How to DR if she will not leave the OM?

[sw-1234]

As Starsky knows,
I am not in favor of anything that smacks of punitive measures. IT's good to get different opinions. He and I often disagree.

25yearsmlc - I was hoping you would chime in. It was a string of your posts on a very similar thread that encouraged me to start "the rules" and to buy the DR book. Your advise seems to consistently align with the DR book and this site. I know that punitive measures are exactly the opposite of what I need to be doing right now but it is good to get as many opinions as possible and to hear what has worked for others.

But if I were in your shoes, I think the suggestions about the texts while you are around, are clearly needed. I was not aware she was doing it in front of you.

I agree but could really use some tips about how to go about this is a constructive way that does not come across controlling. I can not make a demand nor do I feel I could implement any consequences. Any Ideas?

Also something more constructive than meek MC has to be done.
Many mc's are more like divorce counselors b/c they are not solution based like Div Busting is. They focus on the past and rehash the pain of it. That usually fuels the partner who wants out, to leave. But you can find a solution based MC if you ask. Check to see if they have read or adopted any DB principles.

The Psychologist/ Therapist we are seeing is far from meek. I doubt he would say he is inline with Div Busting but he is very VERY marriage / family oriented. All of his advise/ direction has been to save the marriage despite its fragile state. He has a very child first approach. He has given both of us individually very heated and passionate lectures about the damage we will do to our daughter if we divorcee. I think he just wants us to stop thinking about how each of us is currently thinking about ourselves and think about how our daughter will feel now and in the future. This is not to say he is suggesting that we stay in a bad marriage but that we at least make a serious effort to save the marriage before deciding it is over.

And in fairness to your w, you were an admitted jerk of a h. Short of physical abuse, you sound very difficult and you admit to being uber controlling. I can tell.

This is very hard to explain. I have had many revelation/ awakenings/ light bulbs turning on... over the past three months. One of which was when our therapist stated that I was a control freak. I never knew. I have done what research I could and am ashamed and embarrassed to say that I do fit most of the definition. I am committed to changing this and have already started. Most of the counseling I have received has only been to stabilize the crises. We have not gotten into how to fix my personal problems yet but I hope to soon. Meanwhile, with having the realization and understanding of this personality trait I am thinking about what I say and do much more and making every effort to remove anything that could be interpreted as controlling.

The level of snooping and confronting you do, in the middle of the night b/c you cannot control yourself, is more of the same.

I have stopped all snooping and spying as of a week ago last Tuesday but I admit that this is very hard for me. What I called "the truth" was very addictive. I understand that this is a week excuse but due to all of the lying (and my belief of the lies) I feel I have no bearing on what is true or lie. When I was spying I would at least get the truth. I did not like what I heard but it relieved the voice inside that was telling me something did not make sense and my attempts to find an answer to something that made no sense would stop. As I stated I know everything I need to know now so there is no point in spying or snooping but the lies do continue even though I have asked her just say nothing instead of lie.

A man in charge of HIS emotions, is attractive. A man who does NOT try to control others, (or wake them up again b/c he's freaking out again) b/c he is confident in his choices, is attractive.

If you want to show her that you can change, CHANGE.

I highly recommend you attend Retrovaille. It's a marriage retreat for marriages in trouble. PLEASE look it up. IT did wonders for my m and many others. Of the 25 troubled couples in our retreat, 21 or 22 are still together.

That is amazing since 8 of them were planning on divorcing when they attended, and most of the rest of us were considering it.

If we get to a point that she wants to do some real work on our marriage I will suggest it. I think now, it would be a bit premature. If you disagree please let me know. She seems willing to do something but I'm not sure how far she will go.


There are two reasons I see hope in your situation.

First, you SOUND willing to work on YOU, and capable of forgiving her in time, b/c you know you played a huge role in her choices. Begin that work.

I am working on me! for sure. I have been working out for three weeks (i hate working out). I have committed to seeing a therapist to repair my unhealthy personality issues. I have stopped working so much to make myself more available to her and my daughter. I am now showing (not telling) my wife the love and respect I have for her. These are the things I am DOING not saying. I need to DO much more but this is were I am today.

Second, she is NOT telling YOU that "OM is the real love of her life" AND OR that she wants out of the marriage...yet.

She tells the OM that she loves him deeply but she tells me she is unsure if it is love or not. She has not said she wants out of the marriage but only once she brought up the subject of separation. She did not necessarily say she wanted one, she just threw it out there. I said that I did not want to separate and that I did not see how that would be working on us.

So you have time. Use that GIFT WELL.

Be a man only a fool would leave.

I'm trying!


PS if you have the funds, hire a DB coach. I had one who was a Godsend. I think I ended up having about 15 sessions. It was cheaper than divorce.

I have had one session with a DB coach two days ago. I know she was trying to help but most of the feedback was general recommendations directly from the book. She did slowly try to explain what my wife is going through and explained that this was going to be a very long process if I decided to "weather the storm".
What has given me the most strength came from the bottom of page 130 of DR:
"As long as your spouse seems to be somewhat interested rather than pulling away, it's OK for your marriage to be in a holding pattern. It will try your patience, but what else do you have to do right now that could be as important as trying to save your marriage? BE PATIENT!"

I realize that if I were suddenly single I would have a heap of work to do on myself that is going to take some time. I don't have to make any decisions today in regard to our marriage. I'm taking the advice and focusing on myself and making myself "Be a man only a fool would leave".


Yes I tolerated more than I ever expected to, for longer, and I made some major changes in ME and how I react and see things...

but it worked. I am a better person for it, a better mother and a better wife.

I am away on a business trip now and contact with my wife has been reduced to text messages. She has sent messages stating that she misses me, that she is thinking about me, and that she is depressed. Do you have any tips on how to respond?
Also, yesterday was the first day that there were no texts at all. I am worried that because I have pulled back so far she may be thinking I'm bitter and being petty by not responding to her texts. I have responded to a few but I wait a long time in between texts and I keep my responses very general.

I could also use some help for when I get home.
Should we be close?
Should we have sex if she wants to?
Should we be doing normal things together like going to brunch?
When she is at home, often times she starts to warm up after a while. She initiates contact and wants to be close.
Should I take a more distant approach.
Should I say anything to the affect that as long as she is openly in the affair we need to keep our distance.
I have tried to do this twice and failed. I told her that I did not want to "play house" as long as the affair was gong on and she would just get closer and I would melt and we would be right back to holding hands snuggling in bed and having sex.
I know that being inconsistent is definitely the wrong thing to do but this is because I do not know what the right thing to do is. I don't want to do anything that will push her into his arms and a part of me things that rejecting her advances will do just that. Any ideas?
Thank you very much for your time and support!