Figuring out the old and new life

[ForeverYoung]

Hi FY!

My H was a lot like your W in low self-confidence. We took an expensive personality survey a few years ago and he came out a 1 or 2 in confidence on a scale of 10. So I always felt part of his MLC was learning to be a natural, confident person. It wasn't just about running away from me.

Wow, I must have missed or forgotten this in your sitch. W had/has low self confidence/esteem too. In his books Andrew Marshall refers to a period some go through during life transitions he calls "Personal Reinvention". This sounds like it would describe your H, since you said he's now like a different person. What level would you say his confidence level is at now?

Do you thank the girls he hung out with for helping him get there?

He seemed to methodically plan and proceed with D with uncanny focus.

For mine, planning D just seems too much trouble, especially when life at home is pretty comfortable. (like yours, right T^2?) Like I've said many times, it seems I may tire of this before her.

So..just to tell you I've had the same fears and your W and my H share a lot of similarities. I have actually worried about your sitch in the middle of the night b/c you don't have kids and that is a different factor. Would she want to run more b/c there are no ties to kids?

Awww, that's sweet. It seems to reason that no kids means no additional reason to stay.

But W has stayed. She is growing. She is asking herself who she is and who she wants to be.

And I think...just like they come to the realization one day that their spouse is the problem...one day they will come to the realization that their spouse is part of the solution!

There can always be hope for a better M. That's why I'm here... not to make a better me without W. (although that may be a side benefit)

[reachingHigher]

FY, you are really on to a concept here that makes sense. Not that it would help anyone put an end to limbo any earlier, but helps us have understanding and compassion for our wayward spouse.

I never mentioned my H's low self confidence too much here. The other symptoms of MLC were overpowering to deal with and that was his problem, not mine.

But it makes me think...if they are telling us they never got to live all these years...maybe it's true! But not b/c of us! It's b/c of their own fears of living life to the fullest. We just happened to be alongside of them, enabling them along the way without meaning to? They were attracted to a stronger, more confident person (us) and now they want that for themselves, finally.

It would make sense in my sitch with my H's dependence on alcohol. It makes him feel less shy and more confident. And yes, haha! I think the girls have given him a taste of what is "out there". They are mostly messed up and broken too. But he could be macho with them. And he had something they didn't have -- a loving spouse at home. Seems like it would boost his confidence more! Idk.

Also, looking back, H said to me "overnight" wasn't fast enough for D. But after I called the IRS to try to push it through before the end of last year (having to do with his filing status), he balked and kept delaying it. So what he said wasn't true. It was only his feelings to get rid of M.

Complicated stuff, huh?

In answer to your question, H is much more confident now. He even describes himself that way. I see it but I think he still falters in the presence of other confident, successful men. He still doesn't feel he is equal to that, but I see him growing in that area. I think he doesn't "need" people around that are messed up any more to feel confident, but he still isn't high on the scale. I would say he has risen to 5 out of 10 on a scale. Not sure.

My H is really into golf now. After I got him a lesson with a pro for his birthday in May, he has scheduled 5 more lessons for himself, bought a nice set of clubs with special grips and made for the taller man, and he plays or goes to the club often, several times a week. I think this is helping him build self-esteem and glad he accepted my little nudge in that direction.

[Mtnman]

I have no doubt lack of confidence/self-esteem is part of my Ws issues that she's having to move beyond.

[ForeverYoung]

FY, you are really on to a concept here that makes sense. Not that it would help anyone put an end to limbo any earlier, but helps us have understanding and compassion for our wayward spouse.

Agreed, but for me, it does offer more hope that they will in fact work through it eventually, instead of being "stuck" forever. It's like they realize what the problem is and are working on it. Some never even figure out the problem.

I never mentioned my H's low self confidence too much here. The other symptoms of MLC were overpowering to deal with and that was his problem, not mine.

But it makes me think...if they are telling us they never got to live all these years...maybe it's true! But not b/c of us! It's b/c of their own fears of living life to the fullest. We just happened to be alongside of them, enabling them along the way without meaning to? They were attracted to a stronger, more confident person (us) and now they want that for themselves, finally.

I know in our case the enabling part is true. It became easy for me to do less with friends and hang with her all the time. Like I said, stagnation. I was ok with it because I had hobbies and sports and such... her not so much. I remember her telling me once, years before BD, "You have things you're passionate about, I have nothing!

So, GAL is important for both of us. Bring some outside freshness into the M... even though right now, it seems she couldn't care less about my activities. It's all about her. That's ok for now.

It would make sense in my sitch with my H's dependence on alcohol. It makes him feel less shy and more confident. And yes, haha! I think the girls have given him a taste of what is "out there". They are mostly messed up and broken too.

W sometimes mentions how messed up everyone in her group is. Maybe a "the grass isn't greener" reality check? Even so, I know she feels some are living "the wonderful happiness life" she wants.

In answer to your question, H is much more confident now. He even describes himself that way. I see it but I think he still falters in the presence of other confident, successful men. He still doesn't feel he is equal to that, but I see him growing in that area. I think he doesn't "need" people around that are messed up any more to feel confident, but he still isn't high on the scale. I would say he has risen to 5 out of 10 on a scale. Not sure.

W NEVER thought she measured up to others, Not since grade school. I've spent my life trying to build her up, with little success. Seems they have to do it on their own. Of course this doesn't mean they have to end a good M to do so.

[Whiterose]

WOW this resonates. H has little/no self confidence and would look to me to be his everything. He would also search for different hobbies and activities that would interest him but he would always lose interest quickly and with each failed attempt would slip further into depression.

Everyone else always got to do the job of their dreams, travelled, went here or there, did this or that and he never could (when in reality he could just never had the gumption to do it or to stick to it)

I guess this seems to be another piece of the MLC puzzle.

[uRworthy]

Hello, my friend. First of all, thanks for the warning about the class you're taking. No drinks for me when reading your thread. LOL!

FY, I wanted to say something about you feeling as if your w never loved you. I think if you look inside you know that isnt true. You were there all those years. You would have felt that. So, put that thought out of your head.

I think it speaks volumes that your w is still there. If she really wanted a new life, she would go out and get one and nothing would stop her.

Not all MLCers are nasty, not all spend money, etc.

I do see small movement on her part. I think she is processing a lot. I think she is finding herself and her self esteem. She has years and years of stuff to work though. And it really is too bad she wont talk to anyone.

Fy, you will know, without a single doubt when you are done.But I think it is time for you to start to think about maybe doing something a bit different. Not sure what, or even when, but, it is something you might want to chew on.

[ForeverYoung]

I was reading an article on MLC in a marriage. The article itself was nothing new if you've been doing your homework, but at the end there were reader comments. Most of them were your typical, my spouse distanced themselves from me, and is now a monster/alien, doing all the things MLC'ers tend to do. But this one was from a wife who was becoming aware that she was in MLC. I found it interesting enough to post here:

After reading these articles, I see things in a different light... I am the one in turmoil and in crisis... I am feeding him all the same things that I see here.. I need space, freedom, time to be/find me... after 13 years of marriage I am smothered.... and the more he tries to talk to me about things, the more determined I become in my decision to stick to my guns and separate for a time being.... I can't think straight when he is here and resent having him question what I am doing... and I see it is killing him to leave our house... and it is backing him into a corner and making him want to end things..... how can i get him to see that this is not him, this is all me.... I can't stop this, and I am going crazy.... and I just need him to understand and be patient....... I don;t know what will happen in the end but I can;t stop the cycle right now....... absolutley crazy right now.....

I wonder how many of our spouses have, or will eventually have, any realization that "this is not him (her), this is all me.... " ?

I sometimes think my W is starting to get there.

In the mean time, all we can do is give 'em space, cut loose and focus on our own journey.

[Mtnman]

Same here FY. Tonight at supper w says to me and the boys, "MIL kept me (w) under her thumb growing up, that's why I'm crazy right now." It was at least a move away from me.

[RosaLinda]

Wow thanks FY. Reading that woman's letter ripped my heart out. How sad that she can almost recognize the pain and destruction she is causing. Realization is fluttering right outside her line of vision like a moth, but she just cannot quite see it clearly enough. 

She says she sees the pain her H is in and sees that she is driving him away, but cannot stop. She resents him yet wants him to be patient. How sad and enlightening to read her thoughts, thanks. 

[Ambivalent]

Hi,
I'm fairly new, going on our fourth month of separation. This topic strikes a cord, twice.

The first about self esteem. My H has and still surrounds himself with "friends" that are either 15 to 20 years his junior, or those whom are not in his field or comes anywhere near him in what men value as success. I've thought for years, that it was odd, but have come to the conclusion that they boost his ego, or he needs them to feel good about himself. Kind of the BMOC syndrome. He even has to keep in contact with guys in high school who were the "jocks" or popular crowd. All who have their own issues with self-esteem. They didn't come to our wedding but he still golfs with them...It is rather sad, if one was looking at it from the outside. All of them either divorced, some more than once, or are in situations that are not to be desired. One remarried and actually told him not to divorce, it was too expensive. That one lost quite a bit of property and capital, but he just remarried. It will be interesting to see how long this one lasts.

The other chord struck is my husband saying almost verbatim what the woman wrote. " It is about me ", and "I find myself needing to leave before I do something that will ruin what friendship we have ". " It is about the next 30 years ". " I'm not where I should be " (this one was about finances). He is being introspective, but much was directed about our marriage in the first month , what he didn't want, but doesn't know what he DOES want!

Now he compliments me, NEVER did that during our marriage under roof. Came to court with me, for support? I don't know why I didn't ask. Just emailed he wishes me fun at my dance class last night, and good day at class (school). Speaks of buying me a new car, and what was I interested in? I just lost ( stolen ?) my cell and he had it replaced within 24 hours . So my spouse to date, there's still time, hasn't been nasty or gone crazy with money.
But I still see no end in site. He hasn't discussed relationship, I don't bring it up. Yes it is KILLING me to not ask questions! My birthday is coming up here in September. Who knows what will happen or NOT !

Just saying the topic does resonate, self-esteem/ and it's about him. He does see the havoc he created, the hurt/pain has caused . But can't stop seeking to find happiness. He wants to work on him, not marriage, but wants to put himself first. Because as you all probably have heard, the MLC has put everyone else's needs ahead of their own. Even though they forgot about all the times they golfed during the week and weekends. Played sports on teams, had boys night out twice a week...oopsie...that's MY husband!