wife hardends heart-3

[MrBond]

"What i meant was I don't trust them with my kids."

Unfortunately this is out of your hands. When they are with your W, then she is the one that needs to protect them. Don't involve family members.

"I don't really want to spend the night at her house but it's my right to visit my kids anytime and take them anywhere with reasonable notification."

Why do you need to stay at her house to do so? Have them stay at your place when possible.

[newman7977]

"I was going to safe keep the emails and speak to one of W's relative. I want her to know what had actually transpired and to keep this secret for me because I would want her to help keep an eye on my kids. Right now i do not trust OM and W."

This is a long shot. I doubt she's going to be on your side. You can not trust anybody right now but yourself when it comes to your children. Draft something up right now and present it to your L. You want 50% custody if not, mon & tues (or whatever works for you) kids stay with you and alternate the weekends in your home--this will be your "unrestricted visitation schedule".

Your W will tell you anything right now to get you off her back...so get the legal system to protect you. If she is truthful about you getting the kids any weekends you want, then this shouldn't be a problem for her.

[PatientMan]

So she's lied/is lying to you and has shown no respect for at all. *I* would go as dark as possible with her. She doesn't want you to rescue her.

-PM

[planet]

OK.
So what do i do now?

I know at the very least, the below are my-to-do-list:
I'm going to change all my passwords to my accounts.
I'm going to move out.
I'm going to trust W to handle our kids well.
I'm going to focus on my project.
I'm going to shut up about W's affair.

Do i need to validate her feelings when she brings up past grievance again? Frankly i'm tired of doing this when she does not want to address the real question in hand and deviate to her past grievance. I don't know why she does that all the time.

[25yearsmlc]

"What i meant was I don't trust them with my kids."

Unfortunately this is out of your hands. When they are with your W, then she is the one that needs to protect them. Don't involve family members.

"I don't really want to spend the night at her house but it's my right to visit my kids anytime and take them anywhere with reasonable notification."

Why do you need to stay at her house to do so? Have them stay at your place when possible.

WHAT BOND^^^SAYS!!!! X 1000.

No reason to involve anyone else in this (0ther than a lawyer) and when you say you don't want to shame them by sharing this with HER family, I don't believe you.

Since you have NO SAY or control over how she behaves when OM is with her, stop pretending that it's a reason to disclose her affair. It;s a vindictive excuse.

If there is an actual reason for distrust, go to court and get her found unfit OR have HIM persona non grata around your kids. Get a court order and if you don't have any evidence to support your claim and feelings of distrust, then drop this straw man argument.

PLUS involving other people in this, will most certainly negate any possibility of a future reconcilation. You may scoff at that posssibility now. And you may not care that you will appear vindictive and even weak, to most third parties.

You may be reeling in so much anger right now that you don't think you played any role in this, and the idea of forgiving her or even taking the high road and being kinder to her, is beyond your comprehension at the moment.

Okay...but she is the mother of your children. It is in THEIR best interests, AND YOURS,

to get along with her. Don't screw that up.

Put the kids first. That means stop telling other people and please do NOT involve your kids. IN time they will deeply resent you for involving them. Trust me on that.

I am reconciled now for years. Yet my children have issues with my h, and sometimes with ME for even showing my pain when it made them feel responsible. Or when I criticized their father, it hurt THEM.

I deeply regret that, even now. And it was not a frequent thing, but it harmed them. I put my pain ahead of their welfare and belief in their dad. I wish I had involved them in the reconciliation more b/c they weren't there for that. We went to Retrovaille but the kids did not.

Bottom line, Kids MUST FEEL LOVED BY BOTH PARENTS.

Period. Don't do anything to interfere with that emotional tie.



IF she screws up HER relationship with them, that is on her, and all you can do is be present for them...fully present. That's impossible when your anger and constant thinking about the unfairness of it all, pollutes your time with them.

But why on earth would you need to stay at HER place to see your kids? Get a place with room for them or forever be in this awkward DEPENDENT volatile position, which is not appealing. Increases likelihood of conflict, and that stinks for the kids too.

PLEASE get a place that enables you to have the kids more, as in it has room for them. This ALSO enables you to get more custody.
How can you ask a judge to grant you more time when it's always at her place? That will get old to HER very soon, and you will never feel comfortable or independent by doing that.

Make sense?


Good luck, life does get better. And her new "love" will evolve, like all r's do. Don't roll over in shock if she approaches you in a year and says she is sorry.
Don't spend too much time worrying about what a GREAT time they are always having together, as if they are never ever diagreeing...while all in your life sukks. B/C their lives are not related to yours.

YOUR LIFE IS YOUR JOB to manage. Your happiness is your job.
And creating a new fulfilling life for your kids is also your task.

A child psychologist told me that if a divorce happens, the thing for the kids is you must stress what will NOT change for them in their lives. Like if they don't have to move, or change schools, or have to make new friends,

those are things to stress to them. "You'll stay in the same school and neighborhood, and see your best friends every day, and church, AND you will see me/your mom every..." AND BE SPECIFIC and detailed when you can.

Don't make ANY promises you cannot keep. If you do b/c something HUGE comes up, own that and apologize and make sure it does not keep happening. Don't make light of it or pretend it didn't happen b/c you are afraid your w will make more of it. Privately own it to the kids if you can. They will appreciate the respect and honesty you are showing them.

Make them feel MORE valued now than ever.

HER life and her happiness or misery, or your perception of it, does Not relate to or affect YOURS.

The two are independent of each other. Like if she has a flat tire, your car is not suddenly a Jaguar.

And if she laughs at a comedy show, it does not mean your day was ruined with tears.

Do you understand what I am saying?
Don't let her life be an index for yours.

Show and model for your children, what a man of honor and strength does, when faced with a blow to the heart.

Each one of your children will face a setback in their life; a betrayal of some sort.

YOU MUST MODEL FOR THEM how to handle it. Show them that although your pain is deep, it's NOT fatal.

You will heal. You know this now, though you know it takes time.

Show them that your pain may be bad, but it's NOT ETERNAL.

It does pass, in time. You will heal.

You will be happy again, laugh again, and yes love again.

For NOW, do some GAL as much as possible. FOR YOU and for your kids to see. Don't make your pain their responsibility or burden. It's easy for an LBSer to do accidentally.

Rent comedies, see them, bond with the kids like never before, get in shape, MEET NEW PEOPLE and JOIN something or sign up for a class THIS MONTH.

Seriously...

Good luck, and keep posting.

[25yearsmlc]

OK.
So what do i do now?

I know at the very least, the below are my-to-do-list:
I'm going to change all my passwords to my accounts.
I'm going to move out.
I'm going to trust W to handle our kids well.
I'm going to focus on my project.
I'm going to shut up about W's affair.


This list is good for how you deal with HER and your "action plan" but what about the big picture?

Are you seeing a counselor to learn how to show affection? Have you gotten any experience with spending time with your d's when your w is not around?
Your wife has taken great care of them so far, and OM has been around them before. I think the "trust them with their mother" thing is a non issue. Since she has cared for them much more than you, doesn't SHE have a better reason to argue you should not be alone with them?

She is not saying that, but I am pointing out how to see things from HER point of view...it will help you, for certain.

Do you fear that time alone with them? You have to learn to be a single dad, for awhile. I suspect she'd welcome you asking her questions about the girls b/c that will show you appreciated her doing so much work for them and you will also learn about how to care for them when she's not around. You must do this.



Do i need to validate her feelings when she brings up past grievance again? Frankly i'm tired of doing this when she does not want to address the real question in hand and deviate to her past grievance. I don't know why she does that all the time.

First, what are you saying the "real question in hand" is?

I read your whole thread. You were a lousy h and father, for most of your marriage. Your family mistreated her as well. You avoided conflict with them, at her expense.

To HER, you may as well shoved her into the arms of OM.
I know that hurts to hear, but you see,

She has justified it in her heart and mind and does NOT think she was wrong to do it. Not "under the circumstances" of your marriage.

She does not believe she is "sinning", or if she does, she thinks it's worth it.

SO, when she brings up the past it's either b/c you make her feel uncomfortable, or she believes you are trying to shame her. Your goal in the short term needs to be allowing her to feel more relaxed around you. Don't make her want to flee.

IF she brings up the past wrongs you did, here are two options.


IF She is bringing up an issue that is TRUE OR EVEN PARTLY TRUE, if there is some validity to it,

you say, "W, I still regret that mistake. IF I had it to do over again, there are lots of things I would do differently."

IF there is no truth to her claims, or you have no recall of an event, do not accuse her of lying,

you say, "W, wow, that's not what I recall at all. But I am sorry if I hurt you then. IF I had it to do over again, there are lots of things I would do differently."

BOTH answers ^^ show that you care that she felt bad and that you recognize the need for change ON YOUR END.

But neither answer makes you a doormat.

If she gets repetitive, AND IF YOU have already apologized at least twice (b/c many times they don't "hear" or believe the first apology, or second, for something that deeply hurt them, and still does)

you can say, "W, as I said before, if I had it to do all over again, there are many things I would do differently. NOW I'm working on ME and letting go of the past so WE can move forward, raising our girls."

Don't worry about her wrongs to you in the past. Don't think it's your job to tell her all her flaws.
First off, that only makes her SURE her choice to leave you is right. B/c it's critical of you to do, and who wants to hear that?

Do not fuel her choice to leave you with more negative interactions.

Keeping score is silly and destructive. Besides, on HER scorecard, you are way behind...and if you read your first thread again, you will see why I say that. You have enough to work on in your life for now, on just you.

Work on you. Are you seeing a therapist or counselor or pastor?

How hard is it to do that in your country? There are self help books out there. I think the Five Love Languages will help you in all your future relationships, as will the oldie but goodie book, by Dale Carnegie,

called "How to Win Friends & Influence People".

You say you don't have many close friends and your family is cold.

That's no way to live and it's no way to raise your girls to be.

GOOD LUCK and please keep posting. You are not alone. Life can get better but it's not "fate's" job to make it that way.

We have to create our own happiness and it IS achievable. Show your d's that truth.

[25yearsmlc]

PS

where is your GAL list? Have you read the Divorce Remedy book?

You must meet new people and or take a class or get a new hobby.

WE say this again and again because it works! It makes you happier, less anxious or angry, and you meet new people.

That will help you socialize, and make new connections with people. You have to get out of your comfort zone to create the happiness you want in your life.

That means more friends. And if your family is negative, or unhealthy or unhelpful to you or if they criticize your wife,

then decrease your time with them.

GAL means "Get A Life"...and you do it for YOU,

but ironically,

it also makes you more interesting and appealing. Not to get your wife back, but yes it sometimes works.

Let her notice the NEW YOU b/c after all, most women want to be with the father of their children.

No woman is unmoved by the LOVING interaction of the father of her children, with those children.

Be the best dad you can be, now. It's the right thing to do, and it's also attractive.

Keep on keeping on.

[planet]

No reason to involve anyone else in this (0ther than a lawyer) and when you say you don't want to shame them by sharing this with HER family, I don't believe you.

Since you have NO SAY or control over how she behaves when OM is with her, stop pretending that it's a reason to disclose her affair. It;s a vindictive excuse.

If there is an actual reason for distrust, go to court and get her found unfit OR have HIM persona non grata around your kids. Get a court order and if you don't have any evidence to support your claim and feelings of distrust, then drop this straw man argument.

W have been explaining her situation and fully blames me for the fallout to her family members while i have been keeping quiet and have not defended myself. I guess i truly wanted someone from her family with somewhat rational thinking to hear out my side of it and of course that also includes recent events.
BTW, the lawyer says my evidence is not admissible in court and to prove infidelity i would need something more than what i have.

Okay...but she is the mother of your children. It is in THEIR best interests, AND YOURS,
to get along with her. Don't screw that up.

Yes i understand that perfectly. Don't screw it up, got it.

But why on earth would you need to stay at HER place to see your kids? Get a place with room for them or forever be in this awkward DEPENDENT volatile position, which is not appealing. Increases likelihood of conflict, and that stinks for the kids too.

PLEASE get a place that enables you to have the kids more, as in it has room for them. This ALSO enables you to get more custody.
How can you ask a judge to grant you more time when it's always at her place? That will get old to HER very soon, and you will never feel comfortable or independent by doing that.

I can't afford one now. I'm broke. I'm moving back to my parent's place. Yesterday, W warned me from taking the kids to my family and if i would defy her she would personally go over to my parents and 'kill' mom disregarding the consequences. I told her to calm down as i'm sticking to our earlier verbal agreement.

A child psychologist told me that if a divorce happens, the thing for the kids is you must stress what will NOT change for them in their lives. Like if they don't have to move, or change schools, or have to make new friends,
those are things to stress to them. "You'll stay in the same school and neighborhood, and see your best friends every day, and church, AND you will see me/your mom every..." AND BE SPECIFIC and detailed when you can.

They are not moving and not switching schools. They will meet their father hopefully everyday.

experience with spending time with your d's when your w is not around?
Your wife has taken great care of them so far, and OM has been around them before. I think the "trust them with their mother" thing is a non issue. Since she has cared for them much more than you, doesn't SHE have a better reason to argue you should not be alone with them?

She is not saying that, but I am pointing out how to see things from HER point of view...it will help you, for certain.

Do you fear that time alone with them? You have to learn to be a single dad, for awhile. I suspect she'd welcome you asking her questions about the girls b/c that will show you appreciated her doing so much work for them and you will also learn about how to care for them when she's not around. You must do this.

Ever since the bomb, i have changed. I mean i have taken care of my kids alone when W goes on a holiday or when she has to work full day. I bathe them, fed them, get them to bed, get them off bed, dress them (really bad at doing their hair), play with them, read them their books, guide them on their school work all by myself. I have started taking them out to parks and malls which irks W because she thinks i couldn't handle them. She just doesn't believe and i have done what she would have when taking them out.

First, what are you saying the "real question in hand" is?

Yesterday during our talk, she questioned me on my meeting with L in private. All i want is joint custody which is unavailable here in my country and she went berserk. literally. Asking why i have dishonoured my word in wanting custody of my children for myself. Joint custody is not full custody. I put it to her that there's no reason for me for not wanting 50%. After some time, she gets what i'm trying to say but went on to attack my family. I have to direct her back to the question while validating her feelings towards my family. She just switches back and forth.

I read your whole thread. You were a lousy h and father, for most of your marriage. Your family mistreated her as well. You avoided conflict with them, at her expense.

I am, am i? She said that too and if i had at least comforted her things would be different. I have admitted my mistakes and inaction. I own up to them and i have not denied them.

SO, when she brings up the past it's either b/c you make her feel uncomfortable, or she believes you are trying to shame her. Your goal in the short term needs to be allowing her to feel more relaxed around you. Don't make her want to flee.

I'm not sure though. It seems to me that she wanted to win an argument rather than resolve one. I have been quiet whenever she brings them up. I wasn't even fighting her.

"W, wow, that's not what I recall at all. But I am sorry if I hurt you then. IF I had it to do over again, there are lots of things I would do differently."

I got hell if i had disagreed. There are events that i recalled as she being rude to me but when i point that out she remembers otherwise.

you can say, "W, as I said before, if I had it to do all over again, there are many things I would do differently. NOW I'm working on ME and letting go of the past so WE can move forward, raising our girls."

Saying sorry doesn't cut it. My parents have apologize but still she say its not enough. She wants vengeance and wants them to feel the pain of not seeing their grandchildren. She can't let go of the past.

Work on you. Are you seeing a therapist or counselor or pastor?
How hard is it to do that in your country? There are self help books out there. I think the Five Love Languages will help you in all your future relationships, as will the oldie but goodie book, by Dale Carnegie,
called "How to Win Friends & Influence People".
You say you don't have many close friends and your family is cold.
That's no way to live and it's no way to raise your girls to be.

Nope. Can't afford that. Left Christ many years ago too. Gone too far to ever return as a believer.
I'll keep those books in mind.
My family have actually come together to support me. My parents loved my kids and that is a fact even W doesn't deny.

where is your GAL list? Have you read the Divorce Remedy book?

Right now, my GAL will be my prototype. Have to work hard on it before my partner leaves me.
Yes, I have read DR. I'll read it again if i have the time.

And if your family is negative, or unhealthy or unhelpful to you or if they criticize your wife,
then decrease your time with them.

They don't. They have never said anything bad about her since W confronted them harshly in january and they were shocked and upset with my D in june.

Be the best dad you can be, now. It's the right thing to do, and it's also attractive.

Keep on keeping on.

I will. Thank you.

Thanks for taking time out to read my threads and commenting on it. Appreciate it.

[planet]

You know 180's is a funny thing. Very surreal.
People are somewhat surprised by my 180. Even W acknowledges that to my friend but says its too late.
She mentions it again yesterday. "why now?" I said i have a long life ahead and saw no reason not to start doing it now.

Is there anything i can do to keep my 180s going? Just practice it over and over?

[MrBond]

"Yesterday, W warned me from taking the kids to my family and if i would defy her she would personally go over to my parents and 'kill' mom disregarding the consequences. I told her to calm down as i'm sticking to our earlier verbal agreement. "

This was the wrong thing to do. You can't keep giving in to her when she threatens. It's like she's a child who wants to have her way. If you have no choice but to stay with your parents, then it's something she's going to have to deal with. When she threatens to do something like that, just tell her that that is HER choice to do. And then walk away.