In part, because I believe my wife may have felt I focused too much on myself (especially my career).
I haven't read your whole thread, this post just popped up and I read it. The quote above, do you see that focusing on your career isn't focusing on you?
Really think about it, why so much focus on your career. Go deep.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
My opinion, 180s are things you can do differently when your WAS expects "more of the same" bad stuff. Do you complain a lot, point blame, act negative? Whine? I'm not saying you do, but if you do then those would be great examples of 180s, because when you learn to correct these negative attributes and act differently, she will be surprised, and eventually if she comes to believe in the new you, she might wonder if she was wrong in her conviction that it just can't work out between you two.
So that's what 180's are for.
It's not literally exact opposite, more like making surprising positive changes that are real and lasting.
So maybe some of you could offer up some advice for me.
1. I think my wife feels I was too focused on myself. I have spent these past few months trying to offer my help and support, but I think it only comes across as pursuit (or too little too late?). Doesn't detaching reinforce her belief?
2. My wife feels I am controlling. I know that there are things I was particular about and I know now that was controlling. Without the same level of interaction, what do I do? I accepted her moving out as giving up control. I have carefully avoided asking her to do anything.
3. My wife feels I am manipulative. I am having a hard time with this one because it seems to me manipulative is premeditated and controlling. I did not treat our relationship like a game of chess, thinking several moves ahead. She has not offered any examples.
4. She feels I do not respect her. This is a hard one to swallow. I feel she has done a lot of mind reading on this one. I only ever praised her to colleagues, family, and friends. (I very deliberately did not want to put others into the middle of our relationship.) I was constantly impressed with her work ethic, professionalism, accomplishments, talents, and ability to learn new things. The only thing I can come up with is if I had a different opinion on something and she did not feel I agreed with her enough. Perhaps there are some women who can help me understand?
5. She says I do not trust her. I can honestly say that while I trusted her completely on some matters (our relationship for example), I did not trust her to always do something I asked, or worse, trust her with material things. My trust issues were based on what she actually said or what she did in the past. I felt like if it wasn't important to her, she did not feel like she needed to do what I asked or take care of material things the way I thought they should be taken care of. As an example, she was extremely careful and protective of her telescope, but she abused the heck out of her car (scrapes, scratches, curb rub on all four rims, etc.) I wanted to trust her and I asked her to work with me to help me overcome trust issues. She was all or nothing about it. Either I trusted her completely with everything or I didn't trust her at all. I feel like watching her go was an act of trust. I see now how unimportant material things are and I have told her she can take whatever she wants. What else would be a 180?
In part, because I believe my wife may have felt I focused too much on myself (especially my career).
I haven't read your whole thread, this post just popped up and I read it. The quote above, do you see that focusing on your career isn't focusing on you?
Really think about it, why so much focus on your career. Go deep.
Dealing with emotions and digging deep personally are really difficult. I can't say I have a lot of experience in these matters. I'm hoping therapy will help.
As for my career, I see my pursuit for recognition, accomplishment, and job security as distracting me from what was going on at home. I felt a lot of pressure to provide for her and provide for us so that we would have financial security. I defined myself by what I did. I know she feels the same way about herself. She doesn't think much of her job and feels that marrying me meant giving up a career. (I have tried to help her find something more rewarding, but she seems to have seen my efforts as controlling.)
For too long, I think I lived to work, but these last few years I have wanted more than ever to work to live. I don't think my wife heard my pleas in that regard.
Focusing on YOU is meant around here in terms of focusing on your own issues and getting to work fixing them, and not obsessing unattractively over what W did wrong or what W is doing or thinking now. Focusing on YOU means if you don't like being a career obsessed man figure out how to live into the priorities you really believe in your life. This is internal work, for you. You don't have to ignore, neglect, and dismiss her to do what DB means when it says to keep the focus on you. Do you see? Begin putting your emotional energy into being a man only a fool would leave.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Well the roller coaster continues. I did not initiate contact for the last week which effectively meant no contact. I'll admit to being an emotional mess over the weekend, but I kept it to myself.
Today I went into work with my eye on the big picture. When I saw my wife at work, she became quite chatty. She commented on how thin I looked and asked if I was even eating. (She says that very time I wear my new, slimmer shirt.) She asked about the cat. She showed me the pendant she was wearing and how she preferred a similar one she had in silver, but how it was tarnished. She talked about her ongoing health issues and how much it is costing her. Finally, she talked about some concerns about work. All of this in the span of maybe 15 minutes. I listened, empathized, and indicated I understood, all while keeping a positive attitude. Eventually she had to attend to something and I went to my office.
Later that same day, she came into my office to update me on some issues at work. Again, I listened, empathized, and I indicated I understood. I was even starting to feel good about myself.
By mid afternoon, I stopped by her desk to follow up on the work related issues and she chatted me up on how it was perplexing her. I said I looked forward to her solution. She asked me why it looked like I was heading out. I suppose I could have been mysterious, but I just let her know I was going to my regularly scheduled therapy. I would call it a good day, but it seems like there is so much further to go.
I haven't posted in a few days because, frankly, I don't know what to say. I see all the well intentioned support here, but it is disheartening to hear about the PA's, the years of holding out hope, and still seeing so many end in divorce. I see comments about the gift of time, but it doesn't feel like a gift. It feels like a loss that can never be recovered. I recently lost my father. My wife has several serious health problems that are not going away. What if something happens to one of us in this purgatory? Even MWD says you never know what can happen so do what you can now.
I know I can only work on myself, but those things I can do something about are things I already liked about myself: confident, self motivated, optimistic, respected, always trying new things. If anything, my current situation has robbed me of these things. I had a pretty fulfilling life: travel, hobbies, interests. The things I need to improve on are more about relationships: intent vs. perception, empathy, control, manipulation, selfishness, communication (verbal and physical). I am learning and doing all I can in this regard, but with so little contact with my wife, I don't feel like I have much opportunity to practice or to show her I've made real, lasting changes.
I know the WAW script says not to trust what she says and only half of what she does, but I also know some things about my wife and I can't help but wonder if she will go "off script." For instance, she can be determined and stubborn. I knew when she moved out, she would be unhappy, but then accept and become comfortable with her new normal. When she was unhappy, we had frequent contact. As she has started to accept, our contact become next to nothing. Having adjusted to her new reality, she has indicated she won't be coming back. She continues to distance herself by avoiding any unnecessary contact. All this despite acknowledging all the changes I have made. She says she, "Simply can't take the risk."
We are both going to individual counseling. Both are specialized in individual and marriage counseling. While mine has been clear that people can and do change and that everyone should consider doing all they can before calling it quits, hers seems only to enable her isolation, depression, and aggression.
I'm not sure what else to say. I continue to go to therapy. I continue to read self help books. I continue to make sure the few interactions I have with my wife are both different from the past and positive. But I still feel like I'm losing ground.
Well I had a brief anxiety attack today. I thought I was long past such things. I was working on keeping myself busy: yard work, reading, and watching a movie for the first time in months. Then all of the sudden, I became overwhelmed by grief. I started hyperventilating and sobbing. In particular, I was overcome by the thought of something happening to her. I dropped everything and got out of the house. A long walk later, I was past the worst of it. Hearing her voice or getting an email from her would have evaporated my anxiety, but I also know my need for communication would not help me reach my goal. It truly feels like purgatory. There's a door to escape, divorce, but I choose to remain. Nothing in my life has been harder.
Today she told me she's filed for divorce. In her mind, we're just bad for each other. She also thinks that filing means there is no turning back. I did my best to keep my composure, I told her I understood that is how she felt and that was her right. I told her I felt differently. Things have been going this direction for so long, I don't see how things can turn around. Her therapist told her to do whatever she thinks is best for her. We have never had a joint session. Inside, I've completely fallen apart. Nothing I do can fill the emptiness I feel.
Believe me, I can empathize. My W did very similar things to what yours has, is very stubborn, the whole thing. She even told me about 3 weeks ago talking to me "made her want to vomit".
I GALed my butt off, several 180s, several mistakes; and I got divorce papers on 8/19 for very serious grounds. I can remember screaming in my car I was so full of anger and hurting so badly - I hope no one thought I was a psycho!
Since 8/19 and filing horrible divorce papers, my W has come to me and admitted she loves me, wants to be married to me, and was doing wrong. This after saying we're done, too much bad has happened, we can never recover, all that script stuff.
Then she went back into divorce mode; then as recently as a few days ago, was hugging on me, asked me for time to think about us before finalizing the divorce, etc.
I said all that to say this - I've gone through what you've gone through, and felt the way you feel. Just like you I went through a week of almost no contact, and W responded very nicely. I'm actually in the start of another one.
Hang in there - go for a walk; punch a punching bag, run until you can't run anymore; post your thoughts on here. I know the rules say no family/friends; but I have a great friend that will listen to me and give me sound objective advice - same friend also loves W dearly so never takes my side against her.
Believe me, I can empathize. My W did very similar things to what yours has, is very stubborn, the whole thing. She even told me about 3 weeks ago talking to me "made her want to vomit".
I GALed my butt off, several 180s, several mistakes; and I got divorce papers on 8/19 for very serious grounds. I can remember screaming in my car I was so full of anger and hurting so badly - I hope no one thought I was a psycho!
Since 8/19 and filing horrible divorce papers, my W has come to me and admitted she loves me, wants to be married to me, and was doing wrong. This after saying we're done, too much bad has happened, we can never recover, all that script stuff.
Then she went back into divorce mode; then as recently as a few days ago, was hugging on me, asked me for time to think about us before finalizing the divorce, etc.
I said all that to say this - I've gone through what you've gone through, and felt the way you feel. Just like you I went through a week of almost no contact, and W responded very nicely. I'm actually in the start of another one.
Hang in there - go for a walk; punch a punching bag, run until you can't run anymore; post your thoughts on here. I know the rules say no family/friends; but I have a great friend that will listen to me and give me sound objective advice - same friend also loves W dearly so never takes my side against her.
Thanks, I needed to hear that. I only wish everything didn't seem to be moving in one direction. I decided I needed to protect myself and had the locks changed on the house for the first time since this all started.
Not sure if it matters, but my wife's 44th birthday is Friday. I think I'll still give her a card and leave it at that. Wife... I wonder how much longer I'll still be able to say that.
