Blowing in the wind....

[Whiterose]

Rose  "My H's LL is time together......this may be difficult since he won't come anywhere near me or the house. Lol

That's a tough one Rose. Does he have a secondary LL?

I think it's words of affirmation, if I remember correctly, we took the test together back in December

[mizjjd]

My H's LL are WOA and AOS. Those are the ones FY and Wonka recommend I give him in mini doses. Mz. J, about expectations from supplying H's LL, I do it to make him feel better about himself. He is so low and has such low self esteem. I don't expect and sure don't get anything from H from doing this, but it is important to me. Maybe my way of showing him I love him, which you might think is bad. But I really don't expect anything good or bad. And....CONGRATULATIONS on your wonderful new full time job!

Maybe my way of showing him I love him, which you might think is bad.

RL, I don't think what you are doing is "bad". Nor do I have the right to pass such judgment on you - glass houses you know. I continue to do much that I don't think I'm "supposed" to for my H but I do these things because it works for me/us for right now.
I really am very sorry if you thought I was personally criticizing you!

I intended to give my opinion regarding understanding of DBing principles. And maybe say, "proceed with caution".

it is important to me
I know it is. You want your H to KNOW you love him, that he is worthy. Certainly worth more than a green card. And I think you are a person who needs TO love as much as you need to BE loved. I'm sure that's what makes you a terrific nurse - and a super terrific human being.

And....CONGRATULATIONS on your wonderful new full time job!
Thank you
I am just thrilled. It will make such a huge difference to me and my family. It feels like a huge weight has been lifted - just fabulous!

Take care of yourself RL We need your wonderful warm and caring spirit on this forum.

[Underdog]

Linda,

My H's LL are WOA and AOS. Those are the ones FY and Wonka recommend I give him in mini doses.

When you do these things, notice/log the response you get from him. Do more of what works, less of what doesn't. Try not to get caught in the "rules" or dynamics of what people advise you - pay attention to the verbal and non-verbal cues and use your smarts and intuition to decide before proceeding. If he's in a really crappy mood, you probably won't want to embark on giving him WOA. (That would piss me off.) Instead, tone it down and go for validation instead. Acknowledge that he seems off and leave it at that. See if that gets him to open up?

Remember your goal: to draw him closer to you. He's not a cookie cutter and your recipe is not a sure fit for every circumstance, so play around with it some?

Although my H's is WOA, I think that your idea to stop multitasking and pay close attention while he is talking is really important to my H.

Linda, I think this is good advice for ALL relationships. I hate talking to people when they really aren't listening. It makes me feel not important enough to engage with me. It's one thing if you're having a quick convo, but not a true exchange of information.

I'm also not saying it's fair of him to ask you to sit and watch TV with him all the time. It's a balanced thing. My LL is QT. It's enough for someone to read next to me while I watch the baseball game.

Balance. IF your M was where you want it to be, there would be fairness and a genuine concern about him speaking your LL too. But sadly, you're not there yet so keep on trucking.

Just remember to do more of what works. Put your focus there.

Betsey

[nero]

hey hi linda-

missed ya lately- trip up to nj , mom to hospital, etc. always something wierd popping up in life these days. very busy- haven't even unpacked yet.

just took h to airport - and didn't go back to hospital til "up tight" sister leaves i think. she yelled her head off at me yesterday- i have no interest in any kind of repeat. it never ceases to amaze me that someone soooooo self-centered can end up yelling at me for not being MORE considerate of her & her needs & feelings- despite my being there and dealing with all mom stuff- BUT it's all about her wanting to darn well reach me on a cell phone when SHE WANTED TO and being pissed that i didn't have it on.! who even could know?

not my lifestyle- cellphone ONLY for emergencies & long drives alone - ONLY.

OH WELL huh? typical for her- emotional turmoil when anything going wrong in life- she freaks out and "attacks" someone.

My mistake- just saying back how i felt about it- I swear i was soft spoken (me in hospital room) and she was busting a gut at home alone. oiy!!! this family is gonna kill me. oh well huh? i still don't feel hurt or that bad about her telling me she & everyone hates me and that i should move to florida and stay there (before hanging up on me. nice huh?

if only real life was as simple as being all involved with your h's family and not have to deal with the mess in your own family. you know- the "inconvenient" things in life- people, old age, feelings, illnesses, hospitals, "s happens" kind of stuff. the crappy guilt & duty stuff.

i was just reading last page or so of your thread -

i know what you mean bout trying "to follow the rules" and still be linda. you do love- nice that you even feel you want to say it out loud. i flip and flop on the issue. it sticks in my throat. seems I have big trouble saying it or thinking it to someone sooooo obviously besotted with large ole dog-eye - - cow-girl . idk-

i think probalby you have to just go with your gut. i may be doing it rite or wrong- but the whole db thing- i can appreciate most of the strategies and so on - but i think we all have to try and modify it to go with our personalities and who we are.

me- no verbal affection going out - it's not welcome. i'm swalloqing it all- still trying to stfu with a vengence. i may explode one of these days.

pretty tired of feeling like i have leporasy except maybe at nite he may snuggle over one tiny bit- but not touch (like a hug or an actual on purpose touch) it's soooo f'ing jerky.. like if he accidentally (affirmatively) shows affection or touches me it means something awful. who knows- maybe he is disgusted too... ? maybe he thinks he'll be cheating on ow - maybe he is repulsed because he's alllll in love with her? idk- maybe i don't care (i wish) i'm too pooped from trying to figure.

however- both of us have to be us- it's stressful as hell not being able to be me, show affection without fear (ha) or get some back (double ha!)how it'll end, idk- anyone's guess.

for moment have tank ful of oil - so heat this winter - woo hoo. backup computer in case this one croaks while he's gone- idk why he knocks himself out doing nice stuff- it means something- but not anything that matters... crap substitute for love or affection. .

he texted me twice after being dropped at airport. first time he ever texted. i believe he's all happy to be going back to boink his true love. hope his winkie falls off.

i have a notion he gets allll "generous" in spirit to me because he's soooo guilty feelin and going to be so happy very shortly. i hope his butt falls off along with his winkie. idk- my "take" on it. he's one messed up dude.

i have no intention of "competing" with the cow or of "trying to win him back" . i was not crabby or wierd- but i wasn't warm or fuzzy either. it was a bit unusual parting- he even looked back and waved a couple times- wtf is up with that??? the guilt must be totally ENORMOUS for him to be acting like he cares.

how sad that any act of niceness is now construed by me as a bad sign of his guilt.

oh well- nothing new here- hope you're good. sorry for your giant quandries there - this nit picking can get to you.

where the heck is the list of abbreviations>? i may have known once- but can't find it and never can figure out what the heck people are sayng? any idea??

hope your day is okay- xxoo





eek-

anyway

[uRworthy]

Hello, my sweet friend. First of all, I hope you are doing ok with your eyes.

I wanted to just write a few things, if I may. I know how hard it is to decide what is the right course of action for your sitch. And we are all giving different opinions. You just take what you agree with.

Rosa, if you are casually touching him from time to time and it doesnt seem to be bothering him and more importantly you want to, then that is what you should do. But it is important to monitor actions.

Having said, that, I understand what FY said about LL, etc. But the thing with MLC is that the reason for them wanting out of the marriage is not because of anything we did or didnt do.

While there were things in our marriages and ourselves that needed changing,I think the reasons for the way they feel are not because we didnt speak their LL's. It is because they are broken and in crisis.

So, there is a fine line to be walked for sure. The MLCer wants to be heard. And so, if the spouse continues to act in a way that seems as if they dont understand that the MLCer wants out of the marriage, it can cause anger and resentment. They are saying to themselves, did she not hear me?

The thing that is important for you, RL is this. We can see how you are affected by his words and actions. And if we can see it, he surely can.

I know how hard you are working toward detachment. I know that it is counterintuitive to how you want to act.

You need to act if he is not coming back. Now, dont panic here, Linda. I am not saying that because I think that is what is going to happen. I am saying it because you need that mindset in order to move forward.

You need to live your life without regard to his actions or reactions. GAL, try new things, change your look. For you. If you feel like spending time with him at night, then do it, just not everytime. Change things up. Do what you want to do.

The upside of that is you become your best you. You become strong and confident. And that is very attractive, ya know?

When they come out of this, they are forever changed. They dont want to come back to the same marriage. And neither, really, should you. You want to have a new marriage. One that is based on who you have both become,

[uRworthy]

Rosa, I know that you are confused by a lot of this. I want to try to explain it the way I see it. Others may see it differently.

The main parts of Dbing include GAL, doing what works, not going down cheeseless tunnels, monitor and adjust, taking care of you, detaching. All of these things can be used in everyday life. We can use them when we need to make decisions. We can use them when we deal with people or situations. That is what I mean when I say I will db for life.

I know that you are struggling with detaching and letting your h go. To me this means that you go through your daily life without allowing what your h is saying or doing to influence what you say or do. It means that you will not try to influence what he does. You let him live his life and figure stuff out while you continue to move forward in yours.

So, if you feel like sitting and watching tv with him, you do it because you want to. Not as a tactic, not to affect him or his actions. If you do not feel like it, you don’t. You do not try to make him see things the way you think he should, nor do you let him dictate how you should see things.

The following helped me. I hope they do you.

"Letting Go"
* To "let go" does not mean to stop caring; it means I can't do it for someone else.
* To "let go" is not to cut myself off; it's the realization I can't control another.
* To "let go" is not to enable, but to allow learning from natural consequences.
* To "let go" is to admit powerlessness, which means the outcome is not in my hands.
* To "let go" is not to try to change or blame another; it's to make the most of myself.
* To "let go" is not to care for, but to care about.
* To "let go" is not to fix, but to be supportive.
* To "let go" is not to judge, but to allow another to be a human being.
* To "let go" is not to be in the middle arranging all the outcomes, but to allow others to affect their own destinies.
* To "let go" is not to be protective; it's to permit another to face reality.
* To "let go" is not to deny, but to accept.
* To "let go" is not to nag, scold or argue, but instead to search out my own shortcomings and correct them.
* To "let go" is not to criticize and regulate anybody, but to try to become what I dream I can be.
* To "let go" is not to adjust everything to my desires, but to take each day as it comes and cherish myself in it.
* To "let go" is to not regret the past, but to grow and live for the future.
* To "let go" is to fear less and love myself more.

Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving another person "the space" to be himself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with someone.
* Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place or thing.
* Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow people to be who they "really are" rather than who you "want them to be."
* Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you.

This is all a process, my friend. You will get there when you need to. I have no doubt,

[reachingHigher]

Thinking of you today, Linda.

Hope you are well.

You are a loving, warm and compassionate lady

Hugs,
rH

[RosaLinda]

Thanks to you all. I'm at work and can't really reply fully at this time but reading all of your kind and encouraging words gave me a real boost. I'm having a bad day in the ER. 

I worked the overnight Thurs and day shift today and overnight tomorrow again. It's so confusing and exhausting. And it's so hard to start IVs and read the medication vials with this double vision. 

Thursday one of my co-workers kindly (and I mean kindly, I am not saying that facetiously) took the time to explain to me how ridiculous and crazy I seem to all of them to keep standing after four years. Then today another co-worker used the same term, ridiculous. My actions seem ridiculous to them. That is SO hurtful. 

uR thanks for that explanation. I think I'm okay with the letting my H go but am having trouble with a couple of the detaching criteria. And am having trouble detaching from the people at work saying I'm ridulous

My MIL and I spent the day together yesterday at the beach. We had such a lovely day, talked and talked. She told me a lot about her childhood, growing up in the depression. And she's back on board with DBing - H gets her all riled up sometimes, and she tries to talk me into kicking him out Now there's a good MIL!

Then she, H, S27 and I got take-out fried fisherman's platters and sat around outside eating and drinking margaritas and talking. A wonderful evening, and a good memory for him when he's eating feemented oatmeal in a walk up studio apartment in Moscow. I hope. 

H finally listed a bunch of items  for sale on CraigsList. The kayak, my rug washer, the Caravan. Some tools. NOT his piano. Then he got indignant when the potential buyers tried to bargain with him. He got into a bunch of arguments and ended up saying "I don't NEED to sell these things." 

I guess he just wants change, wants to clean out his old life, but is not desperate to get rid of it? 

I found a hot yoga class not to far away. They have a 2-week trial membership. I'm going to add that to my GALs. 

Well back to work. Thanks for all of your support. 

[BrightFuture]

Linda, you have so much good advice on your thread. I learn a lot from the posts here. A lot of it applies to me too.

I know it is getting very close to your H’s trip, and it is probably very hard for you right now. But, I hope that you will get some reprieve after he lives. He will not be in your face every day and you will not have to think how to handle yourself and what to say. You can use his trip to your advantage. You can process your feelings in quite.

Hope you are OK.

[nero]

hey linda-

you're making me hungry - fish & chips and also think of england. i really really ended up liking (alot) those bloppie big french fries (chips) with alot of vinegar. you're making me think of that/

I'm just saying to you rite now- don't let ANYONE say or make you feel like it's ridiculous. no body alive - NO BODY- HAS THE RIGHT to make that judgement for you and of you.

i've gotten similar feedback a few times- tho haven't really told the ins and outs to too many people - probably more than i should have- but i just don't give a damn what they think of me in the end. if they're my friend- they can darn well be supportive.

and if they're not- and this is some kind of tie breaker- than f them too. ('m big on that today- f' everyone) a very very stressful day.

ANYWAY- YOU'RE NICE- you know your h and what you had- you know the place it has/had in your live- etc etc etc- i feel exactly like you (except my "flutter" of the gut is more like a little dead or stunned moth laying on the floor of the cage rite now)

i'm just sayin- you'e entitled to whatever you feel or do- so am i and no one is in our particular shoes.

so, in conclusion my dear - i think dr. suess said:

say what you think- and be who you are. those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

i don't mind- you db til the cows xome home( oh mannnn- "cow") and we all say okay by us.

i had to say it- at this very moment my h is undoubtedly laying in the arms of his very own elsie the cow - telling her what a jerk i am (possibly)

you know what i think of that- won't go down that road.

xxoo have a good nite- was thinking of you in hospital all day- the nurses make allll the difference - their humanity and good humour and mater of fact and interest truly make it stomachable. the drs, not so much. thank God for the women around (and i'm not being sexist) they've got compassion & empathy

xxoo