused on OM.
I mean, where's the opportunity to make progress when she doesn't leave the door open for me to make a difference?
I do many tasks for her, clean house, laundry, dishes, all the things that make her life easier. What are some things that I can do to demonstrate 180's in the realm of not meeting her needs over the years? Especially when she won't tell me what she wasn't getting from me.
Anyway, back to your suggestion. It seems like I would be putting myself at risk for a quick flight by W if I make a quick statement that I'm aware of her A's and then drop the rope and walk out!
May I ask how your confrontation went? Was it simlilar to your suggestion? What specifically, was your W's reaction and how did it proceed from there?
Vince B M=10 yrs T=13 yrs M45 / H 44 2 Boys 5 & 8 D Day: 7/16/13
My sitch was different because OM had already gone NC, so W didn't have the option of continuing the A. I confronted her as you were planning to do and the result was her getting furious, demanding D and heading the other way, so what I did is not a good example!
Originally Posted By: doubledown
Just Sunday night, I revealed to her that I had made this commitment to myself months ago to be a better man, father and husband, including seeing a therapist and taking medication.
Don't tell her, just demonstrate through your actions. Narrating your life doesn't help them notice. Generally it will backfire as they'll suspect you're doing it to "get them back" and therefore your changes won't be permanent. Much better to just do it and say nothing about it.
Originally Posted By: doubledown
I'm definitely comitted to continuing with my hard work and improving. The tough part is not really knowing what to focus on with her as far as improving our relationship because she is so checked out and focused on OM.
A common model for marriage is the notion of the "love tank" or "love bank". The theory is that if you are meeting their needs, you are making deposits. If you piss them off, you're making withdrawals. If your balance goes negative for too long, they eventually walk.
If you're trying to fill their tank and it's not working, there are two explanations, (1) either you're doing the wrong things (read "The Five Love Languages", or (2) there is a blocker in place preventing you from making any deposits.
These "blockers" can be something that you're doing that's annoying them or grating on them, that prevents them from seeing or appreciating anything else, OR there can be an OP involved who is consuming all their emotional cycles.
In the instance of an OP, there is really nothing you can do to meet their needs, because they are not available to have their needs met by you.
Originally Posted By: doubledown
I mean, where's the opportunity to make progress when she doesn't leave the door open for me to make a difference?
Can't, that's why you have to go the other way.
Originally Posted By: doubledown
I do many tasks for her, clean house, laundry, dishes, all the things that make her life easier. What are some things that I can do to demonstrate 180's in the realm of not meeting her needs over the years? Especially when she won't tell me what she wasn't getting from me.
I think instead of looking to do more, you should be doing less and heading the other way. If what you say is true and you've been demonstrating "better man" for months, then it's probably time to force a crisis.
Your wife is "cake eating", which is to say that she gets the house, the kids, a husband at home who will support her, do her laundry, dishes, clean her house, and with all that she can continue to see OM. Time to end that enabling.
Originally Posted By: doubledown
Anyway, back to your suggestion. It seems like I would be putting myself at risk for a quick flight by W if I make a quick statement that I'm aware of her A's and then drop the rope and walk out!
Yep, that's exactly what you want. Let her fly. You've demonstrated the man you can be. You've shown her what she will be missing. Time to put the choice to her. You or OM, but not both. She may choose OM in the near term, you cannot prevent that. It's either OM with you, or OM without you. In the end, I would suggest that "OM without you" is less painful.
Pick up a copy of "Love Must Be Tough" and see what you think. There is some practical advice in there that may help.
The position you're in is terrible, but only you can make it better, and in this case, you have to make it worse before it can be better. It won't get better without getting worse, so prepare for that and embrace it.
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
It seems like I would be putting myself at risk for a quick flight by W if I make a quick statement that I'm aware of her A's and then drop the rope and walk out!
Yep. It is a paradox of DBing -- and of Life, for that matter -- that until you're willing to lose something (and realize you'll be okay), you'll never really save it.
Until you overcome that fear, DD, you will get nowhere. It's OK if you decided you're not there yet, but make no mistake about the reality of it.
You didn't ask me, but I'll answer this anyway, DD.
My wife screamed like a witch with holy water poured on her. Nearly all do. Threatened to divorce me, said she hated me, said she hated me for a long time, etc., etc., etc.
I also survived the tempest, and -- ultimately -- saved my marriage.
What an actively-wayward spouse SAYS and what they MEAN/BELIEVE are two very different things, DD. And it will swing wildly all over the map once they know that you know.
Here's the breakdown on the confrontation dynamic. When your W decides to have an affair it's because she's unhappy and resents you for it rightly or wrongly.
Resentment meter at 6
She has an affair and feels guilty for doing so. Her guilt inhibits her enjoyment of her affair. She blames you for making her feel guilty and not able to fully embrace the new relationship.
Resentment meter at 8
You confront her and make statements that shame her by either direct shaming or talking about your hurt and pain.
Resentment meter goes to 10
Lid pops off and bomb drops.
If you want to prevent that. You make normalizing statements when you confront "everyone enjoys attention from the opposite sex, anyone can be tempted when their needs aren't met"
Resentment meter drops from 8 to 7
Then you distance / give space tell her you will not be in an open marriage but she can do what she likes.
What does she have to resent? You set her free and gave her a choice.
The resentment meter is your enemy, don't push it higher
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Here's the breakdown on the confrontation dynamic. When your W decides to have an affair it's because she's unhappy and resents you for it rightly or wrongly.
Resentment meter at 6
She has an affair and feels guilty for doing so. Her guilt inhibits her enjoyment of her affair. She blames you for making her feel guilty and not able to fully embrace the new relationship.
Resentment meter at 8
You confront her and make statements that shame her by either direct shaming or talking about your hurt and pain.
Resentment meter goes to 10
Lid pops off and bomb drops.
If you want to prevent that. You make normalizing statements when you confront "everyone enjoys attention from the opposite sex, anyone can be tempted when their needs aren't met"
Resentment meter drops from 8 to 7
Then you distance / give space tell her you will not be in an open marriage but she can do what she likes.
What does she have to resent? You set her free and gave her a choice.
The resentment meter is your enemy, don't push it higher
