BC39.....The fight for my marriage continues

[BC39]

My last thread got locked

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2376850&page=1

[BC39]

IMHO, I've seen it work both ways. I've seen the LBS detach and separate from the WAS and have the WAS both come back and also some thought they liked being single and free and hooked up with someone else.

The biggest thing that happens when a WAS decides to come back is exactly that. They make a conscience choice. They make the choice to do whatever it takes to work on the M. Fear of losing the LBS may open the door but it's not enough to sustain the relationship in the long run.

You are going to have to see how it feels in your sitch. The fact that your W told you honestly how she felt is a big thing. It shows that she's actually searching for an answer for why she feels so empty inside. The problem is that she's constantly looking for EXTERNAL things to make her feel whole when in reality, SHE herself is the only one that can fill that void. It's a choice. If she actually stopped and turned around to see you and your family and actually appreciated what she has, she will see that her life is very rich. But she's still looking elsewhere.

This ^^^ has really stuck with me. It's my current sitch in a nutshell.

Any suggestions on how/if I can help her look internally?

I've read and watched some great stuff on passion vs comfort in LTR. Should I have my W read/watch them?

===========================

I've found myself flip flopping a lot lately

I wake up some mornings and decide I'm going to continue showing W affection etc

then the very next day I pull back and detach

Probably not a great approach. I'm pretty confused what to be doing these days...

[MrBond]

"Any suggestions on how/if I can help her look internally? "

You can't. You are still trying to look for a way to control her.

What you CAN do is possibly look into ways that would pique her interest in you. If can possibly seduce her in a way that she starts being proactive in engaging with her, that would be best because it would be HER choice.

Seduce her slowly and see what happens. There are different ways to do it, you just have to read up and see what works. Again, follow the DB principles by doing something and seeing if it has a positive reaction from her after a couple of weeks. If it doesn't, then move on to something else.

[AnotherStander]

Any suggestions on how/if I can help her look internally?

If you saw someone that was participating in a marathon, would you drive up alongside them and ask them if they wanted a ride to the finish line? Your W is on her own personal journey. The fastest way for her to reach the finish line is if you don't interfere. Give her time and space.

[lovethehub]

I'm overwhelmed and confused.

I understand everything your saying in theory but my emotions may be blocking rationale.... because all I think about at the moment is my W just said her current perception of our biggest problems are

1) all we have is surface conversation (emotional connection)

and because of that (amongst other things) there's no passion.

So instead of trying "fix" the surface convo (by having more meaningful conversations) I should be doing more of the same?

She changed her tune pretty quickly during that talk from "I hate talking about this" to "I'm so glad we're talking about this and it makes me feel better". Then we went home had S and shared some intimacy.....should I not be doing more of that for a while?

Retro is actually coming to our area next month. I'm a little apprehensive on suggesting it since W said last week she's currently in a place that she "doesn't feel like working on M at the moment" and "doesn't like talking about it" and "doesn't think MC would be currently beneficial".

Of course you are confused! One day she is telling you why things aren't working and you want to approach that and the next she "doesn't feel like working on M at the moment". You can't win in this situation because whatever you do it will be wrong to your WAW. One day she (most likely) truly wants to work on the M, or maybe she doesn't but when you act a certain way it seems like a good idea to her, then you turn around and she is headed back out the door. This is the confusion of the WAS. This is why we are suggesting you detach. If you are in, she keeps changing her mind and feels it is okay to do so. However, you can't fake detaching and being done. She will know when you are truly done and then she will decide what she wants. She might decide earlier, but it doesn't appear like she is any hurry to make a real choice or to put any effort in.

Anyway, I have no doubt retro would be helpful.

It will be helpful if she wants to work on the M.

She is the distancer, and you will find yourself locked in the pursuer/distancer dance which can go on for years. You will feel like you're getting barely enough and will feel undervalued and she will feel unfulfilled -- I hope I'm wrong, but if she's not bought in I don't see pursuing connection as the cure.

Remember, these are all just opinions based on personal situations and reading other stories. With that said, I couldn't agree more. H and I did this dance for 5 years...I was the distancer. It didn't end until he got fed up. That doesn't mean it always works out once LBS gets fed up and becomes WAS, just an example..

The biggest thing that happens when a WAS decides to come back is exactly that. They make a conscience choice. They make the choice to do whatever it takes to work on the M. Fear of losing the LBS may open the door but it's not enough to sustain the relationship in the long run.

This ^^^ has really stuck with me. It's my current sitch in a nutshell.

Any suggestions on how/if I can help her look internally?

Like Bond said, you cannot control this. Don't even try! Follow db, you can only control yourself and your actions.

I've read and watched some great stuff on passion vs comfort in LTR. Should I have my W read/watch them?

Don't ask her to read anything, she has just stated that she doesn't feel like working on the M. At some point, when she has both feet, her head and her heart in the game, you can say "I read this and I thought you might find it interesting". Until then, read for you and you only.

I've found myself flip flopping a lot lately

I wake up some mornings and decide I'm going to continue showing W affection etc

then the very next day I pull back and detach

Probably not a great approach. I'm pretty confused what to be doing these days...

You are right, this is not a great approach. Take some time to yourself to think about what is best for you and then stick with that approach. I can't remember now how long this has been going on but I do know that when my H was finally done and I read DR and backed off to give him space it worked to my benefit. I finally left the fight or flight mode I had been in for years and this is what allowed me to really see the sitch from an outside perspective. I don't know if you feel this way but if you are always either trying to smooth things over or waiting for the other shoe to drop it can be helpful to take time away. (And probably helpful in a lot of other situations, too!)

If you saw someone that was participating in a marathon, would you drive up alongside them and ask them if they wanted a ride to the finish line? Your W is on her own personal journey. The fastest way for her to reach the finish line is if you don't interfere. Give her time and space.

I love this.

[Accuray]

Lovethehub, I really appreciate your perspective and what you're able to share with all of us. Is the hub a Boston reference?

[BC39]

Thanks LTH, as Accuray said your perspective is very much appreciated.

Random scattered thoughts:

Most of my confusion is based around what approach I should be taking. Most of the many other threads I've read on this board seem to revolve around having patience in this circumstance, not detaching.

I understand that some of the things W said 2 weeks ago we're alarming. "didn't think she was afraid to lose me", "didn't feel like working on the M". But she said she's confused.

She only started to pull back 2 1/2 months ago. Before that everything was going well. There were many mornings I woke up and thought to myself "we've made it to the other side".

W wrote me this letter just 6 months previous to pulling back.

I’ve been trying to find a deeper, and maybe a more meaningful way to tell you I’m sorry. But I know it’s an endless search. There’s only one way, and it’s in my actions. This is why I’m writing you this letter. I’ve crumbled our wall of trust, now for a second time. I realize that we’re starting all over again, brick by brick to rebuild it. I know it won’t be easy, but I promise I will put 100% into it. I’m so sorry for making you hurt and feel the way you are. I’ve been completely selfish, and for some reason I felt entitled to it. I blame myself, and regret not trying as hard as you have been. I’m not sure how I thought we could get better, if I wasn’t committing myself entirely to the process. I never want you to feel silly, ashamed, embarrassed, disappointed, or broken-hearted. And yet, I’ve managed to do so twice.
I know that you will be sensitive to everything I do, and that time is needed. If I want this to work, I need to promise you I’ll be patient. (BC39) I promise I’ll be patient and understanding. I struggle with my fears, but I know I have to put them aside if I want the mortar to stick in our wall. I will be accountable to you.
I want for you to tell me what you need. I will allow you to be vulnerable with me, and I with you. I promise to reassure you time and time again that I am in this. I will do whatever it takes.
I Love You

What she told me during our convo 2 weeks ago obviously contradict this.

Since that convo she seems to be making more of an effort.

I'm getting hugs and kisses with a couple unprompted "I love you" 's when saying goodbye. We still get along great, spend a lot of time together going out and having fun. We laugh a lot. We're still best friends as we always have been. (That why I almost don't believe she doesn't fear losing me)

All of her issues are based around her perception of attraction/connection/intimacy. Can you give me some specifics on how you think detaching would help that? I understand that space may help her miss me, but as Bond said " Fear of losing the LBS may open the door but it's not enough to sustain the relationship in the long run".

I haven't swept anything under the rug. If she does anything that bothers me I tell her. And she has actually done the same, which is good for her.

Our normal routine when I can tell something is bothering her is me asking "is something wrong" to which she usually replies with some form of "no", even know its obvious there is. So I usually ask her another couple times over the span of a day or two before she actually tells me. Its kind of her MO to get frazzled and runaway when she upset. She seems to be doing better with that.

I believe the talk we had a couple weeks ago really helped.

She seems to be sharing more with me. She's even made a couple comments that would lead me to believe she was actually looking internally.

I believe it made her feel safe talking to me and relieved some of the pressure.

On another note our work situation has been a major added stessor in our sitch. (We've co-owned a business together with my parents since we we're married 11 years ago) We've been trying to figure out how to transition her out while still being okay financially.

I've been working on a plan the past week, that will allow her to leave and we'll still be okay financially. It will allow her to focus solely on her new business she started. All our income will be coming from me.

I told W yesterday that I finalized the plan with my parents and she will be able to leave within a few months.

She's quite relieved. We'll see if our helps our sitch any.

Anyway, I believe W is going through some sort of mid-life or quarter-life crisis.

As Bond said, things won't change until she starts looking internally.

Is that not going to require patience rather than detaching?

[Accuray]

My take on it is that the challenge is that you're looking to be "taking an approach" at all. If you "take an approach" or "employ a strategy" you'll be looking for it to pay off in some way. The dynamics surrounding your expectations put pressure on the relationship.

I think your best course of action here is just to live, just to be yourself. Don't try to be something you're not, don't force your actions. If, however, there are things about you that you don't like, then change them, regardless of how W responds. There's a difference between trying to be something you're not versus changing yourself, one is a temporary ruse and one is a commitment.

When you talk about "taking an approach," that implies to me the temporary route.

I believe that your mindset has to shift. You need to address whatever it is about you that you feel needs to be addressed. Once you've got a handle on that, then you live your life.

If your W is not contributing to the marriage what you need her to contribute, then you discuss that with her, offer to work with her to make that better.

She can either engage with you, or she will not. If she doesn't, then you are in a marriage that does not fulfill YOU, and you need to decide what you're going to do about that.

Rather than focusing on W's issues with feeling craving and attraction, and trying to fix that for her, focus on what *you* need as half of this relationship.

Marriages need balance to survive.

Acc

[MrBond]

So what else have YOU been trying specifically?

[labug]

Just repeating what Acc said for emphasis:

My take on it is that the challenge is that you're looking to be "taking an approach" at all. If you "take an approach" or "employ a strategy" you'll be looking for it to pay off in some way. The dynamics surrounding your expectations put pressure on the relationship.

I think your best course of action here is just to live, just to be yourself. Don't try to be something you're not, don't force your actions. If, however, there are things about you that you don't like, then change them, regardless of how W responds. There's a difference between trying to be something you're not versus changing yourself, one is a temporary ruse and one is a commitment.