LBH on the Left Coast IV: Into the Fire

[chl0901]

Congrats on your awesome weight loss, Lefty! That's quite an accomplishment!

[labug]

When I married, divorce wasn't even an option.

I think this gets a lot of us in trouble because if it's not an option, we don't honor the marriage. Many of us don't realize how precious life is until we're faced with grave illness of impending death.

I've learned that nothing is certain and that's been a great lesson for me.

"As human beings we share a tendency to scramble for certainty whenever we realize that everything around us is in flux. In difficult times the stress of trying to find solid ground-something predictable and safe to stand on-seems to intensify. But in truth, the very nature of our existence is forever in flux. Everything keeps changing, whether we're aware of it or not.
What a predicament! We seem doomed to suffer simply because we have a deep-seated fear of how things really are. Our attempts to find lasting pleasure, lasting security, are at odds with the fact that we're part of a dynamic system in which everything and everyone is in process." Pema Chodron

Give gratitude every day.

I'm very philosophical today...

[JuneReN]

Weight loss is amazing Lefty...good for you!!

Love Pema....;)

Keep your seat Lefty...

[LBH_LC]

Women in the past stayed in some very, bad, dangerous marriages because they had no choice. They were tied to men who were "good providers" because they couldn't get jobs that would support their families. In 1966 women made .60 for every dollar that a man earned. (Today we're up to .77) They usually had large families because until the 1960's birth control wasn't widely available. When I started working in 1978, women still had to have their husband's permission to get a tubal ligation.

I know this probably isn't where you intended this to go, but I just had to say I don't miss those good ole days.

I really don't want to derail my own thread, but I just need to reply to a few points. I consider myself a feminist and I am deeply sympathetic to the struggles women have faced in the past and those that they continue to face today. Naturally, I believe in divorce in cases of abuse where the spouse is unable or unwilling to change or domestic violence.

Can we agree something is wrong when the divorce rate is as high as it is now? I hope so, because why else are we here? Can we also agree that societal expectations for men have increased instead of societal expectations for women decreasing? Can we also agree that these expectations are largely used to sell us things we don't need?

[LBH_LC]

When I married, divorce wasn't even an option.

I think this gets a lot of us in trouble because if it's not an option, we don't honor the marriage. Many of us don't realize how precious life is until we're faced with grave illness of impending death.

Yeah, that was me. I failed to honor my marriage like I should have because I took it granted and then when I realized what I was doing, I was too afraid and weak to try to fix it until it was too late.

I've learned that nothing is certain and that's been a great lesson for me.

"As human beings we share a tendency to scramble for certainty whenever we realize that everything around us is in flux. In difficult times the stress of trying to find solid ground-something predictable and safe to stand on-seems to intensify. But in truth, the very nature of our existence is forever in flux. Everything keeps changing, whether we're aware of it or not.
What a predicament! We seem doomed to suffer simply because we have a deep-seated fear of how things really are. Our attempts to find lasting pleasure, lasting security, are at odds with the fact that we're part of a dynamic system in which everything and everyone is in process." Pema Chodron

Give gratitude every day.

I'm very philosophical today...

I've been reading Radical Acceptance: Embracing Your Life With the Heart of a Buddha, and this seems to dovetail nicely. I think it is human nature to wish for things to remain largely at they are, but I know it is unreasonable. I don't think I will ever be able to let go of expecting marriage to be permanent, though. And, right now, I hope I never do.

I write in my gratitude journal daily.

[labug]

I really don't want to derail my own thread, but I just need to reply to a few points. I consider myself a feminist and I am deeply sympathetic to the struggles women have faced in the past and those that they continue to face today. Naturally, I believe in divorce in cases of abuse where the spouse is unable or unwilling to change or domestic violence.

I don't think I was disagreeing as much as I was stating a point of view based on what you wrote and what I know. A bit different maybe from yours but I've never lived as man. I don't know your POV.

Can we agree something is wrong when the divorce rate is as high as it is now? I hope so, because why else are we here?

Is it sad that the D rate is that high? Yes. Is there something wrong? Yes, and I think there a many societal factors that influence that, gender roles being one.

I'm here because I needed support from people who had a similar viewpoint about their individual marriages, not as a statement about M or D in general. In the time I've been here, I've seen several sitches where I think D was a good thing. Not my call, tho.

Can we also agree that societal expectations for men have increased instead of societal expectations for women decreasing?

Yes. Do you think the expectations are too high for both genders? I do. We became pioneers and moved away from our kith and kin into places with no social support. Somehow that became the ideal, the thing we should strive for, independence at any cost. Unfortunately the cost was our families. It takes a village to raise a child and it takes communities to support families. We've pretty much lost that.

Can we also agree that these expectations are largely used to sell us things we don't need?

I'm not sure what expectations or products you're talking about but I would say yes, in general, advertising creates myths and we allow ourselves to be persuaded that attaining this myth will make us happy. Of curse the advertisers have just the product that will help us attain that myth. But we all play into that game.

[LBH_LC]

I guess sometimes I think too much about the big picture when I should be focusing on my sitch. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[labug]

I love the book Radical Acceptance, in fact I can see it from where I'm sitting right now. I should probably read it again. I was lucky enough to attend a talk by Tara, along with some other DBers, earlier this year.

I think you and I agree more than we disagree.

[LBH_LC]

I think so, too!

[labug]

It's been a huge step in my growth as a person to realize that 2 people can have very different opinions about things and both are valid.