Believe me, I wasn't that nice during our marriage. I was no doormat, that's for sure. Maybe I'm too nice now, but I honestly don't think I am. Yeah, I was one of those "nice guys" (read: obsequious doormat) back in my high school days, but I luckily outgrew that nonsense in my 20s.
I know sandi2 is a big believer in "act like a man," but to my Gen-X male feminist eyes, she often veers into "women want to be dominated" territory. Now maybe I misunderstand her points, and I welcome correction, but I don't think all women are like that. My W is a very liberated woman and if anything, she probably felt I was too controlling. She said words to that effect in her TRO filing, but a lot of that has to be taken with a large amount of salt. So yeah, I think there is probably some fine-tuning I could do, but I don't think I'm too bad in either direction. Maybe I'm wearing blinders, I don't know.
I think men have it rougher than our fathers and grandfathers in terms of expectations from women. Maybe I am viewing the past through rose-colored glasses, but it seems like as long as they were good providers, they were set. Men nowadays have to be sensitive (but not too sensitive), dress and groom themselves well (but not too well), be a good provider (but don't spend too much time at work), be manly (whatever that is) but don't be too domineering, et cetera. Yeah, I know women have had to put up with similar expectations for much longer, but instead of adjusting expectations for women, it looks like the insecurity publishing complex (you know, Cosmo, etc.) has set its sites on making modern men buy just as insecure about how they measure up against completely arbitrary standards.
As for a 100 lbs, just look at this way: you weren't as big of a fat@ss as me! ;-)
Wonka: You're a strong person for DBing as long as you are. I'm impressed. How long were/are you married?
Ten years. Don't let the length bother you much as it had no relevance when it comes to DBing. We've seen sitches where M have been going on for 35 to 40 years then they've been hit with BD. It varies.
There's tons of hobbies that are free such as hiking, bird watching, book clubs, cheese making clubs, outdoor adventures, meet up, playing chess, Scramble tourneys, etc.
I think men have it rougher than our fathers and grandfathers in terms of expectations from women. Maybe I am viewing the past through rose-colored glasses, but it seems like as long as they were good providers, they were set. Men nowadays have to be sensitive (but not too sensitive), dress and groom themselves well (but not too well), be a good provider (but don't spend too much time at work), be manly (whatever that is) but don't be too domineering, et cetera.
It sure seems that way! And another example- we're expected to be the discipline in the house, but then we get accused of being too controlling because of our discipline. That exact thing has happened to me- I was "too controlling" but OM rides in on a white stallion and W declares to a friend "he treats my kids how I always thought a father should treat them!" Sure, because he didn't have to pick up the pieces after D wrecked her car, or deal with S acting out in school, or teach the kids that money doesn't sprout out of the ground, etc.
Not to mention that it is easy to put on an act for a little while but true personalities will always come through. Why do you think most jobs have a 90 day probation period? Easy to put on a face for a bit... Can't keep it up, though.
Which is also why DBing only works when the changes we make are for real. That is why our WAS do not believe changes.
This is for the OM and the big white horse they ride in on...
“Things turn out best for the people who make the best out of the way things turn out” ― Art Linkletter
I'm going to comment on just one sentence from your post above, Lefty and leave it at that cause i know you guys are just here venting and CAS will say, "It was just a joke!"
Quote:
but it seems like as long as they were good providers,
Women in the past stayed in some very, bad, dangerous marriages because they had no choice. They were tied to men who were "good providers" because they couldn't get jobs that would support their families. In 1966 women made .60 for every dollar that a man earned. (Today we're up to .77) They usually had large families because until the 1960's birth control wasn't widely available. When I started working in 1978, women still had to have their husband's permission to get a tubal ligation.
I know this probably isn't where you intended this to go, but I just had to say I don't miss those good ole days.
Now I'll get out of the locker room.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
