NEW LIFE / NEW ME

[hotwheelsaust]

Doing good F. Keep it up, keep asking questions.

[sandi2]

Oh good, I am relieved to know it was miscommunication.

I'm sorry if this is causing confusion or frustration for you. That is not what I wanted to do. You may have to think of yourself entering a different "phase" of DBing. Some of the former advice may not be what you need to do at the present time, so it needs to be "tweaked" a bit.

From what I am seeing you say about validation, you relate it with the persona you present to your W. if I am incorrect, please straighten it out for me.

The way I understand validation, is it is something you say or do to cause the other person to feel that their words are valid, and that their actions are valid, their feelings are valid, and so on. In other words, you are assuring them that they have a right for whatever they say, do, or feel. My dictionary define validation as declaring something legal.

When she was living under your roof and you were trying to show her you were "awaken" by her BD, it was fine to validate to a point. But somewhere along time, some have began blurring the lines of what validation means, IMHO. But anyway, she is not living in your home and she has made decisions you do not agree with her about it. The two of you are not man & wife legally. I do not believe you should wrack your brain trying to find something to "validate" her, just to make her feel good about what she's done. Like I said before, keep focused on the level this R is in at the present time. It has shifted.
Do not confuse a compliment or a nice gester or a friendly personality with giving her validation. Maybe you should not worry about the word "validate" for the time being, since it seems a little confusing. I think some people pass that word along in DBing posts....and do not know the definition, I was here when it started being passed around, and it's still going.

""I am confused about how to act when I speak to her and meet her!
I get the few words and the being kind but could you write more about this issue?
What about the 37 rules – are they also gone? Do I need a new set of rules?"

Maybe you should forget the word "validate" for the time being, since it adds confusion. Okay?

How to speak to her and meet her: Nicely, politely, friendly, curtious..........as if she was someone you just met. You don't try to keep her engaged in a conversation, but you graciously answer her questions (that concern the children or joint property). In other words, it is like a business arrangement. You are nice, smile, polite, etc., but you don't care to spend any time with them. If you see yourself getting pulled in a chatty talk, you graciously end it.

This seems very odd to conduct yourself with a woman you have lived with and had your children. You will feel like you are an actor in a play. It will seem strange. It will not be what your emotions want. You understand that, right? You will come back here and tell me that's just not "you" and you will have to do it "your way" (whatever that is). But if you can stick it out, you will begin to feel better (according to reports from previous LBH's). It will give you strength to pull back emotionally and really begin enjoying life apart from your W.

While you are enjoying life apart from her, she will be going through a lot of "stuff" of her own. Oh, I'm sure she will present a happy face to everyone. Her pride will carry her along for a while. But she will be watching you and wanting to know what you are doing and why you aren't interested in being chums with her.

Now, I am not telling you to discuss the R with her, when I make the following statement, okay? She will ask you what's going on that you suddenly don't have time for to talk (or whatever). So, in order to keep her being extremely angry, I believe you should tell her in as few sentences as possible, that you always wanted a relationship with her that was set apart from the category called "friends". However, since she made her decision to leave that relationship, you must move forward to make a life without her. Be very careful at this point b/c it could easily slip into a R talk, and you can't let it go there. Tell her you don't want to talk about that now.

I think she will tell you that she will always want you to be apart of her and the kids' life. That is when you look deep in her eyes and say, "I intend to always be a part of my children's life. However, you and I will not be sharing family times with the kids. That is what separation is. Living seperate lives."

She may throw a bunch of teary-eyed emotional junk at you, but remain firm. When she tells you, "Can't we be friends?". You softly tell her no. You wanted to be more than a friend, but she didn't b/c she left. (This keeps the focus on her decision to leave.). Don't let her start with something like, "Well, you always............". Hold up your and in "stop" signal. Tell her, "we aren't going to rehash the past right now. Let's just leave this talk where it is for now.". Then tell her bye and leave, hang up, or whatever. But I think this does not need to be said in an email or TM. It is important that she see your face, or at lest, hear your voice. Do you agree?

The difficult part for you will be keeping it short. You may want to tell her to not hesitate if she needs to contact you about the girls. (That pushes your point a little deeper.)

The next time you speak to her over the phone, or see her at the door while exchanging the kids, you always appear happy. Give the kids lots of hugs and kisses. Hold your hand up in a little wave at her and say, "Well, see ya.". Then you leave, with the smile still on your face......as if you are exited to get somewhere.

Some may call it game playing. I call it knowing how women think! She is seeing you looking good and acting upbeat, and thinking to herself, "have I really lost him?".

It will take a long time before she is convinced you won't come around when she invites you. You will see various emotions in her. She has to experience the bad part of her decision to break up her family. She thought she could have you on her terms, her time, her calendar date, be her assistant in child care, and a friend to tell her troubles to. It will be a shock to her emotional system when she sees her fantasy plans crumble. After she has been force to do without her cake eating, then she will begin to doubt her decision and began looking more at what she lost as a result of that decision.

There should not be anything complicated about how you act around her, b/c you won't be around her except a couple of minutes at time, right? And if she calls and starts talking about something that does not refer to the kids, then you say, "I don't want to be rude, but I really have to go now". And if she is dumb enough to ask why.........then just give a soft little chuckle at her and say, "Bye W (whatever her name is.). She may get little huffed about it, but I can almost promise you she will be curious, which is another English word for "interested".

There are various stages she has to go through, and it takes a long time. That is why you must not watch her activity on social networking, or read emails about her problems or job, etc. (apart from the kids).

[T1000]

"I would validate to show that I am understanding guy. I understand that things are different but you told me to be pleasant when I talk to her – I believe validating adds to pleasant – am I wrong?

I am confused about how to act when I speak to her and meet her!
I get the few words and the being kind but could you write more about this issue?
What about the 37 rules – are they also gone? Do I need a new set of rules?"

I'm not trying to answer for Sandi in anyway but I understand where your coming from F and would like to give input.

Other than No.25 being one that might be difficult to apply with what you have been told really your just not being rude:

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

What else is there on the list that doesn't fit what you need to do? The list is more about what not to do than anything else and I believe they still apply to you.

It's not easy speaking to W in a different way.
The way I tied to look at it was like asking for directions. The person your asking is a stranger and you would be generally pleasant, polite and nice. You wouldn't talk to them about their feelings and validate them and you wouldn't agree to pay their car bill or go to a concert with them.
If they got knocked over by a cyclist you would help them up, if they had toothache you wouldn't take them to the dentist.

@Sandi
Would you prefer other newcomers or semi-newcomers like myself stay out of things like this to not confuse F in case the advice could be wrong?
It's hard to ignore something on here when you I to reply to but if it's doing more bad than good then should we stay out of it?

[T1000]

lol
Looks like Sandi was on with it anyway.

[back56]

Thank you F, and Sandi. The dialog between the two of you has been very helpful for me. I am one month post divorce, and have needed to make (in Sandi's words) a sharp turn in how I am interacting with my ex. I realize, of course there may be some slight differences as my ex is H, and male, not female and Sandi is giving advice on the mind of the female, but I think there are many similarities that I can draw from and i greatly appreciate the detail she is describing. I know it seems weird, (in my case 30 years with my exH) to go back to the rules of "courting 101" and all the nuances associated with it, and not hanging on for dear life when the other party has given the signal that they are not interested in the relationship. Maybe our struggle with it is just because it IS so basic......I seem to want to make if more complicated than it really is. At any rate, thank you again for this help, and F, I am right there with you, giving this whole polite, distantly friendly, thing with my ex, a go.

[Fartiltre]

Sandi,

Oh good, I am relieved to know it was miscommunication.

Sandi, I will stick with my words or let you no otherwise! I want to do this and if I should change my mind somewhere down the road you will be the first one to know. I have felt my strength and confidence return over the last month or two and I feel very motivated - I don’t believe this will change to an extent that will make this change of mind happen.

I'm sorry if this is causing confusion or frustration for you. That is not what I wanted to do. You may have to think of yourself entering a different "phase" of DBing. Some of the former advice may not be what you need to do at the present time, so it needs to be "tweaked" a bit.

Got it! I have stopped reading so much in here and if I should pick up a new book it will be about self-development and not love, WAS, divorce or the likes. I do this to avoid getting my spinning head confused.
I will go with your advice and properly have a million questions in the time to come.

From what I am seeing you say about validation, you relate it with the persona you present to your W. if I am incorrect, please straighten it out for me.
The way I understand validation, is it is something you say or do to cause the other person to feel that their words are valid, and that their actions are valid, their feelings are valid, and so on. In other words, you are assuring them that they have a right for whatever they say, do, or feel. My dictionary define validation as declaring something legal.

You are not incorrect!
I would like to add that I also see validation as a way of showing that you care about them, their feelings, their opinions and so on. That’s properly exactly why I have to STOP this now, right?

How to speak to her and meet her: Nicely, politely, friendly, curtious..........as if she was someone you just met. You don't try to keep her engaged in a conversation, but you graciously answer her questions (that concern the children or joint property). In other words, it is like a business arrangement. You are nice, smile, polite, etc., but you don't care to spend any time with them. If you see yourself getting pulled in a chatty talk, you graciously end it.

Got you but what about when she ask about my work, my home, S10, friends or anything else? Do I answer this shortly or do I answer with out saying anything like,
W: How is business these days.
Me: Well, it ok

W: How is the greenhouse doing?
Me: It doing just fine

Like that?

This seems very odd to conduct yourself with a woman you have lived with and had your children. You will feel like you are an actor in a play. It will seem strange. It will not be what your emotions want. You understand that, right?

I understand and I believe it will be difficult acting but if am prepared I can and will do it. I also know from the previous months that everything will get easier and that I will be just fine no matter what the future brings.
The feeling I have right now is more like curiosity of the future, her actions, my capabilities and then off course the end result

You will come back here and tell me that's just not "you" and you will have to do it "your way" (whatever that is). But if you can stick it out, you will begin to feel better (according to reports from previous LBH's). It will give you strength to pull back emotionally and really begin enjoying life apart from your W.

I feel this is my way, so hopefully I won’t tell you otherwise later. I have a lot of joys already and also a lot of problems – none of this has anything to do with W. I wish to enjoy my life with her but as long as she is not here I will work on me and enjoy life anyway. I will have the down-moments but I have gotten so much better at handling these. I do feel I have the strength but then again I do not know what the future will bring in to my life.

While you are enjoying life apart from her, she will be going through a lot of "stuff" of her own. Oh, I'm sure she will present a happy face to everyone. Her pride will carry her along for a while. But she will be watching you and wanting to know what you are doing and why you aren't interested in being chums with her.

I get this totally. It makes so much sense and this alone will keep me on this path! Hopefully it won’t be at the cost of friendships with other people.

Now, I am not telling you to discuss the R with her, when I make the following statement, okay? She will ask you what's going on that you suddenly don't have time for to talk (or whatever). So, in order to keep her being extremely angry, I believe you should tell her in as few sentences as possible, that you always wanted a relationship with her that was set apart from the category called "friends". However, since she made her decision to leave that relationship, you must move forward to make a life without her. Be very careful at this point b/c it could easily slip into a R talk, and you can't let it go there. Tell her you don't want to talk about that now.

OK! I will leave all R-talk even if she initiates.
Is it a goal that she is extremely angry? (I haven’t got a problem with this – just needs clarification)
As I read you, this statement should be on hold until she asks what is going on, right? Always let her initiate since I am happy, content and joyful, right? Change of roles (pursuer/distancer) also, right?
(I just need to understand it since understanding will make it so much easier for me to live and do this!

I think she will tell you that she will always want you to be apart of her and the kids' life. That is when you look deep in her eyes and say, "I intend to always be a part of my children's life. However, you and I will not be sharing family times with the kids. That is what separation is. Living seperate lives."

Got you – no problem! Goes on the list as well!

She may throw a bunch of teary-eyed emotional junk at you, but remain firm. When she tells you, "Can't we be friends?". You softly tell her no. You wanted to be more than a friend, but she didn't b/c she left. (This keeps the focus on her decision to leave.). Don't let her start with something like, "Well, you always............". Hold up your and in "stop" signal. Tell her, "we aren't going to rehash the past right now. Let's just leave this talk where it is for now.". Then tell her bye and leave, hang up, or whatever. But I think this does not need to be said in an email or TM. It is important that she see your face, or at lest, hear your voice. Do you agree?

Totally and I see the roles shifting if this happens. I also agree that she would very likely state these things – I believe it will be a while – she sticks with her beliefs and she is a proud woman! Also believe the part you posted earlier about her coming at me with guilt (Children mostly)

The difficult part for you will be keeping it short. You may want to tell her to not hesitate if she needs to contact you about the girls. (That pushes your point a little deeper.)

I will keep this in mind!
When should I tell her about the children?

She called me twice today but I didn’t answer and since I don’t have VW I don’t know why she called – should I get a VM even though I hate those things?
What if the caller is in fact one of the girls that wishes to talk to me?
Should I call her back tomorrow and just say “Hey, you called – what’s up?”

The next time you speak to her over the phone, or see her at the door while exchanging the kids, you always appear happy. Give the kids lots of hugs and kisses. Hold your hand up in a little wave at her and say, "Well, see ya.". Then you leave, with the smile still on your face......as if you are exited to get somewhere.

I will – this will be quite easy since I have done this since BD. I will be more aware doing this when at friends.

Some may call it game playing. I call it knowing how women think! She is seeing you looking good and acting upbeat, and thinking to herself, "have I really lost him?".

They may call it what ever they like to – this is you helping me doing what I want – this is my choice! I should have played a different game long time ago – now is the right time to change the rules!

It will take a long time before she is convinced you won't come around when she invites you. You will see various emotions in her. She has to experience the bad part of her decision to break up her family. She thought she could have you on her terms, her time, her calendar date, be her assistant in child care, and a friend to tell her troubles to. It will be a shock to her emotional system when she sees her fantasy plans crumble. After she has been force to do without her cake eating, then she will begin to doubt her decision and began looking more at what she lost as a result of that decision.

And this is where the patience comes in play! I believe I have a lot and since my GAL is working I am in fact enjoying my life and days at the moment. When my business and medical issues hopefully are solved in a good way and I am finished renovating I believe I will have the endurance to stick this out.

There should not be anything complicated about how you act around her, b/c you won't be around her except a couple of minutes at time, right?

Agreed, and it will be rare! I won’t pick up the girls at her place and the same goes the other way around. We will see eachother sometimes but right now I think it will be 3-4 times a month. I will make these short if possible. We have a parents meeting at the school in September. I would like to attend and so will she. I believe I should seat myself next to her to avoid people thinking I am strange – What’s your opinion on this?

And if she calls and starts talking about something that does not refer to the kids, then you say, "I don't want to be rude, but I really have to go now". And if she is dumb enough to ask why.........then just give a soft little chuckle at her and say, "Bye W (whatever her name is.). She may get little huffed about it, but I can almost promise you she will be curious, which is another English word for "interested".

Whats a chuckle?
Agree on the rest!
(She has already asked some of these questions about my doings for the last 2-3 weeks – I won’t answer these in the future)

There are various stages she has to go through, and it takes a long time. That is why you must not watch her activity on social networking, or read emails about her problems or job, etc. (apart from the kids).

I won’t defriend her for now, but if needed I will – I believe we will have to take the cultural aspect in to consideration if this is to be done.
Should I do more on FB myself – post pictures and small stories?
(IMO – NO! It will come off as false and she will get her updates from friends anyway)


I will need to go in depth with all of this during the rest of this week since her reaction could come from somewhere between tomorrow and never.

Thanks!! I am, because of your advice, in some funny way looking forward towards the future! Not because of possible R but because my path is clear and that gives me peace in the spinning mind

F

[lionhrt]

Hi,

Sorry to hijack the thread but these posts are proving to be an eye opener for me and am doubting my plan.

Sandi - you gave me some good advice last August/September when I was going through S. I wonder if you have time could you have another look at my sitch as I too seem to be stuck in the 'friend' zone. I did a lot of what you are suggesting initially which served me well. However, I seem to be stuck in the limbo you talk about....albeit my timeline is a bit further on.

Fartiltre - I don't think anyone can add to what Sandi is saying. Good luck.

[Fartiltre]

Sandi,

W just called again - didnt answer but at some point I will have to! This is the third time today.
She will ask why I don't answer her calls - what should I reply to this?

I do not know what she is calling about since she can't leave a message - what to do?

F

F

[MrBond]

"She will ask why I don't answer her calls - what should I reply to this?"

Just tell her you were busy. Period. She doesn't need any complicated explanations.

[swoop]

That, Sandi! She always has the words that make sooooo much sense. Really pay attention to what she has to say!