Lifestyle changes

[Lanzo]

Hey Rock,

The light is there in the distance, it's small, but it is more than the size of a pin hole and its getting bigger.

Lanzo

[Valeska19]

We Just disagree.

I believe I have the right to attend church without the distraction and emotional issues that my wife's presence brings. The church agrees and is willing to enforce that right. In fact, they state that this happens all the time and that rarely do divorced couples stay in the same church.

I highly doubt this is why the church is asking your wife not to come to church. If so - it is entirely the wrong reason.

Christians are supposed to keep each other accountable when it comes to their relationship with God. That should be the approach they are taking. Her relationship with you comes secondary.

But let me ask you this. You would rather send her away so you could be comfortable vs. allowing her to come to church and praying that God speaks to her there?

I know it's awfully hard.. but based off your beliefs.. your #1 concern should be her soul, not you marriage.. right?

I believe I have the right to go camping by myself. And it is unfair for my W to insert herself into my vacation.

Yes - or an opportunity.

I also believe that having these legitimate boundary's will eventually help my W and I heal our relationship and overcome some of the resentment we now feel.

How so?

I don't want my wife to "Disappear". And you are right that we need to work out a better relationship. I believe in forgiveness and I want to move past this into a relationship that truly supports our kids.

What does forgiveness look like to you?

I need boundaries though. The primary reason I filed for D is to get some legitimate boundaries in place. I felt like I needed legal protection (financial, custody) and I needed to force a legal physical seperation.

Yes boundaries are necessary.. but I think maybe you could work on how you express them.

Remember they are about you - not her. So they shouldn't be accusatory.

I'm not really sure you are setting them up in the correct way. They are coming across as punishment which is not what they are for.

If your w could go and have a nice time with you - would that be acceptable?

I don't think I will ever have a decent relationship with my W again without these boundaries. I have tried the "act like you don't give a crap if she's around." approach and it doesn't work for me.

What do you mean by that?

[RockJC]

Val - I will try and answer your questions.

//Christians are supposed to keep each other accountable when it comes to their relationship with God. That should be the approach they are taking.//

We do not live in a small town. My W drives past a half dozen churches to get to ours. I am very active, she hardly attends. She just needs to find a different church. She can find God in lots of other places. The elders took the time to sit down with her, and to talk about her relationship with God. She rejected their counsil. I do care about her soul. I am not sure how ignoring what she is doing helps her with her relationship with god.

// an opportunity//
There is no opportunity. We are not reconciling. We need to seperate and get divorced. She is nowhere near ready to commit to a marriage and I can't live like this any longer.

//How so?//
She needs the freedom to persue her life, and I need to move forward with mine. She considers herself single, I consider myself married. This creates a natural conflict. When she is talking to men, or going out on dates, it is incredibly hurtful. She needs the freedom to persue her life, and I need the seperation to get away from the life she is persuing. With seperation, and time, I think our relationship will improve.

//What does forgiveness look like to you? // It means that the anger and resentment that I am currently harboring is gone. It means that I am able to go an hour, a morning, or a day without thinking about the hurt she has caused me. It means being able to openly talk to her again without the conversation degrading into an argument. It means having a civil, considerate relationship.

//If your w could go and have a nice time with you - would that be acceptable? // Yes. But she has shown tat she can't. She is completely inconsiderate of my feelings. She thinks nothing about talking to, or texting men openly. She has no inhibitions about taking men around my children or to church. She is downright rude to me. If she was considerate, then I wouldn't need the boundary. Asking her to find a different church is not a punishment, it is to protect my emotions.

//What do you mean by that? //
I am an emotional, sensitive person. My W has no sensitivity. The two don't mix. I need boundaries. She is constantly hurting me, and often, I don't even think she realizes it.

What is so wrong with her finding a different church, or taking the girls camping on her own without me. Why is this such an issue?

[RockJC]

Nobody is shuning her, or shaming her, or punishing her. She is simply being asked to worship somewhere else.

//You know how she would be shamed the most //
I am not interested in shaming her.

//Let her FEEL those eyes piercing her back//
It is a large church. I don't think anyone other than me and a handfull of other people would even notice. But I would. I would be focusing on her and feel very uncomfortable. Eventually, I would stop attending. Hoefully, over time, this will change. But today, this is how I feel. Somebody needs to change churches. Given the situation, I truly believe it should be her.

//You have that structure, you have that group, you have those marriage advocates. Dont push her away from them! allow her to be close to them. //
I am no longer trying to save my marriage. I am not trying to manipulate her, or control her. This is not about her. I want to move forward with my life and emotionally heal. To do that, I feel like I need some space.

[Valeska19]

Val - I will try and answer your questions.

//Christians are supposed to keep each other accountable when it comes to their relationship with God. That should be the approach they are taking.//

We do not live in a small town. My W drives past a half dozen churches to get to ours. I am very active, she hardly attends. She just needs to find a different church. She can find God in lots of other places. The elders took the time to sit down with her, and to talk about her relationship with God. She rejected their counsil. I do care about her soul. I am not sure how ignoring what she is doing helps her with her relationship with god.

So correct me if I am wrong - you both been going to that church for the same amount of time.. but because you are acting more "Christian" than your wife - you deserve to stay there vs. her?

You see it as ignoring - because you are making it about yourself. I'm not saying it wouldn't be difficult.. but you are putting your needs above the possibility of her relationship with God becoming right again.

I do not know that her going there will change her heart.. but I can tell you that by you kicking her out - it most definitely won't.

But it doesn't seem like you care that much about her heart anymore.

// an opportunity//
There is no opportunity. We are not reconciling. We need to seperate and get divorced. She is nowhere near ready to commit to a marriage and I can't live like this any longer.

Every thing in life is an opportunity JC. You act as because you guys aren't reconciling, there is nothing you can do.

Think bigger my friend. You are suffering from tunnel vision a little bit.

//How so?//
She needs the freedom to persue her life, and I need to move forward with mine. She considers herself single, I consider myself married. This creates a natural conflict. When she is talking to men, or going out on dates, it is incredibly hurtful. She needs the freedom to persue her life, and I need the seperation to get away from the life she is persuing. With seperation, and time, I think our relationship will improve.

Ok- so what I'm hearing is that you are creating boundaries and moving towards divorce quickly so you can create space and so you can heal?

How does a healed JC treat his wife?

//What does forgiveness look like to you? // It means that the anger and resentment that I am currently harboring is gone. It means that I am able to go an hour, a morning, or a day without thinking about the hurt she has caused me. It means being able to openly talk to her again without the conversation degrading into an argument. It means having a civil, considerate relationship.

The first part sounds good. But you may never be able to openly talk to her again. It may never mean a considerate relationship.

Keep the focus on you here. Did deeper. How does a JC who has forgiven his wife treat her? How does he talk to her?

//If your w could go and have a nice time with you - would that be acceptable? // Yes. But she has shown tat she can't. She is completely inconsiderate of my feelings. She thinks nothing about talking to, or texting men openly. She has no inhibitions about taking men around my children or to church. She is downright rude to me. If she was considerate, then I wouldn't need the boundary. Asking her to find a different church is not a punishment, it is to protect my emotions.

Go to my thread - look what OT wrote me as suggestions to how to tell my xw that our communication was triggering me. It's good stuff because it kept the focus on me.

Maybe you should try rewording the boundaries so they are actually about you.. not her.

Also - you are wrong that you wouldn't need boundaries. Healthy boundaries are needed always. Spouses with good marriage have boundaries. There are some great Christian books on the issues - you should check them out.

//What do you mean by that? // I am an emotional, sensitive person. My W has no sensitivity. The two don't mix. I need boundaries. She is constantly hurting me, and often, I don't even think she realizes it.

Unfortunately - you telling your wife that she is hurting you.. isn't going to stop it (as you are learning).

No one is saying to deny that you are emotional. But your emotions should not dictate your actions.

If so that's like saying - well I was angry - so that makes it okay that I said/did hurtful things in return.

Are you letting your emotions dictate your actions here? It would be understandable if so.

What is so wrong with her finding a different church, or taking the girls camping on her own without me. Why is this such an issue?

Because it's not fair to your wife for her to chose a different church.. and yes your wife does need to feel the natural consequences of her actions, but this is not it.

This is JC being uncomfortable that she is there - and rather than have faith in God that he has her there for a reason - or be strong enough that YOU remove yourself from hurtful situations... you make her do it.

Literally.. you don't ask.. you make her.

You want her to put in the work and she's just not.. so instead of seeing the benefits of you putting in the work - you have just given up.

You have let your hurt and anger win.

[SM34]

You are heading towards being the angry resentful divorced guy that no one likes to be around...

You are.huring. We get it. We are all right there with you. But read other people threads an compare them to the tone of your.posts. They just dont read the same. There is so much anger and resentment in your tone that it is frightening.

That level of anger will consume you and drag you down

[Lanzo]

I have so much to say in defence of the Rock that it is difficult for me to articulate in a concise manner.

However, the anger, hurt and resentment that he is feeling cannot be changed at the flick of a switch, its still very intense, its still very raw. So if by following some of his actions helps him to get to a better place then so be it. Time will help him to heal to be the better person, not enough time has passed.

Plus I am happy that he already has the idea of forgiveness, (something I still struggle with now).

It means that the anger and resentment that I am currently harboring is gone. It means that I am able to go an hour, a morning, or a day without thinking about the hurt she has caused me. It means being able to openly talk to her again without the conversation degrading into an argument. It means having a civil, considerate relationship.

So unfortunately, yes hurt and anger has won this battle, I would only be concerned if Rock allowed it to win the war and becomes that divorced guy no one wants to be around. I don’t think he will be that guy.


Lanzo

[RockJC]

I am sorry, but you guys are crazy. This is not that complicated. These are legitimate boundaries, and No, I am not going to be that "Angry divorced guy that nobody wants to be around".

She has made choices, and we are seperating lives. Finding a new church is just one step in that process. It is not the end of the world.

I am not going to bother responding to the rest, because I see little value in it.

[RockJC]

"It's not fair to your wife" - Priceless.

[SM34]

What we are saying is supposed to help you...not trying to irritate you. We want to help you SEE that you are allowing her actions to bring you down. And THAT is how you are losing the war, not the fact that she pulled the trigger on your marriage.

You have so much life to live. don't live it in anger.