Suckerpunch, moving ahead one way or another!

[RockJC]

Technically she is a married woman. That is just a fact. At some point she may be divorced, but she is not divorced today.

You can argue that we are all free to do whatever we want. You are legally allowed to sleep with anyone (of age) that you want to whether you are single, married or divorced. That doesn't make it right.

I don't understand the mentality that says it is OK to cheat on your husband if you are separated, or unhappy, or just want to.

There is plenty of disrespect.

[AnotherStander]

25, I respect your input GREATLY. I cannot express how much I have missed your insight, but what I am about to say is how I feel.

SP, when are you going to learn that you can't trust your feelings? They betray you EVERY TIME. You are overwhelmed by your feelings, they consume you and make you say stupid things when you should instead just shut up and listen. By the way, when you throw "but" into a statement it completely negates everything before it.

I am not sure, but perhaps you have not been following my posts very closely. You seem to be far off base.

Let's turn the "way back machine" to 11-29-12 and see why SP says his M is failing:

"Her biggest complaint in our marriage is my arguing. I am hypercritical by nature and usually feel that I have to argue and win every conversation."

Wow, really? Well THANK GOODNESS you've done a 180 on this! Seriously though, don't you see you are STILL doing this??? No? Go back and read your responses to 25!

I know this is a problem I have, and I am trying to work on it.

It's been almost 9 months, how would you say you've done on this?

I think most people would consider us the sarcastic bickering couple. We nit pick each other constantly.

I see a lot of this "bickering" in your threads too. You bicker with most everyone here. It's a passive/ aggressive thing, you argue and then capitulate, then repeat.

Really, I guess our biggest problem is just engaging each other and communicating our needs and feelings. We tend to walk on each others feelings instead of lifting them up.

You still have trouble with this too.

Upon her return, I would give her the silent treatment, and she should would respond with the same. We eventually get over that, and the next issue is on the table for us to bicker over, but we never get to that happy point where we should be.

And what about now, are you ever happy? I don't sense it.

SP, you've had moments of growth in your threads, but then you backslide and fall right back into your old ways. You have GOT to double down and do the hard work it takes to make yourself a better person. You need to go back to the start and "begin with a beginner's mind".

25 mentioned seeking medical attention, you should do that. We see things in your posts that you do not, and I certainly agree with her that there are a LOT of signs of depression and emotional issues in your posts. People in mild to moderate depression rarely know they're in it, and in fact will often argue that they're not. It's not until they get out of it that they realize how ensconced they were. So go for you and for your D. If they tell you that you're not depressed, then you're just out a visit. No biggie. But if you are in depression, it may save your life or save you from doing something really stupid (which I agree with 25 that you are primed to do).

[MrCAS]

I don't understand the mentality that says it is OK to cheat on your husband if you are separated, or unhappy, or just want to.

I don't understand it, either. Yes, it is disrespectful.

However, what are any of us going to do about it? Shame the WAS? Really? Never going to happen. Bitch and moan about it? A waste of time and energy. I suppose we could all get angry about it. Seems kind of a pointless waste of energy to me.

So, SP, where are you on this now?

[lovethehub]

I am not saying that I am open to him coming here, but I do know I will have to get passed this sort of thing eventually. I cringe to think what it will be like for me, if he shows up to some of my daughters school activities, with the way I feel now....geeeeez.

I do know it hurts much more to see it, than it does to simply know it's happening. While it is upsetting to know that wife has moved into a new committed relationship, last week when I saw them in person it hurt

I know it hurts. I have been through it and I know it is very, very painful. I also know that it hurts more to see them, unfortunately, it is the reality and you do have to deal with it. I agree it is disrespectful, and I know it hurts more when they got together while you were M, we are just trying to encourage you to be the bigger man. It will be very painful regardless of how you handle it so why not handle it in a way that you can look back on and respect yourself for? Right now, your pride will like throwing him off the property. When you look back one day, and you two (hopefully) have a co-parenting R that works for D, you can have self respect knowing that you took the high road.

You can even text her back and let her know that, although it is rude and disrespectful, you have decided that it is only D you care about and therefore, YOU have made the decision to improve the co-p R. Let her know that because of that you have decided you don't care what she does as long as D isn't negatively affected. That way she won't think it is her last text about the cops that 'made you back down'.

As for activities, he will most likely be attending them. How do you handle this? You act like you don't care at all. Once the event is over you go home and work out, scream, have a beer with a buddy, whatever you have to do to let it go. It will get better with time, I promise. When you have to grin and bear it, just think of your D and remember that you are doing this FOR HER.

I am going to let wife run around, play, vacation and what have you, while I start to focus more on the important aspects.

Yes, focus on finances and your D. However, don't forget to focus on yourself, too, you are just as important.

La, you're right. I am broken because of myself. I allowed this all to affect me very deeply. I need to stop that, but HOW?

How? GAL. I don't recall reading much of anything you are doing in this area. I am not saying you aren't but I don't recall if you are or not. If not, get out there and start doing it.

Find a counselor to talk to so you can come to terms with your feelings about it and have a place to get it all out. You wouldn't be human if it didn't affect you deeply, and it will for a while. It isn't that it is affecting you deeply, it is that you aren't really dealing with the emotions you are experiencing. That is why this situation (OM at campground) is easy to latch on to, there is something you can DO about it. It isn't about whether W is right or wrong to do it, we all agree it is wrong. Unfortunately, she can do whatever she wants and she doesn't seem to care

[RockJC]

//what are any of us going to do about it?//

I agree that there is nothing you can do about changing your spouse’s views on the subject or controlling what they do; it is a waste of time to try. But, there are things YOU or I can do to honor this value.

1) Until I am divorced (Probably long after), I will not date. I will honor my vows, even while I am working through the divorce.

2) When I am divorced and start dating, I will NOT date or socialize with someone who is still "Technically married" but separated.

3) If I was socializing with a married friend who was having marital problems and they brought along a "Friend" of the opposite sex. I would voice my disapproval and leave. I would not socialize with them.

4) If I was talking with a friend who was justifying this behavior to me, I would explain my values and try to convince them to show respect to their spouse/marriage.

5) If I had a friend who was “Technically married”, but openly dating, I would end the friendship. Out of respect for their spouse, I would not associate with someone living like this.

In general, I would speak truth and express my values. I would not validate any arguments that try to justify this thinking.

[MrBond]

"Technically she is a married woman. That is just a fact. At some point she may be divorced, but she is not divorced today. "

That's what you don't get. TO HER, she's free. And right now that's all that matters. It doesn't matter what the LBS believes or wants to believe or even what society believes. TO HER she's free. Once you understand that that is how she is perceiving things on her end, you will understand how to approach her.

Saying that she's married is more a way of controlling what YOU think. Again, it may not be morally, ethically, or legally right, but that is what SHE believes right now.

Ask ANY WAS. They feel that once they say they are no longer 'in love' with the LBS, they feel that they are not M'd. Read the walk out woman and it'll give you a better understanding of this.

That is why letting them go is so powerful. You validate and "agree" to their RIGHT to decide on what they do with their own lives, but you don't validate the actual behavior.

[MrCAS]

Hey Rocky... We are on the same page... Honestly.

[MrCAS]

Exactly, Mr. Bond.

I came to understand this.

It took awhile but those well placed head crackers from certain vets here brought me around.

[RockJC]

Mr. Bond,
I get it, I absolutely do. I have read all the articles. I am not implying that Suckerpunch should ever remind her that she is married, or that it would have any effect. I understand what she thinks and how it is driving her behavior. I am living this everyday.

But when you state “And anyhow, you filed for D, so there really is no disrespect. She is technically a free woman.” That is not the WAS talking that is YOU talking. That is an expression of your values.

I strongly disagree with you. She is not a “Free woman”, she is married. And, there is a great deal of disrespect.

I also don’t agree with the statement “It doesn't matter …… what society believes” I think it matters greatly. Her behavior is reprehensible. She should feel shame (note , this is not the same as “you should try to shame her”). As a society, we should expect more from people. Legally, there should be financial penalties for doing what she is doing in this marriage. There is something seriously wrong with this non-judgmental, anything is OK, no-fault culture.

Marriage is a legal and moral contract. It involves promises and commitments. It should control a married person’s behavior. The WAS thinking is irrational and incredibly destructive. As a society, we should not be validating this behavior.

Unfortunately, you get off this site and the message from our society is that this is OK. “You deserve to be happy”, “you only live once”, “ It is time to trade up”, etc…. is a cultural drumbeat that our generation seems to be dancing too.

[Wonka]

Marriage is a legal and moral contract. It involves promises and commitments. It should control a married person’s behavior.

I'd like to chime in with some observations regarding this debate and then hand it to get back to SP's sitch.

Yes, marriage is a legal contract between two consenting adults exercising their free-will to enter in a covenant that binds the R in a formal manner from a legal standpoint (i.e. taxes, etc).

When it comes to the 'moral contract'...it becomes murky. How do you define moral? Based on who's definition? Moral for your own personal comfort? Moral based on your personal values? What about the other individual's feelings and thoughts in relation to moral contract?

This is where self-righteous indignation trips up most people in the early stages of DBing when there's OP is in the picture. We don't have to like the fact that there's an OW/OM in the picture, but we DO need to check our pride at the door and keep our eyes on the MAIN prize. It isn't a restored M..it is a better, improved YOU. Restoring the M is an added bonus to this journey.