Suckerpunch, moving ahead one way or another!

[25yearsmlc]

I am not being hypocritical. Not by a long shot.

I came home to find my house empty.

She took all the furniture save for a couple of things she didn't want... Her and OM went through my LP collection and he took what he wanted... There was piss crust all over the outer bowls of both toilets... There was mold rings on the inside of the bowls... there was mold growing in the sink.... there was dried dog vomit and feces on the wood floors... all the boxes of my stuff from Niagara Falls are gone... The basement was full of trash... the refrigerator was filthy... there were cobwebs in every room... the lawn hadn't been mowed all year... There was a can full of dog crap in the yard... there was even more than I feel like getting into here.

Other than asking for the LPs and some other stuff (I got one LP and most of the other stuff) I said absolutely NOTHING. Not a word.

Why? Because there was no point. She did or didn't do whatever. Getting angry with her about would have solved nothing.

You did not "simply ask" your W anything. You demanded.

IMO, opinion, you come here looking for justification for your actions and absolution for poor behavior.

I can't control things that make me angry. I can and do control how I react to them, though.

What would I do if my W came here with her BF? I would leave. I would go somewhere else. It takes a bigger man to walk away than to get into his face... to make demands... to make threats. WHy don't you find somewhere else to be that night? Go bowling... golfing... go out of town... Why set yourself up for a confrontation?

You are constantly contradicting yourself. First you have an anger issue and then you don't... You don't need anger management then you don't and then you do...

Pick a course, SP, and stay on the path.

Great post. I want to say more SP but you spend so much time telling me I am "wrong", instead of just disagreeing, I often wonder what you have learned or changed deep down.

Sounds so often like the old you, I guess you are very torn.

You want your pain to end, and I get that. The problem is that you think she is doing things TO you. But this isn't really true. She has moved on and you have not. She is Not the cause of your pain, IMO. You feel tremendous regret. That quickly converts into fury on your end, or self pity. Somehow your feelings of guilt are SO uncomfortable for you,

and anger is so engrained in the way you were raised, you seem to prefer anger to guilt.
Process that ^^^^^ statement before you ignore it or tell me I am "wrong" again.

I would also add the book "How to Win Friends & Influence People" to your book list. Your fondness for arguing does not mean you are effective at persuading people. Bullying is not persuading--just a general observation there.

When you are honest, which you seem only able to be a few hours at a time because I think we both know You got yourself here...You know You must change.

You must stop the pain you are in, FROM WITHIN & paradoxically, by doing internal AND external work.

When you finally GAL for real (so far that topic which i have repeatedly raised,
remains almost totally unaddressed by you,)

and so of course you are Not detached. That is the external work you simply MUST do. Stop deflecting the focus off your work.


Finally, you have not addressed the settlement issue in a normal or healthy OR fair way.. You skipped over my questions!!! Interesting....

if your offer to your wife is still nothing, good luck getting her to move.

Under your paradigm, her contributions were always worthless in the event She chooses to leave. You could treat her anyway You wanted...and if she dares to "end the m" or "destroy the family" it's all her fault and even if it is Not her fault, because she dared to leave, she deserves nothing.

I I asked you this before, but you ignored it...
I said--

"if you were m another two decades and she personally financed or hand built an addition to the "family home"

(which is how she saw the home, and how YOU viewed it, UNTIL SHE LEFT...then it became your "other" family's home) so

If she were to leave 25 years from now,

under your paradigm, she'd still get nothing --- because it would NEVER be HER home!

That stinks for her. I reject it.

You let her believe it was Hers and yours. I think you saw it that way, too...until she dared leave you.

If you had not, if she knew it was YOUR family's business and never going to belong in any way to her,

why on earth would SHE DONATE her savings to your family's business???


Pay her something or realize she has No incentive to leave the property.

You go on and on about the "graciousness" of your family. A family you admit taught you to see things negatively, the glass is always half empty...

But hey, You can thank your family for, effectively paying your child support for you by "allowing" her to have to leave the home she lived in while m, forced into a studio apt that had been used for storage. Where you see a gracious favor, i just wonder why it was she who had to go there and not you...

I think financially it has helped you but you refuse to admit that. I think the minute she leaves that place,,YOU will be writing a check, IMO.

If you get out of paying her ANY CS and

she has to fully support herself and Your d,, THEN

If i were you, I would warn any women you date in the future, that they will always be tenants of your family, never owners...BUT you want them to care for the place and pay for improvements, as if it is or will be, theirs too...

Very appealing. Very fair! Right?

[swoop]

Here is something I am wondering about. Should I let wife know that I am going to follow through with the divorce process? Or, should I simply have her served? I don't know which way is the best approach....Email, phone call, Just surprise her? Any input is appreciated. What should I say, or should I not say anything at all?

Thanks in advance.

[LBH_LC]

Speaking as someone who has been on the receiving end, no warning stings. A lot.

[MrCAS]

Here is something I am wondering about. Should I let wife know that I am going to follow through with the divorce process? Or, should I simply have her served? I don't know which way is the best approach....Email, phone call, Just surprise her? Any input is appreciated. What should I say, or should I not say anything at all?

I think it would depend on how you want it perceived... and the motive.

If you want to be a dick an want maximum impact and shock value because you just want to cause her pain, just do it. It should be good for a couple of good laughs around the pool over beers, I wouldn't give it a second thought.

However, if you doing to move ahead and want to come across a man of class, honor, and dignity, I would meet her for coffee on neutral turf.

I would explain why it is time to get the process going from your perspective. No finger pointing... no name calling... nothing negative.

The man you want to be is going to determine what you want to do.

[swoop]

I want to say more SP but you spend so much time telling me I am "wrong", instead of just disagreeing, I often wonder what you have learned or changed deep down.

Sounds so often like the old you, I guess you are very torn.

You want your pain to end, and I get that. The problem is that you think she is doing things TO you. But this isn't really true. She has moved on and you have not. She is Not the cause of your pain, IMO. You feel tremendous regret. That quickly converts into fury on your end, or self pity. Somehow your feelings of guilt are SO uncomfortable for you,

and anger is so engrained in the way you were raised, you seem to prefer anger to guilt.
Process that ^^^^^ statement before you ignore it or tell me I am "wrong" again.

I would also add the book "How to Win Friends & Influence People" to your book list. Your fondness for arguing does not mean you are effective at persuading people. Bullying is not persuading--just a general observation there.

When you are honest, which you seem only able to be a few hours at a time because I think we both know You got yourself here...You know You must change.

You must stop the pain you are in, FROM WITHIN & paradoxically, by doing internal AND external work.

When you finally GAL for real (so far that topic which i have repeatedly raised,
remains almost totally unaddressed by you,)

and so of course you are Not detached. That is the external work you simply MUST do. Stop deflecting the focus off your work.

I said you were wrong, rather than disagreeing with you based on some of the things you stated being COMPLETELY off base. Some things were valid, some were way off in left field. While I will agree with you that I am struggling to GAL, I am making a conscious effort. I get out as often as possible, to mingle and spend time with friends, both old and new. I met a new person just yesterday. We are making plans to hang out again. I went to a BBQ this past weekend, met about 6 new people. I have also reconnected with many OLD friends that I have not seen for years and years. I invited a roommate into my home, and he is exposing me to even more new people and activities. Also keep in mind, this is my busy season. I work 7 days a week, with long days. Hopefully in the next month, I will have even more free time to spend with new and old friends alike.

Finally, you have not addressed the settlement issue in a normal or healthy OR fair way.. You skipped over my questions!!! Interesting....

This isn't a normal situation. Our home is sitting on property that WE do not own. It is wrapped up into a commercial piece of property, and it is owned by a corporation. Regardless, the house has NO EQUITY. Those are facts. It simply is what it is. On top of that, wife and I haven't made a single home payment in almost a year. THAT is not normal either. This whole scenario is not like a typical husband/wife relationship.I didn't intend to skip over your question. I thought my explanation about the house having no equity was fairly obvious.

if your offer to your wife is still nothing, good luck getting her to move.

Under your paradigm, her contributions were always worthless in the event She chooses to leave. You could treat her anyway You wanted...and if she dares to "end the m" or "destroy the family" it's all her fault and even if it is Not her fault, because she dared to leave, she deserves nothing.

I I asked you this before, but you ignored it...
I said--

"if you were m another two decades and she personally financed or hand built an addition to the "family home"

(which is how she saw the home, and how YOU viewed it, UNTIL SHE LEFT...then it became your "other" family's home) so

If she were to leave 25 years from now,

under your paradigm, she'd still get nothing --- because it would NEVER be HER home!

That stinks for her. I reject it.

You let her believe it was Hers and yours. I think you saw it that way, too...until she dared leave you.

If you had not, if she knew it was YOUR family's business and never going to belong in any way to her,

why on earth would SHE DONATE her savings to your family's business???

I completely agree with what you are saying. If we built and owned a house together, and the time came to split the sheets, it only makes sense that we split the money....right? Well, what if there is no money left over? What if the house is worth what is owed? I think that is where you and I disagree, 25. Our investment, meaning the actual time and money we put into our "home" is worth nothing. We owe 152K on the loan. The house itself markets for about 150-155k, not including the property. We only own the actual structure. Therefore, There is no money left over for us to split. It is a push. The business will continue to pay for it until it is paid off, because the business has ownership of the house. It has for 3 years since the loan was taken over.....that doesn't mean that wife or myself get a paycheck because "TODAY" we decide we want out.

Pay her something or realize she has No incentive to leave the property.

I have offered her half of my retirement, half of our belongings, I signed over her car note, I offered 300 bucks a month in child support and I was willing to give her every dollar (albeit not much, maybe a couple thousand) That I had in the bank. She said, verbatim, "THAT'S A JOKE!"

You go on and on about the "graciousness" of your family. A family you admit taught you to see things negatively, the glass is always half empty...

But hey, You can thank your family for, effectively paying your child support for you by "allowing" her to have to leave the home she lived in while m, forced into a studio apt that had been used for storage. Where you see a gracious favor, i just wonder why it was she who had to go there and not you...

The apartment is actually quite nice. Air conditioned, nicely appointed, very stylish. I lived there for many years and had friends that were jealous of my place. It's not a dinghy storage room by any stretch of the imagination. She chose to live there. Actually, she showed up with a friend one day, moved a bunch of her stuff into her car and never came back. She stopped paying ANY of our bills that very day. There was no discussion. She just did what she chose to do. Up to that point, we were sharing the home part time with each other to provide a stable environment for daughter. Wife expressed that she didn't like moving her clothes and things back and forth from house to apartment, so....she did what SHE wanted to do.

I think financially it has helped you but you refuse to admit that. I think the minute she leaves that place,,YOU will be writing a check, IMO.

If you get out of paying her ANY CS and

she has to fully support herself and Your d,, THEN

I completely agree. It has saved me money, her money and allowed us to have more time with daughter on the property she is familiar with.

If i were you, I would warn any women you date in the future, that they will always be tenants of your family, never owners...BUT you want them to care for the place and pay for improvements, as if it is or will be, theirs too...

Very appealing. Very fair! Right?

I would warn ANY person that there are no financial guarantees in life. You don't get that,25. If the house was worth HUGE money and there was equity in it. I would do whatever I could to see that wife got her fair portion. For instance, lets say you and I went partners on buying a bunch of lottery tickets. The drawing comes up, and we don't win. That's unfortunate, but would you feel obligated to pay me back my investment, PLUS INTEREST? Think about that one for a while and get back to me.

[swoop]

I thought about it, and the opertunity presented itself. I decided to let wife know what my intentions were, that I was moving forward with the divorce. We had a 2 hour conversation, everything from financial, to past relationship, to her new relationship and everything in between. I told her how I felt and that I think this whole thing is not what it should be. She cried, but today I was able to stand strong and not shed a tear. She bitched and complained about the fact she deserves money to move on, but I stated my end. I think deep down she gets it. I told her I will let her know how the process goes with my attorney. I also expressed that I want to be as fair as possible, but I am also not going to jeopardize my own future to better hers. We are parting lives and moving on.

[25yearsmlc]

Given your past, I hope you will consider the possibility that your perception or feelings

About what is fair, May well Not be accurate. Certainly there will be disagreement.

I noticed you ignore questions -
When you think the real answers don't reflect well on you.

Too bad for you.

[swoop]

25, I am definitely trying to see both perspectives here. I wish to be fair. I do understand why wife wanted to leave. She wasn't happy, couldn't find a solution for it, and she had to save herself. That is what she has expressed to me. However, that doesn't make money magically appear. It's unfortunate.

I didn't intentionally ignore your questions. I will (later today when I have more time to go back) respond to all of your questions. I really intend on becoming a better man, perfect? Probably not. But, I have made major gains, even though you feel that I am unchanged. I am not sure how I can prove that to you, or even if I should. I know for myself, and that is what is really important.

[swoop]

Here are my replies to your questions, 25. Again, I am not trying to argue with you. I am simply stating what I believe to be true in this instance. I respect your input GREATLY, but not always COMPLETELY.

So you wanted to bully or frighten her OM away and it failed...and turns out she has a legal argument. Seems to me she thought things out and raised some good points.

SP did you consider and reflect on ANY of what she said, or did you let your anger read the message for you?

I did not bully or frighten the OM. I've never spoken with him EVER. I've never sent him an email and never relayed a message to get back to him. I vented my frustration here, and I told wife he would not be allowed on my property. That is not what I consider bullying. It actually turns out that she has absolutely ZERO legal recourse. I verified that with the police, as well as my attorney during our meeting today. Seems to me that she doesn't have a leg to stand on, but seeks to start a whole lot of sh1t for very little reason. Why is it so important that OM comes to my backyard to socialize with his friends that he see numerous times in the course of a week? Take a day off or visit with them somewhere else. MY GAWD! This leads to the "reflection". I reflected on it alright. I believe it to be selfish, hurtful and disrespectful of her to even ASK, let alone push the issue by threatening me with legal aspects! That is what I reflected on, 25 and yes it did make me angry.

[Yes I agree with Love, that your w needs to move on but you have stubbornly refused to concede a single financial point about the settlement, right? What is your most recent "offer"? Nothing, still?

No I have conceded several things. My most recent offer was, half of my retirement, all of the money I have in the bank, reasonable child support and 1/2 of all our assets and belongings.

[You continue to believe her $28k direct contribution and being a sahm mom, caring for your d and being your wife were worthless, right? She "never worked", right?

No, I feel her contribution was equal to mine. Therefore, I want my 28k back as well. How do you feel I should approach her with this question? I mean fair is fair, right? I put a couple bucks into it as well. Where is my payoff? We worked together as a family unit for the benefit of us all. She worked as much as I did during our relationship, but in the end, we had nothing to show for it. Keep in mind,25, you and I are having a semantic argument here. I need to remind you that the house has no equity. THAT is the key factor here, not who it belongs to or what amount of effort or acknowledgment each party deserves for their efforts during the marriage. My family business is currently paying off the balance of 168k for the loan, on a house that has a market value of 155k. Don't you get that??????

What a horrible plan for her b/c in your eyes, if you two lived there for 24 more years and she personally put an addition on it, and or paid for it, you'd STILL say it was NONE of hers, right? It would still be YOUR family's, right?

Actually, the ownership, 24 years from now, would depend on what we did with it during that time. If we sold it, gave it away, let it go into foreclosure or signed it over to another party, I would say that it belonged to neither of us. If we owned it outright, I would say it belonged to us equally. We don't own it outright, so your scenario is purely speculative. The fact of OUR situation is, In the end the house is worth equal to what wife and I owe. The catcher is, the business owes a great deal more, because wife and I were allowed to pay on the house with no interest. The business paid the interest on a 168 dollar loan. Tell me how that is fair?....poor wife, right? My family really put the screws to her good, didn't they?

[What class are you taking? What NEW hobby do you have?
What organization or club did you join?
What new volunteer activities or campaigns are you working on?
What church group did you recently join?
What team did you join or coach?

What community theater did you volunteer to work with or audition for?
What NEW physical activity did you take up, that involved OTHER People?

What new friends have you made?

No new classes. One of my NEW hobbies is building and restoring Vintage bicycles. I didn't join any sanctioned organization, but I will be starting to attend a friends (newly acquainted) RC race track in the fall. I got involved with our Local High School Cheerleaders benefit auction. I am hosting seats and donating a benefit auction item, to support my daughter in mini cheer and give back to the community. I have not recently joined a church group, but a few months back I did. I spent once a week for 2 hours in a mens discussion group. I have not joined any new teams or groups. I am not an actor and have no interest in volunteering in theater. I started bicycling with friends this summer. I also got re-involved in motorcycles, and I have gone on a few rides with new friends. I recently met 6 people at a BBQ, one of which I am currently making plans with for this coming weekend. I also reconnected with someone I met for a very short time about 15 years ago. I would consider that a new friendship as well. Oh, and I also met a few new people while socializing with friends at a bar a few weeks ago. Not sure if that counts.

[swoop]

I followed through today with starting the divorce process. I contacted wife prior to meeting with my attorney, just to make sure this is truly what she wanted to do. She made it perfectly clear that this is the direction she wishes to take with her life. Now, I will have her served, which she openly knows about and accepts (after all, this was her wish), and we will have a short get together this week to discuss how we want to approach mediation.... The ball is rolling and it absolutely SUCKZ!