You can argue till you're blue in the face with us, but you cant make your w think something she doesnt think, even if we ALL agreed with you. You think you're reasonable, no one here has been able to convince you otherwise, its time to make your offer. If she doesnt accept then its on to the attorneys. DBers agreeing with you wont make any more difference than DBers disagreeing with you did.
As my lawyer put it, if spouse doesnt agree, fine, sell the house and split the proceeds and go on your way. If the sale yields no money theres nothing to split.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
^^^This is what I've been trying to tell you since months ago but you're so stuck on being right you can't see the forest for the trees. I would guess your W got the same thing anytime she wanted something that was different from what you wanted and that's probably why she's so adamant to make sure she gets what's legally due her.
Just do it and let the chips fall. If there is no equity, there is no equity. If the house truly belongs to your mother, the appraiser and the court will note that.
What are you afraid of here?
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
I guess I am afraid of raising conflict and putting my wife, daughter and I in a position that we end up in a battle. That's scary, but it is a battle I would fight to keep myself from being taken advantage of. After this is all over, I need to consider MY future, and the future I can have with my daughter. I am not just going to roll over because W feels she needs X amount of dollars, based on nothing, so she can buy a new house and move on with no financial worries. In a perfect world that would be great. In our world, that is not reality.
I didn't intend on my comment being a cheap shot towards 25. I apologize if it came off that way. I simply meant that I knew that 25 felt that wife worked and put money into our home, and therefore she deserved something in return. I appreciate the perspective, and I was simply saying "25 votes for, YES , she deserves a settlement".
I feel otherwise, and I was wondering what others felt. Am I being unreasonable?????? I am honestly asking for opinions. Perhaps I am selling my side of the story too much, I guess. I just wanted some input to whether everyone feels that I am being fair or unfair. I can't sell the house. I WILL have it appraised. However, wife has said it many times, she feels she deserves more than a pat on the back to walk away. I get that, but if there is no equity in the house, which I have tried to prove to her with the market value assessment from 2 real estate agents, SHOULD I feel obligated to hand her money? That is the part I am struggling with. I guess it is more of a moral question than a mathematical one. Does wife deserve money to leave, even though there is no mutual asset to pull this money from?
The other thing I was asking for suggestions about is, how is the best way to approach her in regards to coming to an agreement. Wife and I are on totally different pages. How do I bridge that uncommon ground without causing conflict?
I honestly and truly do wish to approach this fairly, and without emotion driving anything. I am not trying to manipulate or control the financial figures or the situation. I am only wishing to do what is right and what is fair, for wife and for me.
I guess I am afraid of raising conflict and putting my wife, daughter and I in a position that we end up in a battle. That's scary, but it is a battle I would fight to keep myself from being taken advantage of.
You have expressed your concern & fear of being "taken advantage of" probably more than anyone else around. Yes, we get it. Enough already. You live and choose based on your feelings of anger & fear. Not a great life, and all self inflicted.
fter this is all over, I need to consider MY future, and the future I can have with my daughter. I am not just going to roll over because W feels she needs X amount of dollars, based on nothing, so she can buy a new house and move on with no financial worries. In a perfect world that would be great. In our world, that is not reality.
again??
I didn't intend on my comment being a cheap shot towards 25. I apologize if it came off that way. I simply meant that I knew that 25 felt that wife worked and put money into our home, and therefore she deserved something in return. I appreciate the perspective, and I was simply saying "25 votes for, YES , she deserves a settlement".
I said if your offer continues to be "nothing", she has no incentive to move, financially speaking. She has nothing to lose by fighting for more...more than nothing....also I believe living near your family BUT not in the marital home, has been a nightmare for HER, (which you totally overlook.)
Also, while you say neither of you has any equity, Only YOU get to remain in the marital home, while she incurs debt just to live.
She suffers way more than you do in terms of lifestyle change. Does that make this "more fair" to you?
A man who wants to pay nothing for his child, or wife, because he earns what his wife used to earn...I guess I don't know what your financial plan was. Seems it was all YOUR family's benefit (not your wife/child family, but your mom's).
I asked you what you believe your w would be entitled to if this happened two decades from now. You still have not said...I suppose all the equity would belong to your mom?
I feel otherwise, and I was wondering what others felt. Am I being unreasonable?????? I am honestly asking for opinions. Perhaps I am selling my side of the story too much, I guess. I just wanted some input to whether everyone feels that I am being fair or unfair. I can't sell the house. I
THAT ^^^IS YOUR PROBLEM, RIGHT? If you could sell it, that would be that.
WILL have it appraised. However, wife has said it many times, she feels she deserves more than a pat on the back to walk away. I get that, but if there is no equity in the house, which I have tried to prove to her with the market value assessment from 2 real estate agents, SHOULD I feel obligated to hand her money? That is the part I am struggling with. I guess it is more of a moral question than a mathematical one. Does wife deserve money to leave, even though there is no mutual asset to pull this money from?
The other thing I was asking for suggestions about is, how is the best way to approach her in regards to coming to an agreement. Wife and I are on totally different pages. How do I bridge that uncommon ground without causing conflict?
I honestly and truly do wish to approach this fairly, and without emotion driving anything. I am not trying to manipulate or control the financial figures or the situation. I am only wishing to do what is right and what is fair, for wife and for me.
Let me just say this:
Holding onto your anger to hurt or punish someone else,
Is like lighting yourself on fire,
To get smoke in their eyes....
It does You no good.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
If I remember right, your family financed the house and you and your W were paying it off. I also remember you saying you haven't been making any payments towards the house since your W left and chose to live elsewhere. What a great way to make sure that there is no equity in the house... The interest keeps accumulating while the principle remains unchanged but the balance sheet keeps getting tipped...
Interesting.
“Things turn out best for the people who make the best out of the way things turn out” ― Art Linkletter
Didn't you say your W doesn't work? I don't see how you can get out of this.
Quote:
Furthermore, the house has zero equity, which is what I have been expressing over and over.
Ad nauseum. I guess you're hoping if you say it enough we'll start believing it. Here's the problem, you don't own the house. The business does. You are part owner in the business which means your W is too. I'll tell you something about judges, they are smart and they are wise. Your argument that sounds brilliant and well-crafted to you will crumble like toothpicks under the judge's scrutiny because they are IMPARTIAL. They won't nod and tell you how right you are like your friends and family and lawyer do. He is going to want to know the value of the BUSINESS, not the house. He is going to determine what your percentage of that is, and what your W is entitled to. He is not going to care that you don't have any savings and don't think you can afford to compensate your W, because he is looking only at what he deems as a fair and equitable settlement. If it's 40k or 100k, how you pay that is your problem, not his. I'm just saying all of this because I have a feeling you are going to get smoked in court and you'll never see it coming if you don't heed our warnings.
AS... His W now sells insurance... Remember how SP was beefing about the nerve W had about contacting him regarding selling insurance to friends and family? It was part of his validating his W's feelings, I think.
“Things turn out best for the people who make the best out of the way things turn out” ― Art Linkletter
I guess I am afraid of raising conflict and putting my wife, daughter and I in a position that we end up in a battle. That's scary, but it is a battle I would fight to keep myself from being taken advantage of.
You have expressed your concern & fear of being "taken advantage of" probably more than anyone else around. Yes, we get it. Enough already. You live and choose based on your feelings of anger & fear. Not a great life, and all self inflicted.
Sorry, 25. I was asked the question. I simply answered.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
after this is all over, I need to consider MY future, and the future I can have with my daughter. I am not just going to roll over because W feels she needs X amount of dollars, based on nothing, so she can buy a new house and move on with no financial worries. In a perfect world that would be great. In our world, that is not reality.
again??
Really????
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I said if your offer continues to be "nothing", she has no incentive to move, financially speaking. She has nothing to lose by fighting for more...more than nothing....also I believe living near your family BUT not in the marital home, has been a nightmare for HER, (which you totally overlook.)
Okay, I am going to say this for the UMTEENTH time. my offer to her was HALF of my retirement, HALF of our belongings, CHILD SUPPORT and ALL of the money I had in the bank. My offer wasn't, "nothing". Please stop saying that. And, I don't overlook her living conditions. I am sure that is tough. However, it was solely her choice to do so. I didn't ask her to move there. I didn't force her out the door. What exactly do you believe my role is in this?
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Also, while you say neither of you has any equity, Only YOU get to remain in the marital home, while she incurs debt just to live.
She suffers way more than you do in terms of lifestyle change. Does that make this "more fair" to you?
I will continue to live in the home. My business (and family) will still continue to pay for the balance of the original loan, which is upside down for all accounts if we were able to sell the house and pay off the ORIGINAL loan, that would roughly have a balance of maybe 167,000ish??? The house itself markets for about 150,000-155,000. Please remember, the business is paying the interest on the whole house! Wife and I were just making payments to my Mom at zero percent interest. Yes, wifes lifestyle will change. That is HER choice and a consequence of that choice. My life will change as well.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
A man who wants to pay nothing for his child, or wife, because he earns what his wife used to earn...I guess I don't know what your financial plan was. Seems it was all YOUR family's benefit (not your wife/child family, but your mom's).
I don't follow you here, but I will support my daughter. I have since the day she was born. I will continue. I hope that wife will hold up her end of the bargain, because she is also responsible for supporting our child, and she always has been. Wife is not disabled, hasn't been a SAHM, has the skill and education to work. The burden of support should lay on both of us. To be clear, I also supported my wife for years and years, and she supported me. We were in marriage together. But, At what point does a wife become an Ex-wife and the support stops in your mind, 25? Should I give her all of my money until I die? Would that make you feel I am "fair"? In your formula, wouldn't it only be fair of her to continue supporting me as well? I am not saying "her", I mean her mom, her family, her dads job, business, whatever? Shouldn't they owe me something for all the years of dedication and support I played in the marriage?
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I asked you what you believe your w would be entitled to if this happened two decades from now. You still have not said...I suppose all the equity would belong to your mom?
I did answer your question. It is a few posts back, if you would like to review it.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I feel otherwise, and I was wondering what others felt. Am I being unreasonable?????? I am honestly asking for opinions. Perhaps I am selling my side of the story too much, I guess. I just wanted some input to whether everyone feels that I am being fair or unfair. I can't sell the house.
THAT ^^^IS YOUR PROBLEM, RIGHT?/ If you could sell it, that would be that.
If I could sell it, there WOULD BE NO MONEY LEFT OVER!!!!!!
Originally Posted By: MrCAS
SP...
If I remember right, your family financed the house and you and your W were paying it off. I also remember you saying you haven't been making any payments towards the house since your W left and chose to live elsewhere. What a great way to make sure that there is no equity in the house... The interest keeps accumulating while the principle remains unchanged but the balance sheet keeps getting tipped...
Interesting.
No, absolutely NOT! I have tried my best to explain this since the beginning. Perhaps I just don't have the communication skills. The house situation is like THIS----> Wife and I financed the construction loan, prime plus one interest rate. The loan was for 170k. We paid on that loan for about 4 years, got the principle down to 168k. Then, our family business was refinancing a previous loan. The bank asked us to include the house into the business loan for certain reasons. Actually, the bank demanded it or they would not be able to refi the business loan. From all perspectives, money wise, it made total sense. It lowered the interest on the house AND the business and consolidated everything into one loan. At that point, wife and I continued to make payments to my mother, INTEREEST FREE. My mom and our business was incurring the interest payments. Wife and I were given a HUGE Gift in the regard. We were effectively able to pay directly towards the principal. Therefore, we brought our responsibility from 168k, down to 152K in a very short time. The business and my Mom did my wife and I a HUGE favor, not other way to see that. So here we are today. Our business and my mom are still paying on that original loan. Wife and I worked that zero interest "family" loan down to 152k. Now here is the kicker. The market value on the house is about the same, roughly 150-155k......I hope that make sense now?
Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Didn't you say your W doesn't work? I don't see how you can get out of this.
No. I did not say that. She does work. She is an insurance agent, does Mary K and also cleans houses. All combined, she puts in a part time effort, maybe 25 hours a week. JUST before BD she stopped working with child care in our home, which she had been doing for nearly 6 years.
Originally Posted By: MrCAS
AS... His W now sells insurance... Remember how SP was beefing about the nerve W had about contacting him regarding selling insurance to friends and family? It was part of his validating his W's feelings, I think.
I was beefing about wife wanting MY business insurance policy to be offered to her, a very high premium, high liability policy I might add. It is not something I would entrust to ANY agent on his or her first day on the job. In actuality, I have since referred her to friends and family members, two of which have purchased vehicle policies through her. I believe they are her only two clients at this time.
You have some great people giving you advice on here yet your are argumentative with every one. Forget about the house, the money, your STBXW for a minute and ask yourself the following questions:
What work have I done on myself?
How have I grown?
How do I stop being so angry and argumentative?
It is time to get back to your DB principles and work on yourself.
M 46 H 44 D 12 S 8 M 9 T 11 BD 2/15/13 "Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13 Agree we are 'healing' 7/13 Definitely Piecing 9/13
You know what, You are absolutely right, LTH. I will no longer argue about facts or figures regarding my divorce. It's not that big of a deal. Arguing is a problem I have had my entire life. I still need to work on just letting go of it.
Everyone, I apologize. You all have your own perspectives and that is fine. I want to thank you for contributing to my growth and helping me along my path. I DO need a 2x4 up side the head sometimes.
