Confused and Lost

[25yearsmlc]

So your anger, and reacting in anger, set you back??

Now you are wondering about hiring a P I....to what end?

If its not to punish her, I don't know what is.

You are going astray again, & forgetting how you two got here.

You do this at Your peril.

Also, while you think your daughter coming to the ANNIVERSARY dinner lessened the awkwardness, it also eliminated any chance for emotional intimacy. Ask yourself why that was okay with you, I mean, good grief! Why no sitter?

And then ask yourself how much that has been happening the past few years.

What are you avoiding? The very closeness & intimacy your wife craves & needs?

That's my guess. Dig way deeper & be brave. Change YOU.

[lovenomatterwhat]

Stand strong because right now she will make you feel like cr@p.

I had to call into work today as I feel into a deep depression today. I slept in my daughter's bed last night by myself (daughter slept with wife) when my wife came into the room at around 4 am. She told me that she was getting closer to me and that she was ready to start giving me a chance but that I blew it by invading her privacy. I should have validated but instead I tried to defend. She told me that she thought I had changed but I am the same person who throws things in her face.

My wife was just a kid when she saw her father kill her mom in front of. Growing up she was mentally abused by her uncle and various family members. This morning she told me that she was paranoid that someone was going to kill her (she was literally in tears) and that when I invaded her privacy by looking at text messages, snooping, etc that she felt violated. She then told me that she and OM tell each other they love each other because she is so screwed up that she needs to hear someone tell her that so she doesn't commit suicide. She told me that she goes to work crying and that OM is just a friend that is helping her get through. I didn't do a good job validating and she got upset at me.

She text me several hours later asking if I wanted to go to lunch with her. I did but I wish I didn't. She acted like she didn't want to be there and I brought up the topic of the relationship (I know, bad DBing on my part). I need to come ready to talk about something pleasant, etc. Needless to say, I don't think she will be inviting me out to lunch anytime soon.

At home she was distant, cold and I could tell she didn't want to be in the same room as me.

I spent most of today crying, throwing up and so depressed that I couldn't really move much, just laying on the bed. I feel like I am going crazy. I know what I heard and read. How can my wife tell me that telling OM she loves him and misses him, wants to be with him, etc is just her way of coping with her issues. How can she not see that wanting to sneak out or planning road trips with OM is not appropriate. Am I wrong here? I feel like I am losing it. She made me feel so bad this morning and made it seem like I was the one who was crazy.

I understand her feeling violated about my snooping. I get that. How can she not get that what she and OM tell each other is detrimental to the marriage and is just as hurtful as me snooping. She told me doing lunch that she is not even close to wanting to go on dates with me and is so disgusted with me that she has lost all trust (make to square one).

I felt so low this morning and still do. I just want to quit school and just go to therapy all day. Unfortunately I got a full scholarship and if I quit I pretty much forfeit it - Arrrh. I honestly began to question whether I was going nuts. Maybe she is not having an emotional affair is one of the thoughts I kept thinking. But then how can she and OM tell each other those things if she wasn't and act like its okay.

I don't know if I can be in this in the long haul. I feel like 4 months of DBing just went down the drain and now it will take at least 8 months just to get back to where I was last week. I can't keep living like this. This emotional distress is going to get me fired or send me to a psych unit or something. I know I am stronger than this. This is my crucible. You reap what you sow - so this is my just punishment I guess.

[25yearsmlc]

Stand strong because right now she will make you feel like cr@p.

I had to call into work today as I feel into a deep depression today. I slept in my daughter's bed last night by myself (daughter slept with wife) when my wife came into the room at around 4 am. She told me that she was getting closer to me and that she was ready to start giving me a chance but that I blew it by invading her privacy. I should have validated but instead I tried to defend. She told me that she thought I had changed but I am the same person who throws things in her face.

All or most of this ^^ sounds true. YOU must do better. Stop staring at HER flaws & work SOLELY on yours. I mean it. You achieve Nothing by criticizing her, except to validate her reasons for wanting Out!



My wife was just a kid when she saw her father kill her mom in front of. Growing up she was mentally abused by her uncle and various family members.


This ^^^^ is HUGE!! Do NOT minimize that horrendous trauma!

Has she gotten IC for that? Good God almighty...


This morning she told me that she was paranoid that someone was going to kill her (she was literally in tears) and that when I invaded her privacy by looking at text messages, snooping, etc that she felt violated.


I understand this. Sounds as if you do not. You need to wrap your brain around HER POINT OF VIEW ASAP.

It's called Empathy.

I need to see a whole lot more from you, and I bet She does too.



She then told me that she and OM tell each other they love each other because she is so screwed up that she needs to hear someone tell her that so she doesn't commit suicide. She told me that she goes to work crying and that OM is just a friend that is helping her get through. I didn't do a good job validating and she got upset at me.


So, you blew it again...yikes. You are running out of chances.

She text me several hours later asking if I wanted to go to lunch with her. I did but I wish I didn't. She acted like she didn't want to be there and I brought up the topic of the relationship (I know, bad DBing on my part). I need to come ready to talk about something pleasant, etc. Needless to say, I don't think she will be inviting me out to lunch anytime soon.

WOW...is this ^^^ strike 3 or 4 or what?? Good grief! Learn and change!!



At home she was distant, cold and I could tell she didn't want to be in the same room as me.

Do you blame her?


I spent most of today crying, throwing up and so depressed that I couldn't really move much, just laying on the bed. I feel like I am going crazy. I know what I heard and read.

No you don't. You are far too selective in what you choose to focus on. I cannot believe you never even mentioned her traumatic experiences as a child, which DO RELATE to your M issues, until now!

That is what you skim over because our pride and ego are wounded. Honestly I am very frustrated with you now. I feel you are not seeing the forest for the trees. Her background and depression and emotional issues are of grave concern.

Clearly however, you are MUCH MORE interested in the A because your pain is Your priority.

She has one of the few decent excuses for crazy behavior AND she says she wants to change those.

But you want to keep harping on her sins and Your victim hood. Its self centered and

You do this misdirected focus, at your peril.



How can my wife tell me that telling OM she loves him and misses him, wants to be with him, etc is just her way of coping with her issues. How can she not see that wanting to sneak out or planning road trips with OM is not appropriate. Am I wrong here? I feel like I am losing it.

You both need professional help. She has been thru hell.

You keep wanting to make this about the affair, or whatever it is. But that lets you off the hook, which is probably why you harp so much on HER choices.

Geez, Do you ever wonder why it took her so long to seek solace in someone else's arms? She has been so patient with you, but four months of pain IN you makes you want to bolt. See any double syandards here?

Ever give her a little credit for sticking out TWO lousy marriages to you, only to see you revert again?

Please get some intensive T, and attend Retrovaille if she is willing.

Meanwhile, you MUST LEARN TO STFU.
NO discussion of her R with OM helps you right now.

I will repeat that^^^ for emphasis...

NO DISCUSSION OF OM HELPS YOU RIGHT NOW.

So stop all of it and work on you.

Your behavior played a role in her choices.

YOUR BEHAVIOR IS ALL YOU CONTROL. Do you get that?

IF you really want to reduce the odds of her repeating the A behavior, then CHANGE YOU.
Shaming her won't work. It's not kind or loving and It also plays into her view and fear of you.

wow, It must trigger so many emotions in her.


I understand her feeling violated about my snooping. I get that. How can she not get that what she and OM tell each other is detrimental to the marriage and is just as hurtful as me snooping. She told me doing lunch that she is not even close to wanting to go on dates with me and is so disgusted with me that she has lost all trust (make to square one).

I felt so low this morning and still do. I just want to quit school and just go to therapy all day. Unfortunately I got a full scholarship and if I quit I pretty much forfeit it - Arrrh. I honestly began to question whether I was going nuts. Maybe she is not having an emotional affair is one of the thoughts I kept thinking. But then how can she and OM tell each other those things if she wasn't and act like its okay.

I don't know if I can be in this in the long haul. I feel like 4 months of DBing just went down the drain and now it will take at least 8 months just to get back to where I was last week. I can't keep living like this. This emotional distress is going to get me fired or send me to a psych unit or something. I know I am stronger than this. This is my crucible. You reap what you sow - so this is my just punishment I guess.

I lack the time to write more. But I hope you can change your view point ASAP.

I read your whole thread...you are beginning to get amnesia about why you are in this position. That's a dangerous development.

But you can change if you want. Decide if you want to be happy, Or do you want to be "right"?

And remember this too:

Holding onto anger to punish someone else,

Is like lighting yourself on fire....to get smoke in their eyes.

Your anger hurts YOU the most, by far.

[lovenomatterwhat]

Hello Everyone,

Sorry it has taken me so long to post. So much has happened since the anniversary/confrontation that I don’t know where to begin but I will do my best.

A couple of days after our anniversary my wife woke me up in the middle of the night and told me she wanted to talk. She told me that when we got remarried that she didn’t understand why we fought so much. She told me that the way I have been treated her the last four months is how I should have treated her from the very beginning when we got remarried. She told me that if I really loved her that I would have done everything to treat her well and to not risk destroying the marriage since I knew how much the divorce hurt. She asked me how could I say that I loved her when I treated her so badly when we got married. I did a good job just listening, validating and hearing her out. I told her that I didn’t have an explanation other than I was wrong and sorry for my actions. She told me that it felt good to let it out and that she just wanted me to listen to her. Needless to say, I felt really ashamed about the last 2 years and she made some very valid points.

After that talk, she continued to wake me up in the middle of the night to talk. She really began to lower her walls and to tell me a little bit about her fears, some of the issues she is facing with her past, etc. She told me that the OM has helped her out a lot in working out her issues and that she would never marry him since she wants financial stability that she doesn’t think he can give her. She told me that she is not going to stop talking to OM and that they are just friends. She told me that the OM told her that she needs to think about the last time she and I were happy and use that as a starting point to start working on our marriage. She told me that she can’t think of the last time we were happy together – that she doesn’t really have any good memories of us together other than when we were dating. She told me that she doesn’t know what is going to happen to our marriage but that she is trying to figuring things out. I listened, validated and did not repeat the mistakes I made in the past of interrupting or making it about me. I really tried to understand things from her perspective. She is going to start counseling tomorrow for herself.

After these talks I honestly thought I was about to enter another cold war. Instead, the opposite seemed to have happened. Several nights in a row she woke me up (I’ve been sleeping in my daughter’s room) and asked me why I was sleeping there. I always try to be vague and say things like I fell asleep putting our daughter to bed, etc). Anyway, she told me to come lay down next to her. After several days of this, I’ve now been sleeping on the same bed as her. She then has been telling me to give her a massage or to rub her back. The last five days or so I’ve not only have been sleeping on the same bed, but I’ve been holding her to. We even got up several times in the morning to exercise together. Overall, she seems more playful and talkative to me than usual. That said, I think me being on the bed is only limited to night time. Several times I tested the waters when she was laying down doing the day on the bed and I got on bed next to her and she would response by asking me “what am I doing on the bed?” So I took that as she telling me to back off.

As far as OM goes, she is getting comfortable talking about him doing our conversations. She is vague but she will say stuff like OM and I were talking about such and such, etc. Very broad and general in nature. She refuses to recognize this as an emotional affair but I’ve been doing a good job on just listening and not showing any type of disapproval, etc. It hurts but I know that love has to be free – that I can’t be controlling – she has to come to me on her own terms. Honestly, I don’t think she will ever break from OM – I think she is convinced that being friends regardless of what happened between them is appropriate. Her other best friend use to be an ex-boyfriend (this is before we got married/remarried). I know I can’t think or focus on that now but a certain sadness will still come over me at times thinking about her and the OM.

I sometimes feel like quitting. Today has been one of those days. I see so many positive signs and yet I feel like she will never want me or love me like the way she expressed her feelings for this OM. She told me that she is going to start going walking with him again (she hadn’t gone walking with him the last 2 weeks). I tell her that exercising is good and that she should go walking to take care of herself. I’ve been trying real hard to not show disapproval or contempt. She is a free person to do what she wants and I can only control what I do.

Overall, school has been keeping me busy. My wife sees that I am making an effort to put family first and has made several comments about it. My daughter had try outs for a swim team and my wife was happy that I didn’t go to class to see our daughter try out. If the family is doing something together (like watching TV in the living, etc), I am with them, even if I am studying. I am really trying to put family first here but it is really hard sometimes with the demands of work and school but I am determine to make it work (plus coffee helps). I’ve also gotten heavily involved with a lot of my daughter’s activities (I am on the girl’s scout committee, etc).

I am still confused on what I should or shouldn’t be doing. Sometimes I’m not sure if I should be texting her, calling her, etc. So I don’t and let her come to me. Right now that seems to be working best. I really do want to save this marriage but I think at this point I want her to get the help that she needs to be whole again. Her past and my actions have caused a lot of damage to her. So I am hoping that with time, counseling, etc that she will find happiness and feel safe again – with or without me. I need to work on detaching and not having expectations. I’ve also been thinking about what I need to do to work on myself – to become a better person and not go back to being that mean person I was earlier this year. I will write later and response to some of the previous responses.

[lovenomatterwhat]

Today I am feeling down but trying to keep my head up the best I can.

My wife’s best friend is guy whom she has known for over 15 years. It just so happens that he has the exact same name as OM. My wife made a comment two days ago saying that it’s ironic and funny how both her best friends have the same name and how I use to tell her that I don’t want another [insert name here] in her life and now I do. I told her that I didn’t find it funny at all. She told me that she thought it was just funny and asked me why I didn’t. I told her that I don’t think it is funny when OM will lead to a divorce, property separation and the destruction of our family. She responded by saying that we are not getting a divorce. I told her that OM was a deal breaker for me and left it at that. For the rest of the evening she was distant and later told me that she is not going to break off the “friendship” with OM. That he is the one constant in her life and if I didn’t like it that I should just get a divorce now because she isn’t going to stop talking to him. I told her that I want to make our marriage work but I was not going to share her heart with OM. She then made a comment that if I am going to get a divorce then what’s the point of her going to counseling. I found that a little odd as the counseling sessions are for her to work on her family issues/past and not the marriage.

The next day she was sort of distant with me in the morning but later that afternoon acted as if the conversation never took place. In retrospective, I wish I would have kept my mouth shut as she probably took it as me trying to be controlling. Later that evening we had a nice conversation about things that are going on in her job, etc. I’m glad that she is opening up more to me about things that are going on in her life.

That said, I’m really struggling with all this. I was doing better and felt like I wasn’t as depress prior to her making that statement about OM. Since then I’ve been a real mess, crying in the car when driving by myself, having a hard time focusing at school and work, etc. I wish I could just get away from everything for a couple of days. Being near her is tough sometimes. We are now sleeping on the same bed and she is letting me hold her at night. But then she will make remarks such as ,”why are you on my bed?” I normally will respond by telling her that I will go sleep somewhere else and then she will tell me to stay. We got some bicycles so we are now going bike reading in the evenings a couple of times a week now as a family. Overall, I feel like I am getting some many mixed messages. She hasn’t gone “walking” with this guy in over a month but keeps telling me that she needs to go walking. Her counselor actually told her that walking and journaling will help her out (I doubt she told counselor she goes walking with OM). I’m sure she will probably start this up again but who knows.

Overall, I feel like I am getting mixed signals from my W. I am so confused about what my actions should or shouldn’t be. I wish I can just go dark so I can work on really detaching. I am seeing some positive signs from her but at the same time she has made it clear that she is not breaking the relationship with OM. I was doing a lot better before she made that comment about OM and best friend having the same name – that just knocked down whatever self-esteem I had built up. There are some days that I just want to call it quits. I’ve been so depress these last two days. I feel like I am so busy with doing the household chores, school, work, DBing, spending time with daughter that I am just going to collapse. I honestly just want to quit school. I have another counseling session next week but I am considering getting a DB coach on top of that. $$$ is tight at the moment but at this point I could use all the help and coaching I can get. 2013 feels like the worst year of my life.

[lovenomatterwhat]

Just venting.

Being in limbo feels worse than actually experiencing a divorce and knowing that it is over. At least then you can start to get closure and move on. But being in limbo seems like a perpertual torture that is driving me nuts - literally. Looking back, The last 15 years of my life have been a failure. I had a wonderful wife and daughter. I was selfish and had to screw it up - not just once but twice. I don't think things are ever going to work between my wife and I. So much damage is done that she will never open her heart to me again. She doesn't trust me and I doubt she really wants to have a relationship with me. Maybe out of concern for our daughter but I don't think she has any love left. Maybe she is better off with OM. At least she can have a clean start with no baggage. She obviously prefers OM over me. The excitement that she gets texting him, talking to him, anxious to see him, etc - she never really had that for me or if she did - it has been so long that she no longer remembers any of the good times. She is never going to let go off OM and why would she. He is obviously the better choice. I feel like such a loser because I am one. I wish sometimes I would just die. My life [censored] and I feel like there is nothing left fighting for other than my daughter. Even then, she is probably better off with wife/OM - at least she would see her mom happy. I would give my wife the world, treat her like a princess and do everything I can to be the best husband she deserves. I want so badly to protect her, to love her, to charish her and make her feel like she is precious and has worth. Too little too late it seems like. Nothing I do will ever be good enough for her now. I've been replaced.

I am so down in the dumps. I dread the weekends now. At least during the week work, school and my daughter's activities can somewhat help numb the pain. The weekends just bring so much sadness now. I am afraid to go home sometimes. Seeing my wife sometimes makes me sad. I just want to go and lay down on the covers and sleep/cry. It stinks that I can't even do that since I have to fake it when I'm home and act happy when I am so down.

----
You can just ignore this post. Just needed to vent.

[planet]

Hey there.
I felt exactly the same thing. I don't like weekends too without W and my kids.
Try to do stuff to take your mind off things.

[lovenomatterwhat]

I feel like I am struggling between having unconditional love and being quixotic/foolish. Although my wife is a WAS, she had every right to walk out of the relationship. As a kid my wife witnessed her dad kill her mom, was mentally abused by her family, had to endure me walking out of her life when she had our daughter only to have me come back into her life to mentally abuse her after we remarried. She ran to OM out of desperation, hurt and for the overall need to feel love and safe – something I did not provide to her. So here I am wanted to save our marriage when in reality my wife is hurting and needs healing more than the marriage needs saving. I have been so caught up on my own needs and feelings that I’ve neglected to see how damage my wife is emotionally. My wife continues to confine in OM and she tells me that he is the one person she feels she can trust since I’ve destroyed most of the trust we had. Looking back, when we got remarried frustration kicked in due to me feeling my needs were not being meant. She had a bad attitude on certain things and would be controlling at times. I think a huge part of all this is that we never really dealt with the issues of the past and harbored a lot of hurt and resentment towards each other. I in turn did not control my emotions well and eventually erupted with verbal abuse and anger. As a husband and man of the house, my wife needed me to be strong, to protect her and to love her despite of the hurt feelings. I failed miserably and it is no wonder that she does not want to let go of OM.
Right now I am struggling with the need/want to feel loved and save our marriage (needs focused on me) vs putting those needs aside to figure out what my wife needs to get the healing she needs. I want her to be happy, to feel secure, safe and to have love. I get frustrated because I realize that I cannot give her those things no matter how hard I try. She is getting those needs meant by OM and by going to counseling for herself. So in the meantime I feel like I am just on the sidelines. There is a part of me that wants to just wait, support wife however I can, give her space, and give her the time to find the healing she needs. If she wants to see OM, I need to just let her without showing disapproval or making a big deal about this. If OM is what she needs to get healing, then maybe that is best for her if it saves her (even if it kills the marriage in the process). I know God has given me time to work on myself and to fix all the issues that have led to this point. I still have a lot of work to do on me and have been going to counseling to try to figure things out. In the meantime, I am still not detached from wife. I am trying to but it is so hard at times. The last two nights my daughter has slept in the master bedroom with my wife. I normally would have picked her up and taken her to her room so I can sleep next to my wife but I haven’t. I feel like I need to have space from my wife. While I have enjoyed holding and sleeping next to my wife recently, I feel like it is making things worse inside me as expectations and desires start to merge. I know that my wife does not feel the same about me so I am trying to drift away. It just seems like whenever I try to do it my wife comes to me. This morning I woke up at 5 am (my wife and I normally get up around 5 am to water the grass or just talk in bed for a few minutes) and this time I stayed in bed even though I could hear that my wife was up. I felt like I needed to just stay away from her. She made a comment to me this morning as she was leaving for work that I didn’t’ get up in the morning with her. While it did make me happy that she notice, I feel like all the mix messages I have been getting from her lately has really thrown me into an emotional mess. I am still in a state where I miss her texting and calling me throughout the day, where we can spend time together at night and really act like a marriage couple. But no matter how bad I want that, she is not there and I doubt she ever real be. Her heart really has been given to someone else and I have to accept that it is out of my control. For that reason, a part of me wants to just end this now so I can start the healing for myself and can move on. But then I think that is just being selfish since she is suffering inside too, most because of my action.
I really do want to save this marriage. I am lost as far as what to do though. It is so hard to detach while we are in the same house. I can see that she has opened up to me lately and is making more of an effect. Those positive signs give me hope while also making it difficult to act as if I am moving own/detach. At this point, if she wants to be with OM – I wish she would just do it and be done with it. It is so true when they say that the battle takes place in the mind. Right now my mind is so confusing with so many conflicting choices. I have a counseling session this afternoon so I can’t wait to vent but more importantly I am hoping to really understand the causes for me being a jerk so I can work on becoming the spouse only a fool would leave. With or without my wife, I need to become a better person. I hope my wife gets there too. At is almost as if we both need saving.

[JayMan]

Maybe you need some perspective. If my W was still in the house, I'd hug her and love her and be the happiest guy ever - and never mention OM. Here's the thing - your W has an obvious connection of some sort. Talking about it isn't going to handle it and cutting her off isn't going to handle it, unless it's your boundary.

From what I'm reading, you aren't presenting an attractive picture at all. I see sadness, depression, anger, angst, grumpiness, etc. Have you considered counseling or medication if necessary? It seems to me the reason W stays in contact with OM is because you aren't anyone she'd want to share with or spend time with!

It's hard work - I know how it is to feel crushed, alone, etc. But I have focused on working out, kids, friends, finding things to do. I started keeping some distance with W (easier for me since she is living separately), and she has started to show interest.

If you're not going to file divorce, your only other option (besides hating limbo) is to love your wife - so go for it! I had to make that hard choice not long ago...

[lovenomatterwhat]

I BLEW IT - PROBABLY OVER NOW

The title pretty much sums it up. Where do I begin. Okay, Monday through Wednesday I pretty much made it a point to sleep on my daughter's bed even though I had been sleeping on the same bed as my wife for the past week or so. I did this because I felt like I needed to detach and sleeping on the same bed seemed to caused my emotions and expectations to jump off the roof. The thing is, she was for the most part receptive to me sleeping on the same bed so I should have stuck with it.

So Thursday evening I was really missing my wife so I decided to lay down on the bed with her while she was watching TV. She asked me why I was on the bed - that didn't I have studying to do. I told her that I do but that I wanted to make time for her. She told me that she didn't need time and that I should study. I think started to rub her legs when she told me to stop because she had a bruise. I acted like a kid, got up and told her that I guess I've been replaced as I was walking out of the room. Later that evening I went to bed on the same bed as she. She woke me up at around 4 am to tell me that I had solidified why she couldn't trusted me - because I made comments like that. She then went on to tell me that her counselor wants her to do journaling but she can't even do that because she is afraid I am going to start snooping like I did on her phone. I told her that I damaged her so bad and that I was sorry for my mistakes. I told her that I want to be a family and have a marriage but I don't think she will ever forgive me/risk making it work. I told her maybe it was better if I moved out of the house. She told me that would be a big mistake and that she is not the type of person to give up on a marriage that easy.

I ended up leaving work early that day as I was so depressed that I couldn't function. She called me and told me that she wanted to know why I had change - that I know the reason why and that I needed to tell her. I told her that there was no Demascus moment -that I was miserable with my life and that I realized that I had failed in life by neglecting my family. She didn't believe me and told me that I better text her the truth. I asked her if she would like to come with me to see my counselor and perhaps the counselor could help me better explain to her why I changed. She responded by saying "I guess"

That same evening my daughter had a girl's scout sleepover at the zoo. When I got home from work (I had left early), I was so depressed that I cried and feel asleep. When my wife got home, I was still getting everything ready (packing clothes, air mattresses, etc) that she got real mad at me because we were suppose to leave at 4:30 and I had only packed about 80%. She told me that I was irresponsible, knew we had to leave at 4:30 and that I should have been ready when she got home. That lead to an argument. At first I was apologizing but then she stated making comments like "that is a stupid question" when I asked if she needed a particular item. I told her that she didn't have to be mean and she responded by saying that I was mean to her for 10 years so I have no right to complain.

We stopped by a restaurant by the zoo and she noticed that I had called her when we were driving. She asked why did I call and I responded by saying that I wanted to see if her phone rang when I called. That lead to another argument with her telling me that it is none of my business if the phone rings or not and that she was tired of my manipulation and control. I told her that it was important that people be able to reach her and that is why I was checking. Ahh, what an idiot I am.

I started to cry and when we got to the parking lot - I told her that I didn't want to go to the zoo anymore - that I was a mess. She told me that I was so and that I wasn't going to miss out on my daughters event like I have for the past 10 years. I told her okay but if can at least be civil and acted like we are married. She responded by telling me that we are not married and that we have never had a marriage because I was a lousy husband.

Once the event started, things settled down and actually ended up having a good time. This morning I brought them a couple of zoo t-shirts and we ended up going to the mall. When we got to the parking lot, she had opened up a weight watcher letter that she had been waiting for. I asked he what it said and she told me it was none of my business and that I needed to stop snooping away. I got upset and told her that she didn't have to be so rude - that I was just asking a question. She got further upset with me and told me that she was just going to drop me off at the house. I started to beg,plea, etc for her not to - that I wanted to spend time with the family, etc. That made up further upset with her telling me that I never wanted that in the past.

After she dropped me off, I made all the DB NO-NOs. I texted her, I called her numerous times, left voice messages, etc. It was pathetic - I was a mess crying the whole time.

At this point, I think I pretty much blew any chance I had of saving this marriage. I was so looking forward to this weekend. I felt like it was a good opportunity to show her that I am serious about being a family man and instead it all went down to crap. I reacted instead of acting with intention. I allowed my emotions and my neediness and my wanting to rush things along to get the best of me. I became my old self and all I did was justify why my wife cannot trust - that I haven't changed at all.

At this point, I don't know what to do. I can start over, go back to the Sandi rules, and see what happens. A part of me thinks that I need to just move out of the house and get an apartment or something. My wife and I are both so damaged and messed up in the head that no progress is being made. I want her to be able to journal and work on herself but she tells me that she feels she can't with me being there. At the same time, she told me that leaving would only confirm the trust issues that she has towards me. I am lost - any advice here? Did I really blew it and should just get a divorce now? I so badly want to save this marriage but it seems so hopeless.