I don't think I can pour out the whole story right now. I feel like every detail is paramount and regurgitating every event and detail of the past two and half months would take about that long but here is my best attempt at the "short" story. I'm 45 my wife is 33, we have a 7 year old Daughter. We have been married for 9 years and together about 12. I took my beautiful, smart, and wonderful wife for granted. I emotionally abused her with a controlling personality that I did not know I had. I “bullied, talked down to, ignored, yelled at, guilted, humiliated, disrespected and left her places” (from an email she sent me) I have not been a good husband. I emotionally abandoned my best friend and I am profoundly embarrassed, ashamed and disgusted with myself for ever letting this happen. This is not to say this is how I have acted all the time. We have had tremendous great times and heaps of fun over our year together but after leaving her “emotionally neglected and vulnerable” she found someone who gave her “positive feelings of love, appreciation, respect and admiration”. I start my story this way so that it is clear from the beginning that over the past few months I have learned much about the damage I did to this marriage and that I take the lion's share of responsibility of that damage up to before what came next. Sometime around May 29, 2013 she detached from me and made herself available to someone else. I noticed her pull away and immediately I tried to talk to her about it one night. She did not say a word and I lost my temper. Finally she said I was paranoid. I did start to change and started spending more time with her and our family but in her own words later, “it was too little, too late”. From what I knew, at this point there was just someone else that was giving her attention not a full blown affair but I knew something was wrong. We continued as usual but I became hyper aware of her subtle and unusual new behaviors. A week later after my wife returned from a business trip I could sense even more of a change. I tried to ignore it but I was beginning to panic. After she fell asleep one night I decided to snoop through her phone. Instantly I found text messages from another man of a sexual nature. I did not read them twice before I woke her up and confronted her about it. She said that she had met someone on her trip and they had kissed. (6/5/13) I felt like I had been hit by a truck. At first she was indifferent. Normally I would totally blow up at something like this but all I could do was stand there. I think this confused her a little. We talked a little about next steps but I was in shock. I went to the couch and somehow she fell back asleep. My world had just been turned upside down and I could not breath. Sometime in the middle of the night she woke up and came out to talk. I “heard” (meaning for the first time I listened) to her grievances and was shocked that it was me, the one who truly loved my wife, who did and said such horrible things. I vowed to change and there was an agreement that we would work on our marriage. She vowed that nothing else would happen between her and the OM. Over the next few weeks I tried desperately try to have more “relationship talks” but it did not go well. I was also completely consumed with trying to find anything and everything I could find out about this other person and if there was any more contact. My wife does not like talking about problems and she had very little interest in talking about them then. But we are at least talking a little and I started working less and trying to be more available. I saw we needed more time together and tried to schedule dates. I sat with her when she was making dinner and we talked about our days. “too little too late”... In these weeks she also changed the password on her phone so I could no longer snoop. I also noticed that her phone became more valuable that a briefcase full of money. It went with her everywhere! and she never put it down. I naively think she needs her space and did not bring it up. There were so many strange things that were going on that I could not keep track of what was normal and what was strange, but all the while she emphatically and passionately insists that they were no longer in contact. 7/10/13 I can not ignore all of the very strange and unusual behavior she is having. Working late, the phone thing and her strange behavior towards me. I have not been able to sleep at all lately and again after she is asleep I go and have a look at her phone. The password is disabled and there is a text from him again. It is clearly sexual in nature. I take the phone into the other room and pretending to be her, respond to his texts. Over the next two hours he is texting me thinking it is her and telling me all of their secrets. It is no longer just a kiss. They are having a full blown affair and they just had sex that night before she came home late from work and was intimate with me. I just can’t believe it. I have been trying to change and to offer her what was missing from our relationship. but “too little too late”. I put her phone back and thought that I should let them figure it all out the next day but I couldn’t take it and confronted her again in the middle of the night. Again we talk the rest of the night and agree we need some counseling but she again very passionately and convincingly swears the affair will end. I want to believe her and again I foolishly do. I set up appointments with a counselor and we both go to two individual sessions. Neither of us like him at all and can not see how he could help but I fear bad counseling is better than none but she says she is not going back. I do find another counselor but at the same time I start to do all of the wrong things; talk about good times, promise to change, tell her I love her too much, ask for constant feedback, look at wedding photos and try to talk about the relationship too much. What makes things really confusing is throughout this entire process we have had more sex in the past month that we have the entire year. I take this as we are getting closer but I found out it is mostly guilt sex she is having with me and it is even overlapping with the OM (yuck). I feverishly start researching affairs and consult marriage sites such as this one looking for advice. Most information and books are for “after the affair” and how to rebuild but I’m in panic mode. We are in the middle of this disaster and I can’t find a way out without ending it and devastating our daughter. I love her and our family and hate myself for ever pushing her so far away. I started seeing the new counselor and he quickly identify my problem controlling behavior. I did some reasearch and was horrified at what I now saw in the mirror. I grew up with horrible parents who were horrible husbands and wives and now I am one of them even though from as far back as I can remember I swore I would never be like them. I never thought I would be about to get a divorce and my heart breaks for my daughter who will by no fault of her own be permanently and negatively affected by all of our horrible actions. The pattern continued several more times. My wife would promise (so convincingly) that she would end the affair, or even worse, swear that it was already over and that I was just paranoid just for me to find out that she was lying. She now carefully deletes all of her texts and call records and I have done several ridiculous new things to try to find the “truth”. I have put a recorder in her car and listed to the two of them laugh at me and say such things as “we have made it pretty obvious why does he even care” (and even listend to them make out in her car). I have put spyware on her phone and watched ever passionate and loving text between the two of them. At each turn I get caught and she finds better ways to conceal her relationship but now she does not say it’s over anymore or that she is going to end it. She says she is confused and although I have told you most of the bad things I have done I have also been making strong efforts to change for the better and much of it comes very easily. I already love and respect my wife so showing her that has been very easy. Spending time with her and listening to her has also been very easy and enjoyable. These good changes are making it hard for her and we genuinely make occasional connections. I know I have a heap of work to do on my personality issues and I know she is very skeptical as to whether any of the changes will stick so in the meantime she is not willing to commit to anything and we go along in limbo. No commitment to stay and no decision to leave. I have now found this site and read through many of your experiences and read much of your advice. It is nice to know I am not alone as I go through what is by far the worst period in my life. I have bought and have started to read the DR book. I did skip ahead to the chapter and pages regarding a spouse that will not end the affair and it has made me feel hopeless. I have begun to DR last week but I don’t clearly understand the techniques especially in regard to how I should be carrying out the rules with a spouse that will not leave the OM. As of now I have stopped snooping and removed and ended all spying activity. (wow is this hard to do) We are going to counseling and she says she wants to go. She has sent a long email explaining her feeling and how conflicted she is and how fearful that “the hurt that has been done is now so damaging, it is impossible to recover from.”. When have been together over the past week (and even the past two months) she has been very caring at times. She reaches out to touch me and I can see light in her eyes but at the same time I know she is texting him right in front of me or going to the bathroom to do so telling him of her love for him. I could really use any advice on how to DR in my situation with a wife that will not stop her affair. How should I act? I understand I should be the better choice if she had to make one but It is really hard for me. I am terrible at hiding my emotions. Should I let her get close? Should we still have sex? Should we still do things together? I feel like a doormat accepting and enabling her to continue her affair with a smile on my face. She is having this passionate physical love affair and then she comes home to me and our family as a safe comfortable place. I could really use some help on something specific. I am currently away on a business trip and in our last counseling session a few days ago she said she did not want any contact with me while I was gone. She admitted to how relieved she was that I was going away and looked forward to the space. I was not gone a half hour and she texted me. Then they continued through the day. I tried not to respond but thought that would be seen as negative behavior and push her away. She said she missed me... WHAT THE HELL!!! I said I missed her and my daughter both but that I thought she did not want any contact. She responded that she just didn’t want to talk about the relationship but that we could talk about how our days were and about our daughter. First thing the next morning, more texts with a good morning and hope you have a good day. Later she said “is it ok that I tell you I’m thinking about you” How do I respond to that??? What do the DR rules say at times like this. Should I have no contact except for our daughter? Please help! I do have a DR counseling apt scheduled in two days but any help would be greatly appreciated.
M-44 W-33 Daughter 7 M-9 D-Day 1 (06/08/2013) texts found D-Day 2 (07/10/2013) more texts found
second, read "Divorce Remedy" by Michele Weiner Davis, and think about how you can apply those principles to your situation. especially doing 180's, avoid cheeseless tunnels, and GAL (getting a life). (this last one will help you in carrying out the 37 rules.)
don't expect everything to be fine right away! it takes time. just as it took time to get into this situation, it will also take time to get out. don't let that discourage you. just keep doing the right things and you *can* fix your marriage.
Originally Posted By: sw-1234
she just didn't want to talk about the relationship but that we could talk about how our days were and about our daughter. First thing the next morning, more texts with a good morning and hope you have a good day. Later she said "is it ok that I tell you I'm thinking about you." How do I respond to that??? What do the DR rules say at times like this. Should I have no contact except for our daughter?
this is very encouraging! I would not pursue her but would respond in a friendly way to this. you need to show her (again without pursuing her) that you, her daughter's father, are a better man than OM.
Originally Posted By: sw-1234
I do have a DR counseling apt scheduled in two days but any help would be greatly appreciated.
good luck, the DB coaches are great and will be able to give you further specific tips.
too trusting Thank you very much for the support and suggestions. I have been doing my best to follow the "rules" for a little over a week. Some are much harder to follow through with than others but it is getting easier slowly.
I have read up to the 5th chapter of DR and the sections regarding infidelity. I realize that if I want to do Everything I can to save this marriage, I have a very long and difficult road a head of myself.
I knew I needed to GAL before finding DB and I am on my third week of working out. I will continue to find new things to do to help regain my self respect.
M-44 W-33 Daughter 7 M-9 D-Day 1 (06/08/2013) texts found D-Day 2 (07/10/2013) more texts found
I could really use any advice on how to DR in my situation with a wife that will not stop her affair. How should I act? I understand I should be the better choice if she had to make one but It is really hard for me. I am terrible at hiding my emotions. Should I let her get close? Should we still have sex? Should we still do things together? I feel like a doormat accepting and enabling her to continue her affair with a smile on my face. She is having this passionate physical love affair and then she comes home to me and our family as a safe comfortable place. I could really use some help on something specific.
Well, I would start by pretty much NOT doing what you've been doing so far, I'm sorry to say. Your passive-aggressive approach (spying, confronting, and yet still pursuing her and even having sex with her) is NOT a good way to DB.
For starters, I hope to God you are using protection if you are still having sex with her? You are risking your own health here, and I hope you are being smart about this.
Even if you are (using protection), you are still saying with your actions "I am OK with this; I am willing to live in an open marriage." Your wife continues to carry on her affair for the same reason dogs lick themselves (sorry to be so blunt, but I'm trying to get your attention here).
A woman caught up in affair is basically waffling back and forth between three options:
1. Leave my husband, and go be with my affair partner.
2. End my affair, and go back and work on my marriage with my husband.
3. Continue my affair, expressing occasional remorse and false promises to end it, keeping my husband as "Plan B."
What you need to do is take Choice #3 off the table.
Your story struck me because it was almost exactly six years ago to the date that I learned of MY wife's affair (I found out about it on May 27th). I'm happy to report that we DID reconcile our marriage, and have since enjoyed our 25th wedding anniversary, our 50th birthdays, and the birth of our granddaughter, and today our marriage is very strong.
You still have a shot here, but you've got to stop leading with your EMOTIONS, and instead come up with a PLAN. You are smothering her with your pursuit and snooping and confronting, and then supplicating her by having sex with her. You're all over the map (most of us are when in our sitch).
She reaches out to touch me and I can see light in her eyes but at the same time I know she is texting him right in front of me or going to the bathroom to do so telling him of her love for him.
I would recommend that you start with this. ^^^ Time to learn how to establish (and enforce) a simple BOUNDARY:
"I hope you aren't texting another man right in front of me. That would be incredibly disrespectful to me and to our marriage. I can't force you to remain married to me, you are a grown woman. But I damned sure aren't going to have you text your boyfriend right in front of me, from inside our marital home. If you want to do that, you can take it out in the yard."
She reaches out to touch me and I can see light in her eyes but at the same time I know she is texting him right in front of me or going to the bathroom to do so telling him of her love for him.
I would recommend that you start with this. ^^^ Time to learn how to establish (and enforce) a simple BOUNDARY:
"I hope you aren't texting another man right in front of me. That would be incredibly disrespectful to me and to our marriage. I can't force you to remain married to me, you are a grown woman. But I damned sure aren't going to have you text your boyfriend right in front of me, from inside our marital home. If you want to do that, you can take it out in the yard."
Who pays for her cellphone?
Starsky
Oops -- missed the part where you had a 7 year old daughter. Even better to say "to me, to our marriage and to our family"
As Starsky knows, I am not in favor of anything that smacks of punitive measures. IT's good to get different opinions. He and I often disagree.
But if I were in your shoes, I think the suggestions about the texts while you are around, are clearly needed. I was not aware she was doing it in front of you.
Also something more constructive than meek MC has to be done. Many mc's are more like divorce counselors b/c they are not solution based like Div Busting is. They focus on the past and rehash the pain of it. That usually fuels the partner who wants out, to leave. But you can find a solution based MC if you ask. Check to see if they have read or adopted any DB principles.
And in fairness to your w, you were an admitted jerk of a h. Short of physical abuse, you sound very difficult and you admit to being uber controlling. I can tell.
The level of snooping and confronting you do, in the middle of the night b/c you cannot control yourself, is more of the same.
A man in charge of HIS emotions, is attractive. A man who does NOT try to control others, (or wake them up again b/c he's freaking out again) b/c he is confident in his choices, is attractive. If you want to show her that you can change, CHANGE.
I highly recommend you attend Retrovaille. It's a marriage retreat for marriages in trouble. PLEASE look it up. IT did wonders for my m and many others. Of the 25 troubled couples in our retreat, 21 or 22 are still together.
That is amazing since 8 of them were planning on divorcing when they attended, and most of the rest of us were considering it. There are two reasons I see hope in your situation.
First, you SOUND willing to work on YOU, and capable of forgiving her in time, b/c you know you played a huge role in her choices. Begin that work.
Second, she is NOT telling YOU that "OM is the real love of her life" AND OR that she wants out of the marriage...yet.
So you have time. Use that GIFT WELL. Be a man only a fool would leave.
PS if you have the funds, hire a DB coach. I had one who was a Godsend. I think I ended up having about 15 sessions. It was cheaper than divorce.
Yes I tolerated more than I ever expected to, for longer, and I made some major changes in ME and how I react and see things...
but it worked. I am a better person for it, a better mother and a better wife.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Well, I would start by pretty much NOT doing what you've been doing so far, I'm sorry to say. Your passive-aggressive approach (spying, confronting, and yet still pursuing her and even having sex with her) is NOT a good way to DB.
[/color]I found this site just short of two weeks ago. One of the first posts I found was from 25yearsmlc who had posted "The Rules". I immediately removed the spyware from her phone and told her that I had. I have promised not to spy or snoop anymore but this is truly one of the hardest rules to follow for me.
For starters, I hope to God you are using protection if you are still having sex with her? You are risking your own health here, and I hope you are being smart about this.
Even if you are (using protection), you are still saying with your actions "I am OK with this; I am willing to live in an open marriage." Your wife continues to carry on her affair for the same reason dogs lick themselves (sorry to be so blunt, but I'm trying to get your attention here).
[color:#FF0000]I agree! But... When she starts to act "normal" and we reconnect all the anger melts away. I feel close to her and at the same time do not want to push her away. And... Lack of sex has been one of my complaints in the marriage ever since my daughter was born. Now all of a sudden I'm getting more sex than I have since we were newlyweds. This does not mean that I disagree with your advise, I just want to be sure I go about this the right way and if I tell her we are not going to have sex anymore I want it to somehow be positive, not me coming across as controlling or more of a jerk.
A woman caught up in affair is basically waffling back and forth between three options:
1. Leave my husband, and go be with my affair partner.
2. End my affair, and go back and work on my marriage with my husband.
3. Continue my affair, expressing occasional remorse and false promises to end it, keeping my husband as "Plan B."
What you need to do is take Choice #3 off the table.
[/color]I do agree but I am very unsure how to go about this constructively. I think I have found positive results from the DB Rules that I have started and do not want to take steps backwards by being demanding, or controlling. At the same time most of what I have learned including what my DB Coach explained is that this is a slow process and she will not be willing to make any immediate changes to save the marriage anytime soon. I'm trying to get the best DB advise I can in regard to my situation.
Your story struck me because it was almost exactly six years ago to the date that I learned of MY wife's affair (I found out about it on May 27th). I'm happy to report that we DID reconcile our marriage, and have since enjoyed our 25th wedding anniversary, our 50th birthdays, and the birth of our granddaughter, and today our marriage is very strong.
[color:#FF0000]Congratulations! It is success stories like yours that keeps me going.
You still have a shot here, but you've got to stop leading with your EMOTIONS, and instead come up with a PLAN. You are smothering her with your pursuit and snooping and confronting, and then supplicating her by having sex with her. You're all over the map (most of us are when in our sitch).
[color:#FF0000][/color]So True! I am all over the map for sure. One minute I want to end it because the pain is too much, the next I find inspiration to keep trying. I totally realize that I need to be consistent but it is much easier said than done. I hope to post a few more details of where we are and what I am doing and look forward to hearing your continued advise.
Starsky [/quote]
M-44 W-33 Daughter 7 M-9 D-Day 1 (06/08/2013) texts found D-Day 2 (07/10/2013) more texts found
She reaches out to touch me and I can see light in her eyes but at the same time I know she is texting him right in front of me or going to the bathroom to do so telling him of her love for him.
I would recommend that you start with this. ^^^ Time to learn how to establish (and enforce) a simple BOUNDARY:
"I hope you aren't texting another man right in front of me. That would be incredibly disrespectful to me and to our marriage. I can't force you to remain married to me, you are a grown woman. But I damned sure aren't going to have you text your boyfriend right in front of me, from inside our marital home. If you want to do that, you can take it out in the yard."
[/color]I have been trying to figure out exactly how to do this but not having too much luck as I think it through. My big problem is in regard to the "enforce" part. I have no leverage to enforce anything. And I am afraid that making any demands would be seen as more of the same controlling behavior that got me into this mess. Any advise on how to do this a bit softer?
Who pays for her cellphone?
[color:#FF0000]Her phone is paid for by her company.
Starsky
Oops -- missed the part where you had a 7 year old daughter. Even better to say "to me, to our marriage and to our family"
M-44 W-33 Daughter 7 M-9 D-Day 1 (06/08/2013) texts found D-Day 2 (07/10/2013) more texts found
b/c you cannot control yourself, is more of the same.